Wong & Owens Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I've gotta agree with tony too. Who really cares what the cubs did... Once again the sox season will be decided in the first few weeks. 2000 --> Sox not predidcted to win division, Fast start, winning gets contagious, Sweep Yanks and Tribe on road, not that great in the second half, Playoffs 2001 --> Sox picked first, Wells aquisition, Slow Start, Frank gets hurt, out of reace early, one of the best teams in the second half 2002 --> Sox picked first, Ritchie aquisition, Slow start, Ritchie gets hurt, out of race early, one of the best teams in second half 2003 --> Sox picked first, Koch aquisition, slow start, Paulie's terrible, Koch's terrible, Frank bat's .267, one of the best teams in the second half, 2004 --> Sox not predicted to win division, Fast start?, winning gets contagious?, Sweep Twinkies in the bubble?, playoffs? That's not entirely accurate. The year they signed Lofton, they got off to a very fast start, then went into the tank the 1.5-2 months before the A.S. break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 They should be professional enough to focus on their competition. Their competition is not the Chicago Cubs. They will never draw away loyal Cub fans and the people who go to whoever's winning will go to them if they play well and win. Their competition is the AL Central - I'd GLADLY dump all 6 games to the Chicago NATIONAL LEAGUE team in exchange for an AMERICAN LEAGUE CENTRAL division championship. "Bragging rights", while fun at the bar, mean NOTHING in the grander scheme of things. I think you're missing the point here. It's not to try to convince Cubs fans to become Sox fans. Although I am old enough to remember a time when this town was not so lopsided in its support for the Cubs and still believe that with the right kind of team and ownership, fan support can swing the other way. The point is also not to use the current Cub fever in Chicago to only beat the Cubs. The point is that Sox players SHOULD use the fact that they are mostly overlooked in this town as a rallying cry to create some intensity and win, at least, the division. I hope, that like most Sox fans, the players don't just want the "bragging rights" for the Cubs-Sox series. We already have that. I hope they are angry enough that they will put as much effort into beating everybody else as they do into beating the Cubs. :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I hope they are angry enough that they will put as much effort into beating everybody else as they do into beating the Cubs. :fthecubs The problem has been that they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I think you're missing the point here. It's not to try to convince Cubs fans to become Sox fans. Although I am old enough to remember a time when this town was not so lopsided in its support for the Cubs and still believe that with the right kind of team and ownership, fan support can swing the other way. The point is also not to use the current Cub fever in Chicago to only beat the Cubs. The point is that Sox players SHOULD use the fact that they are mostly overlooked in this town as a rallying cry to create some intensity and win, at least, the division. I hope, that like most Sox fans, the players don't just want the "bragging rights" for the Cubs-Sox series. We already have that. I hope they are angry enough that they will put as much effort into beating everybody else as they do into beating the Cubs. :fthecubs I may be missing your point, Airdale, but my point is that it should NEVER take the Cubs to motivate the Sox. They shouldn't need stupid petty jealousy to make them want to improve. It should be the disappointing second-place finishes to a team that they had superior talent to. It should be the fact that Kansas City posed a more valid threat to Minnesota than they did for almost 4 months last year. It should be PROFESSIONAL PRIDE that motivates them to get better, and that should have nothing to do with the Cubs or any other National League team. The Cubs are ( or rather, should be ) a non-issue to the Sox or their fans. Too many people get too worked up over the Cubs around here, and it detracts from the Sox discussion, in my opinion. That said, I must admit that I truly and completely enjoyed the last 11 innings of the National League Championship Series last October, because it finally brought a halt to the Cubbie Delirium at my workplace. But even that won't be a factor this year, since I have been relocated to another section of the building, where I no longer have to hear from the Cub Cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 if the sox win the world series this year this will still be a cubs town..granted we will get some cross over fans but in the end there will still be more cub fans than sox fans.. if the cubs win the world series only the die hards will be at the cell..im guessing attendance at the cell will drop to about 1.3 mil..worst case scenario..it gets so bad reinsdorf breaks his lease and moves the franchise... 3 moves killed the sox in this town...the worst being the move in the 80's to pay per view cable before most of chicago was wired for cable (for you youngsters - yes , it wasnt that long ago when people didnt have cable )while the cubs broadcast over the air locally and turn WGN into a superstation on cable...that just killed the sox...... the strike and reinsdorf being painted as the poster child of the owners unwillingness to negotiate despite the sox having their first real chance since 1918 to go to the playoffs in consecutive years...then of course the ill fated white falg trade when the sox were only 3 games out... we lost a whole generation of fans to the cubs..these people are now raising thier kids to be cub fans...i dont know if the sox will ever get the upper hand again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 we lost a whole generation of fans to the cubs..these people are now raising thier kids to be cub fans...i dont know if the sox will ever get the upper hand again And if they do.. sadly, it will not be in our lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 The Cubs are ( or rather, should be ) a non-issue to the Sox or their fans. Too many people get too worked up over the Cubs around here, and it detracts from the Sox discussion, in my opinion. I'm sorry, but I just don't care as much about beating Minnesota or KC as I do about beating the Cubs. I think most Sox fans, whether they are willing to admit it or not, are more interested in beating the Cubs than any other team. The simple fact that Minnesota and KC are in our division is not enough to overcome the natural intra-city rivalry. Having said that, I agree that I would trade wins against the Cubs for a WS championship in a heartbeat. That doesn't mean that Sox players shouldn't use the current one sided fan base in this city as motivation to beat everybody they can and try to improve the situation. Beating the Cubs doesn't mean just beating them on those 6 games/year, but beating them to a WS championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 if the sox win the world series this year this will still be a cubs town..granted we will get some cross over fans but in the end there will still be more cub fans than sox fans.. if the cubs win the world series only the die hards will be at the cell..im guessing attendance at the cell will drop to about 1.3 mil..worst case scenario..it gets so bad reinsdorf breaks his lease and moves the franchise... 3 moves killed the sox in this town...the worst being the move in the 80's to pay per view cable before most of chicago was wired for cable (for you youngsters - yes , it wasnt that long ago when people didnt have cable )while the cubs broadcast over the air locally and turn WGN into a superstation on cable...that just killed the sox...... the strike and reinsdorf being painted as the poster child of the owners unwillingness to negotiate despite the sox having their first real chance since 1918 to go to the playoffs in consecutive years...then of course the ill fated white falg trade when the sox were only 3 games out... we lost a whole generation of fans to the cubs..these people are now raising thier kids to be cub fans...i dont know if the sox will ever get the upper hand again One other by-product of that move was a pretty major blow as well, and that was Harry Caray jumping ship when the Sox went to SportsVision, and blasting them pretty good while jumping. And I guess I'll agree to disagree with Airdale, finishing my point by saying that if MOST Sox fans really do care more about beating the Cubs than winning the division, it's a pretty sad statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 And if they do.. sadly, it will not be in our lifetime. Just as a hypothetical question here What IF somehow some crazy-ass s*** occurred and the White Sox strung together 5 straight Central Division crowns, got to the Series two years and finally did win one, and this tradition of winning continued for the next 10 years, though not necessarily getting to the playoffs every year? Meanwhile, the Cubs turn into us, a bunch of underachieving clowns who constantly disappoint. Do we get these fans back, or is Chicago still a Cub town? BTW, just because these Cubs-fan parents are raising their kids as Cubs fans does not mean they'll be Cubs fans their whole life. I believe I've said it a few times on here before that I was brought up(from about the age of 4-8) as a Twins fan. Found out who this Frank Thomas guy was, and my love of the Sox blossomed from that. It's not entirely impossible for something like this to happen to thousands of kids and for that matter adults as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Just as a hypothetical question here What IF somehow some crazy-ass s*** occurred and the White Sox strung together 5 straight Central Division crowns, got to the Series two years and finally did win one, and this tradition of winning continued for the next 10 years, though not necessarily getting to the playoffs every year? Meanwhile, the Cubs turn into us, a bunch of underachieving clowns who constantly disappoint. Do we get these fans back, or is Chicago still a Cub town? BTW, just because these Cubs-fan parents are raising their kids as Cubs fans does not mean they'll be Cubs fans their whole life. I believe I've said it a few times on here before that I was brought up(from about the age of 4-8) as a Twins fan. Found out who this Frank Thomas guy was, and my love of the Sox blossomed from that. It's not entirely impossible for something like this to happen to thousands of kids and for that matter adults as well. I wish I could answer, but I have no idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I wish I could answer, but I have no idea... Dammit Steff, and I thought you had all the answers too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillieHarris2 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 cubs suck, let them keep talkin all there trash, we still own them thats right 4 outta 6 in 03, just worry bout the 6 games withe the cubs and screw all the attention they are getting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Just as a hypothetical question here What IF somehow some crazy-ass s*** occurred and the White Sox strung together 5 straight Central Division crowns, got to the Series two years and finally did win one, and this tradition of winning continued for the next 10 years, though not necessarily getting to the playoffs every year? Meanwhile, the Cubs turn into us, a bunch of underachieving clowns who constantly disappoint. Do we get these fans back, or is Chicago still a Cub town? BTW, just because these Cubs-fan parents are raising their kids as Cubs fans does not mean they'll be Cubs fans their whole life. I believe I've said it a few times on here before that I was brought up(from about the age of 4-8) as a Twins fan. Found out who this Frank Thomas guy was, and my love of the Sox blossomed from that. It's not entirely impossible for something like this to happen to thousands of kids and for that matter adults as well. i imagine something like that would make a dent in the fair weather or casual; fans...which is fine cause i laways liked the idea of those guys spending there money at our park... i think the 20-35 year olds are pretty much lost for good in this town...but that kind of winning streak could win their kids back..and eventually that would show up in attendance and stuff like 20 years down the road...kinda like the last 20 or years have been a sucess for the cubs but the sox making a 10 year playoff run??...cmon dude... it is fun to think about though...could you imagine actually not having to look forward to 7-9 seasons from the bears as being the sports hi-lights of the year?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I'd be happy with a 156-6 season Why are you saying they are going to lose so many games? You know they are better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Why are you saying they are going to lose so many games? You know they are better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 And I guess I'll agree to disagree with Airdale, finishing my point by saying that if MOST Sox fans really do care more about beating the Cubs than winning the division, it's a pretty sad statement. Again, I don't care more about beating the Cubs than winning the division. In a game for game comparison, though, I am more excited about beating the Cubs than beating the Royals. Each win is worth the same in the standings, don't forget. I know the Sox play more games against KC and Minnesota, so obviously those series are more important than the Cubs-Sox series, but on a game-for-game comparison, I think MOST Sox fans are more excited about beating the Cubs than beating the Twins. My hope is that the Sox players use the anger that we all feel at playing 15th fiddle in this town and show the intensity they have shown in the past in beating the Cubs to beat all their other opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Dammit Steff, and I thought you had all the answers too! Ugh.. not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 The Cubs are ( or rather, should be ) a non-issue to the Sox or their fans I vehemently disagree with the above, Critic. Not many things are sweeter than finding out that Sox won and Cubs lost. Your knee-jerk response would be, "You're jealous and petty". Trust me, I am neither. I love despising the Cubs and seeing their fans miserable. I also know that with the continual Cubs failure, more and more casual baseball fans should find their way to the USCF or at least to their televisions....provided of course we win a few divisions in a row and generate some buzz. Which of course we haven't been able to get done in the last 3 years. And now Cubs are really good and we're in a real danger of losing the city forever (or for a long time anyway) should they make it to the Series. :fyou KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 i agree with brando...one of the special things about being a fan in this town is the crosstown rivalry with the cubs..chicago is the only city that has 2 teams within its city limits (new york is debatable but i say no to flushing being part of the city)...that and the fact neither team has won in such a long time really intensifies that rivalry...we have something that fans of no other teams really have...the closest i think of in terms of hate is LA-san fran but they are sperated by 400 miles...ours is unique and special and shouldnt be played down imo.. the big question should be why the team cant seem to play all 162 games with the same intensity they do against the scrubs...i guess thats ozzie's most impoertant job this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Well hot damn... we got ourselves a good 3 or 4 threads of BASEBALL TALK!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Rector Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 The real question is whether last year's Cubs will inspire this year's Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 The real question is whether last year's Cubs will inspire this year's Cubs. The other question for Cubs fans is, Will last year's overuse of starting pitchers be this year's downfall? They've been Dusty-ized! Mercker has started in the past, hasn't he? Hawkins has too, right? They might need them again, if history holds true. Pitchers who throw as many innings as theirs did normally miss some starts the following season. ( Which actually is a concern of mine about Loaiza.... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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