Shoe22 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Someone help me. Why is signing Maggs a good thing? Trade him now for pitching. If KW can get Mota, Perez and Jackson for Maggs it would be a steal. If we sign Maggs to a long term deal, he ties up too much money. If we wait, we may get nothing for him. The strength of the minor league system is OF depth. It is excellent. Anderson and Reed are close. Joe B might still make it. Then Sweeney, Nanita, Young... Spend the money up the middle or on pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe22 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 "PR and marketing are awful." They could do better but the media treats the White Sox with the cynical eye while the Coo seem to mostly get the half full approach. And the WS fans are worse. "Scouting, horrible. " Huh? Reed, Wing, Anderson, Valido, Munoz, etc. Scouting has been solid. "Development, questionable." Yep, from a pitching standpoint, though the Wells trade really hurt. "Ballpark wasn't even in the same league as other new parks." Ballpark is/will be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Someone help me. Why is signing Maggs a good thing? Trade him now for pitching. If KW can get Mota, Perez and Jackson for Maggs it would be a steal. If we sign Maggs to a long term deal, he ties up too much money. If we wait, we may get nothing for him. The strength of the minor league system is OF depth. It is excellent. Anderson and Reed are close. Joe B might still make it. Then Sweeney, Nanita, Young... Spend the money up the middle or on pitching. In my opinion you sign Maggs and keep him here because: (1) he is aproven commodity and a star player (2) he is a homegrown product (3) you know he will produce whereas the players mentioned in the minors still are developing (4) it is the mark of a competitive franchise that they reward their own and keep them rather than trade them off as soon as they become stars and deserve to be paid as such (5) it builds fan interest and respect in the organization.(6) Fans see the club as committed to winning and respond positively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe22 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 But you're talking about White Sox fans. We sign Maggs, they'll find something else to b**** about. And I still think it's a much better baseball decision to deal him for pitching. He'll take up far too much salary space for what he produces. He's one of the most consistent hitters but you can find someone nearly as good for much less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 "PR and marketing are awful." They could do better but the media treats the White Sox with the cynical eye while the Coo seem to mostly get the half full approach. And the WS fans are worse. "Scouting, horrible. " Huh? Reed, Wing, Anderson, Valido, Munoz, etc. Scouting has been solid. "Development, questionable." Yep, from a pitching standpoint, though the Wells trade really hurt. "Ballpark wasn't even in the same league as other new parks." Ballpark is/will be great. I'm sorry about the scouting, I meant ML scouts. Specifically I have been shocked by the way that pitchers we haven't seen before just absolutely blow through our lineup. We can go out and score runs on proven pitchers but get embarrassed by AAAA rookies. It's awful. I agree as far as minor league scouts go, I'd say they are average. Sure we have a few bright spots, but I wouldn't say that we are heads and shoulders above the rest of the league. Also, I enjoy Comiskey. But there is no denying that it was an extremely plain ballpark when compared to say Jacobs field. I'm ecstatic that they've continuously updated Comiskey, but the bottom line is that it felt short of expectations. It was never a park that out of towners "had to see". Those "have to see" parks increase attendance, something we sorely lack. Ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkiconk Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 He's one of the most consistent hitters but you can find someone nearly as good for much less let's find them and sign a half dozen!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Someone help me. Why is signing Maggs a good thing? Trade him now for pitching. If KW can get Mota, Perez and Jackson for Maggs it would be a steal. If we sign Maggs to a long term deal, he ties up too much money. If we wait, we may get nothing for him. The strength of the minor league system is OF depth. It is excellent. Anderson and Reed are close. Joe B might still make it. Then Sweeney, Nanita, Young... Spend the money up the middle or on pitching. Anderson won't be ready until 2005 at least, most likely late 2006. The other guys you mentioned - Nanita, Sweeney, Young are nowhere close to the majors. And who knows on Borchard, he may never make it. I'll go ahead and offer my stance on Ordonez. While he is a large attraction for the Sox, Frank Thomas is still and will always be the most recognizable figure on the White Sox (and I don't even care for Frank). Sorry to burst Magglio's bubble, but he's not in the same class as Vladimir Guerrero. When Vlady is totally healthy, he's head and shoulders above Mags and younger. He's got a better arm, a better bat and better wheels. And Tejada plays one of the most important positions in baseball and is probably the 2nd best at that position in baseball. With that said, I suppose we will see where Mags really stands on all of this. Is he willing to take slightly less money to remain with the Sox, in the city he claims he loves? Or will he take the best monetary offer on the market and be able to relax? While I would like to retain him, I am not willing to compromise staying competitive under the current payroll structure just to keep him. With our rotation in a few yrs (Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, Honel, Cotts, etc.) I think we will be better suited to build with pitching and not overpay for a guy who I feel will have a decline in production in 2 or 3 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 There is no doubt that Maggs is not in Vlad territory. He's damn good, yes, but, first of all the Angels overpaid for Vlad. Second, Maggs ain't the overall player Vlad is. Signing Maggs would definitely send a signal to Sox fans, but that is only as good as what happens next. If they sign Maggs for 5 or 6 years at $12 to $13 million a year, is that gonna keep us from having the flexibility to add players in the future? With this ownership group, damn right it is. As for marketing and PR ... these guys don't have a clue. Elvis night is big deal? C'mon ... gimme a damn break. We need a team that fans believe have a chance to win the whole enchilada and that park will be packed. Yet last year, we thought we had the horses but they sucked until the AS break. That's no way to make the casual fan a believer. The inteview with Einhorn told me all I need to know. This group wants to be "competitive". They don't want to win the damn Series. You bastards have had 20+ years to bring a winner to the southside. You have f***ING FAILED MISERABLY!!!!! Sell the damn team to someone that gives a s***. No, Eddie, it's not right that you guys "run the team the way you want to". It may be legal but it's morally incomprehensible. Either bring us a World Champion or get sell the damn team! s*** or get off the pot, assholes! Pardon my rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 There is no doubt that Maggs is not in Vlad territory. He's damn good, yes, but, first of all the Angels overpaid for Vlad. Second, Maggs ain't the overall player Vlad is. Signing Maggs would definitely send a signal to Sox fans, but that is only as good as what happens next. If they sign Maggs for 5 or 6 years at $12 to $13 million a year, is that gonna keep us from having the flexibility to add players in the future? With this ownership group, damn right it is. As for marketing and PR ... these guys don't have a clue. Elvis night is big deal? C'mon ... gimme a damn break. We need a team that fans believe have a chance to win the whole enchilada and that park will be packed. Yet last year, we thought we had the horses but they sucked until the AS break. That's no way to make the casual fan a believer. The inteview with Einhorn told me all I need to know. This group wants to be "competitive". They don't want to win the damn Series. You bastards have had 20+ years to bring a winner to the southside. You have f***ING FAILED MISERABLY!!!!! Sell the damn team to someone that gives a s***. No, Eddie, it's not right that you guys "run the team the way you want to". It may be legal but it's morally incomprehensible. Either bring us a World Champion or get sell the damn team! s*** or get off the pot, assholes! Pardon my rant. no need to pardon your rant...it represents what about 80% of us feel...you ought to clean it up a little and send it to all the chicago papers...it might make the reader opinion section... how bad as it gotten for the sox , marriotti is now coming off as a sympathetic figure...pr is a freakin nightmare for this team...if this group starts out slow like last year's team i dont know if they could draw a million fans i really think reinsdorf and his cronies are so insulated from the real world they dont even see the inevitable trainwreck coming...this could be one very ugly season...the presure for this team thats assmbled now to win is gonna be unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 no need to pardon your rant...it represents what about 80% of us feel...you ought to clean it up a little and send it to all the chicago papers...it might make the reader opinion section... how bad as it gotten for the sox , marriotti is now coming off as a sympathetic figure...pr is a freakin nightmare for this team...if this group starts out slow like last year's team i dont know if they could draw a million fans i really think reinsdorf and his cronies are so insulated from the real world they dont even see the inevitable trainwreck coming...this could be one very ugly season...the presure for this team thats assmbled now to win is gonna be unbelievable You know, cleaning it up and sending it to the papers is something I might do. I try and be a supportive fan, but these guys make damn near impossible to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Your right to rant YASNY. I agree with your take on the ownership and I have said it too. I think it is very apparent that they aren't going to do what's right to make a pennant winner and will only settle for the division. We will be out of the playoffs in the 1st round again. But, I disagree with your take on Maggs. But we can do that amongst friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Your right to rant YASNY. I agree with your take on the ownership and I have said it too. I think it is very apparent that they aren't going to do what's right to make a pennant winner and will only settle for the division. We will be out of the playoffs in the 1st round again. But, I disagree with your take on Maggs. But we can do that amongst friends. Hell, making the playoffs would be fine with me. Then once we get there, you never know what could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Hell, making the playoffs would be fine with me. Then once we get there, you never know what could happen. I guess I could take winning too. Your right about not knowing what can happen when your on a roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 Your right to rant YASNY. I agree with your take on the ownership and I have said it too. I think it is very apparent that they aren't going to do what's right to make a pennant winner and will only settle for the division. We will be out of the playoffs in the 1st round again. But, I disagree with your take on Maggs. But we can do that amongst friends. Are you saying that Maggs is as good as Vlad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Are you saying that Maggs is as good as Vlad? You may be able to get away with calling Mags better than Sammy, but not Vlads. To me, he is the 2nd best player in baseball besides A Rod, with Pujols in 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I might go as far to call Vlad when healthy the BEST player in baseball. The guy hits for average, extra base hits, power, can fly, and is a tremendous defensive player, with an outstanding throwing arm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I'm taking a new stance........ To hell with winning...... just focus on going out to the ballpark and having a good time. Enjoy a dog and a beer and some quality time with your kids. Use the ballpark to do business, to have a good time with your friends. Fun can still be had without a WS Title, damnit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I'm taking a new stance........ To hell with winning...... just focus on going out to the ballpark and having a good time. Enjoy a dog and a beer and some quality time with your kids. Use the ballpark to do business, to have a good time with your friends. Fun can still be had without a WS Title, damnit! I agree Rex. Hell I live 5 hrs from Chicago and I still plan on going to games whenever I can because I love White Sox baseball. If I lived in the area, I'd definitely have season tickets. All of the ownership bulls*** aside, I'll support the team regardless. The best part to me is going to the park, enjoying the game and spending time with my Dad. Whether the Sox are in first or last, I can still do all of those things. Not that it doesn't matter to me if they win or lose, but I am still going to have fun going out to the ballpark and supporting the team. At first I was negative about this upcoming season, but now it seems like I am one of those ones who is tired of hearing the negative from everybody else. Go Sox... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Mariotti makes some good points and some bad ones.... However, if we think/know that we can't resign Mags...I'd like to see us trade him off somewhere. I just don't know if we will offer him arb, and try to get a draft pick or two for him. I can't stand to think that we won't get anything for him if he ends up leaving the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I'm taking a new stance........ To hell with winning...... just focus on going out to the ballpark and having a good time. Enjoy a dog and a beer and some quality time with your kids. Use the ballpark to do business, to have a good time with your friends. Fun can still be had without a WS Title, damnit! while I agree with you there, it's still better with a winning and competitive team on the field. I'll be going to the same amount of games even if they're bad. But it just adds that much more to the whole experience if your in a pennant race. The games I went to this september were some of the most tense and fun games i've ever gone to, the entire stadium is into the game....hanging on every pitch. That's fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 i think rex is being sarcastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 i think rex is being sarcastic Only partially baggs....... In reality, fans can have great experiences at the ballpark and their lives can be enriched by those experiences. To be so tense in life to complain constantly about wins and losses in an entertainment venue seems overblown. One can find ways to enjoy sports and sporting events without being so intense, yet retain or even exceed their current quality of life. Sorry for my zen-like state this afternoon, but I do think there is some validity here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Are you saying that Maggs is as good as Vlad? Maggs has consistently been one of the most underrated outfielders in baseball. Is he as good as Vlad? I don't know. It can be argued though that he is in the top 10-15 and that ain't bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Only partially baggs....... In reality, fans can have great experiences at the ballpark and their lives can be enriched by those experiences. To be so tense in life to complain constantly about wins and losses in an entertainment venue seems overblown. One can find ways to enjoy sports and sporting events without being so intense, yet retain or even exceed their current quality of life. Sorry for my zen-like state this afternoon, but I do think there is some validity here. id be alot more zen - like myself if we could just win once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 id be alot more zen - like myself if we could just win once Yeah, right....... you'd b**** because we haven't won two! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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