YASNY Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 The whole team ran the bases like "friggin' idiots" last year. Damn, but that was pathetic. Maybe now that we have someone new in the coaches boxes, that will improve. It can't get any worse. As for Carlos .... I really agree with Heather. I think he will tear it up this year. The reason for my optimism is that though we have been waiting for that to happen for a couple of seasons now, he really improve his batting eye and strike zone discipline over the 2nd half last season. The mental part of it is just about there for him. He has the talent to be a hitting machine. I really hate to see us give up on him right before it all comes together for him, because when it does he's going to put up some major numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 The whole team ran the bases like "friggin' idiots" last year. Damn, but that was pathetic. Maybe now that we have someone new in the coaches boxes, that will improve. It can't get any worse. As for Carlos .... I really agree with Heather. I think he will tear it up this year. The reason for my optimism is that though we have been waiting for that to happen for a couple of seasons now, he really improve his batting eye and strike zone discipline over the 2nd half last season. The mental part of it is just about there for him. He has the talent to be a hitting machine. I really hate to see us give up on him right before it all comes together for him, because when it does he's going to put up some major numbers. you may be right but he is still gonna suck in LF...he will get picked off base more now because he will be on base more..and if he does have a break out year of lets say 35-110 320 do you think it would be a wise move to pay him the 8 -9 million he probably will earn in arbiration with those numbers knowing his other deficiencies???... god i hate players that play in a fog...and there is a lot of fog around carlos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 I think it would be wise to keep him for this season and see what he does. I really believe BigFrank is outta here after 2003... just call it a hunch. If that's the case, we are going need Carlos to step into that DH spot. By then, Joe B should be ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesomefan Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Heather: Finally you showed up to defend your MAN....Carlos Lee!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!! Thanks, also, to the other defenders of Carlos Lee. The stats I posted were hard to read & figure out; but if you go to ESPN.com, you can bring up the stats on left fielders in the American League. Carlos only had 1 error last year it looks like. I can't bear to see a decent player & person get bashed. YASNY got it exactly right about most of the White Sox team making alot of base running blunders....not just Carlos Lee. I've posted several times about one of my pet peeves in baseball....baserunning blunders...The White Sox are oh so guilty of this & since so many White Sox players are guilty, I assume this is a White Sox Management problem. Chisoxfn says "stat wise Carlos Lee Ain't bad. That should tell you El Caballo Naysayers something, because Chisoxfn is well known to know his baseball & especially White Sox Baseball. Witesoxfan: Thanks for the STATS websites. I'll check it out if I get time. As most regular posters here know, Tony Graffanino is my man now that KW dumped my beloved Herbert Perry. Still, I HAVE to defend most any White Sox player because....THEIR GOOD ENOUGH, THEIR SMART ENOUGH & DOGGONE IT "I LOVE THESE GUYS"!!!! Even though alot of the Carlos Lee naysayers are good SoxFan friends of mine on & off the messageboards, they should be ashamed of jumping on the El Caballo Bashing Bandwagon. I beg them to get down off that wagon & give Carlos some LOVE. PLEASE STOP calling Carlos Lee names & calling for him to be DUMPED. STOP with the "idiot", "fat", "sucks", "blows", "train wreck", "lawn ornament", "butt sniffer", "dumbass". wsc425: Once again, one minute you post stuff wanting to get others to join you on the El Caballo Bashing Bandwagon & then 7 minutes later you say Carlos will be fine. You don't know about his 3rd base playing history & just flat out don't know the MAN, so give it up. I don't see how anyone can join your Bashing Bandwagon when you have NO absolutely NO credibility. Get your sloppy stories straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Heather: Finally you showed up to defend your MAN....Carlos Lee!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!! Thanks, also, to the other defenders of Carlos Lee. The stats I posted were hard to read & figure out; but if you go to ESPN.com, you can bring up the stats on left fielders in the American League. Carlos only had 1 error last year it looks like. I can't bear to see a decent player & person get bashed. YASNY got it exactly right about most of the White Sox team making alot of base running blunders....not just Carlos Lee. I've posted several times about one of my pet peeves in baseball....baserunning blunders...The White Sox are oh so guilty of this & since so many White Sox players are guilty, I assume this is a White Sox Management problem. Chisoxfn says "stat wise Carlos Lee Ain't bad. That should tell you El Caballo Naysayers something, because Chisoxfn is well known to know his baseball & especially White Sox Baseball. Witesoxfan: Thanks for the STATS websites. I'll check it out if I get time. As most regular posters here know, Tony Graffanino is my man now that KW dumped my beloved Herbert Perry. Still, I HAVE to defend most any White Sox player because....THEIR GOOD ENOUGH, THEIR SMART ENOUGH & DOGGONE IT "I LOVE THESE GUYS"!!!! Even though alot of the Carlos Lee naysayers are good SoxFan friends of mine on & off the messageboards, they should be ashamed of jumping on the El Caballo Bashing Bandwagon. I beg them to get down off that wagon & give Carlos some LOVE. PLEASE STOP calling Carlos Lee names & calling for him to be DUMPED. STOP with the "idiot", "fat", "sucks", "blows", "train wreck", "lawn ornament", "butt sniffer", "dumbass". wsc425: Once again, one minute you post stuff wanting to get others to join you on the El Caballo Bashing Bandwagon & then 7 minutes later you say Carlos will be fine. You don't know about his 3rd base playing history & just flat out don't know the MAN, so give it up. I don't see how anyone can join your Bashing Bandwagon when you have NO absolutely NO credibility. Get your sloppy stories straight. brian daubach and zero errors last year awesome in LF...if you want to use errors only as an indicator..but that doesnt make "daubber" a gold glover either...but he has a better arm than carlos and can take a good route to a ball...but he is slower than hell and that means he will never be more than adaquate at best..jacque jones has more errors than both carlos and daubber combined probably over their entire careers..are you gonna honestly tell me both are better then jacque defensively in LF because they make less errors ????..you have to be able to see how bad carlos really is in LF...regaurdless of the one error... the best and only reason i can see that makes sense to keep carlos this year and pay him the big bucks next year comes from YASNY...should he F.I.N.N.A.L.L.Y. have his breakout year he would be ideal then to replace frank should frank and the sox decide to part ways.... i just wish kip wells would have had 1/2 the chances carlos got...this will be his 9th year in the organization...if he does finally have a break out year i sure dont want to hear "see i told you so" from anyone...that would be like peter gammons saying the same thing if the red sox finally win a world series after he picked them to win it all the last 37 years in a row Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Carlos Lee is still a fat Panamanian that is, to quote scouts "a train wreck in LF" WELL f*** YOU, SIDESHOW!!!!! :fyou I'm just quoting what a scout said in Sports Illustrated before the beginning of last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 i thought i read that wrong..lol........or did i.. did he just say that carlos is better in the base paths than frank is??? how do ya figure... lee takes off wether anyone tells him to or not and gets caught.. .at least frank has the sense enough to know what hes capable of or not capable of.............face it lee is now and always will be a dumbass............ One of the worst on the basepaths the Sox have ever had. Can make even the most routine fly ball a real adventure, but I really love the way he hits those cubbies!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 I was there, I loved it, but I cannot remember the details, and I am at work, far away from my scorecards so I can't look it up - what game was it last year that CLee make that sensational catch? And Heather - keep sticking up for CLee. I think he improves year by year and I look for an awesome year from him this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Carlos wasn't the only one that stunk on the basepaths. The whole team pretty much did. Of course, this wasn't Carlos first time being a bad base runner, and hopefully he works on his game, cause there is nothing I hate more then seeing stupid mistakes. I think every player out there should have mental awareness. For pete sake most all of them have been playing the game since they were 6. Shouldn't you know how to run the bases and where to throw the ball. Our new base coaches better have plenty of meetings during spring training with the Sox cause this team has to get back to basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 When we make such dumb base running mistakes repeatedly, I wonder where the coaching staff is - does anyone teach the game anymore? I really wonder about that with manuel, we seem to never improve on some of those little but very important things and that is my only complaint about him, which is more of a question anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 And Heather - keep sticking up for CLee. I think he improves year by year and I look for an awesome year from him this season. cw you know i love ya dearly and i just cant resist this upcoming comment to heather ok.. so close your eyes for a minute........ heather dont listen to him.. remember he was/still is claytons biggest/only fan .............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 When we make such dumb base running mistakes repeatedly, I wonder where the coaching staff is - does anyone teach the game anymore? Oh boy, looks like Nellie part deux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Errors are a totally useless stat and anyone who thinks otherwise is a baseball moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 DoubleM, you are right about errors being useless stats. Official Scorers have got to be the most incompetent group of quasi professionals anywhere this side of Afghanistan. But there is no way it will ever be solved, short of assassinations. Not calling errors inflates both fielding averages and ERA's. Since the media types who get these assignments either can't or won't make the calls correctly, each team should hire its own guy to do it unofficially, and do it right, and publish the results. For example, if the bases are loaded with two outs, and the pitcher gets the hitter to pop up in short left, and the bozo out there loses the ball in the sun because his glasses are on top of his hat, and three runs score, all charged to the pitcher because the scorer gave the guy a double, ...I think you get my point. And how often does a hitter get credit for a hit when he bounces a hard two hopper right to the shortstop because it was too hot to handle?? for a major league shortstop? My opinions have nothing to do with my loyalty to the Sox. I have vented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 When we make such dumb base running mistakes repeatedly, I wonder where the coaching staff is - does anyone teach the game anymore? I really wonder about that with manuel, we seem to never improve on some of those little but very important things and that is my only complaint about him, which is more of a question anyway. not that im defending gary pettis because i wasnt a fan of his spying and all that crap...but that one game in detriot..carlos is on first and the last thing pettis says....you could read his lips very clearly.."this guy has a great move"...lee takes his lead and the pitchers throws over and lee doesnt even attempt to get to back to first...he is stnding there looking at randall simon as he walks over and tags him out... now how is that one the coaches fault???....the play is right in front of carlos' face and he just got warned to be careful....if i was pettis id have shot him that day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 In his playing days, KW was picked off by Dennis Eckersley twice...think that's why Lee is one of KW's boys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 maybe we should have Eckerley at ST to do a seminar on not getting picked off - and we can show the KW pick off highlights on the scoreboard between innings" You call the play: KW on base, Eck on the mound, was it A. KW stole a base B. KW stayed on base to get driven in my a Sox batter C. KW gets picked off. If you answered C, you are correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 We have had so many baserunning blunders in the past. The worst may be Jerry Dyzbinski (sp?) who cost us a pennant with his blunder in the extra inning game Britt Burns lost to Baltimore. If we win we go to deciding game five withi LaMarr Hoyt on the mound. Hoyt was having a career year, but the Dybber blew it on the basepaths and we don't win 1-0, we lost in 10. Boston has a curse, but we do, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 One thing that I think had a part in the baserunning blunders was our 1B/3B coaches. Now that they are gone, we've got new coaches there, and I think we'll see improvement in the baserunning blunders IF these coaches are an upgrade...Obviously, we can't find this out until they actually begin playing the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 One thing that I think had a part in the baserunning blunders was our 1B/3B coaches. Now that they are gone, we've got new coaches there, and I think we'll see improvement in the baserunning blunders IF these coaches are an upgrade...Obviously, we can't find this out until they actually begin playing the games. in wavin wallys case yes..thats because he has had so many thrown out at home its rediculous...with less than 2 outs which is a HUGE nono..never ever get a runner thrown out at the plate with less than 2 outs...but most of our baserunning blunders happen with the play in front of the baserunner..getting thrown out going from 1st to 3rd on a base hit from left field to center is not the base coaches problem...thats a play where the baserunner is looking where the ball is hit as he rounds 2nd..his call.. getting picked off any base...baserunners fault and not the coches...on any base the base runner once he gets his lead is looking right at the pitcher... those were the mistakes we made most.. what type of baserunning mistakes are the coaches fault...3rd base...anytime he waves a runner around to home...a runner going to 3rd base on a ball hit to RF...this play sparked a huge debate over josh paul being thrown out at 3rd for the first out in the 9th with the sox down a run...who's fault was it???...some say wally waved him over..other say josh went on his own after wally put up the stop sign..we dont know because we never got wally on camera on that play...but whenever a play is behind the runner going to 3rd or rounding 3rd..its the 3rd base coaches call.. 1st base coach..on a base hit to LF..if he sees the outfielder bobble it he can make that call..again this is a play thats kind of behind the runner and the 1st base coach will usually see it first...on an infield hit where the throw gets by the first baseman...or a grounder to 3rd or ss that goes through to the outfield for an error...plays to cf and rf should be the responsibility of the base runner because he can see those.. so heather, when we look at what and what isnt the responsibility of the base coaches...look for more of the same..these kinds of mistakes have to be rectified by the players..now with the veteran bench we have manuel can do something about if he has the stones...if the same guys keep screwing up ...bench them for a game or two...worked for miguel tejada in oakland... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 There is no acceptable reason for the horrific baserunning we watched last year. Who's fault is it? Manager, Coaches, Players.... all three. I mean damn, have these people not been playing baseball, watching baseball, LIVING baseball since childhood?? It's real simple guys ... Know what the hell you are going to do before the ball is hit. If you're on 2nd base, if the ball is hit behind you on the ground, run. If it's hit in front of you, make it go through before you run. You think all these things through when the play is over and before the next pitch is thrown. Don't stand there basking in the glory of your bloop two-out double with nobody on base, thinking that's good for the old stats. Think about what the hell you are going to do when the damn ball is hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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