Soxbadger Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I thought Cotts looked good for his 4 starts and especially since he was making a jump from AA to MLB. I think if he would of had some more time in AAA then his control would of been better when he hit the majors. But the Sox were in a pennant race and had NO 5th starter, they brought up Cotts because they thought he could pitch as well as our other 5 starters, (which I think he did). Id say in a year or 2 he will be a nice part of our rotation, with success only going up from there. I doubt he breaks camp with the Sox, and Id expect him to get a full season of AAA and then compete for a spot in 2005. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 What happened to Neal's "bizarro world slider"? It was hyped so much, by scouts and publications and such. Did they mean his curve? Or the way he pitches up so effective? Something doesn't compute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 What happened to Neal's "bizarro world slider"? It was hyped so much, by scouts and publications and such. Did they mean his curve? Or the way he pitches up so effective? Something doesn't compute. Wing is the lefty in the organization that has a top slider. Cotts was hyped as a fastball changeup, curve pitcher when he came ot the organization from the A's. To me he has done nothing but live up and surpass that hype. I still can't figure out why so many people wrote him off after he struggled in Yankee stadium, just his 4th start or so after being called up from AA. The guy had ridiculous stats and he is going to be a very good major league pitcher. And stats aren't the only thing he has, he also has very solid stuff. Is it where it has to be to be a star, no, but I can't think of many pitchers that are ready to be stars after 4 starts in the majros. Not even Dontrell or Webb had the stuff to be stars yet. Once your in the majors you still have a lot to learn and a lot to improve and every prospect is going to have to go through it. Slowly young players get better, some regress, it all depends...its why things are so hit and miss. But to get on a guy after 4 major league starts (two were solid; two not so, one of which was his major league debut, the other was a game where he was set up for failure by Jerry Manuel) is absolutely ridiculous. I'd understand if the guy had stunk in the minors as well, but with Cotts thats not the case. He also hasn't had an infinite amount of time to develop, etc. But everyone is entitled to their opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I still can't figure out why so many people wrote him off after he struggled in Yankee stadium, just his 4th start or so after being called up from AA. Who wrote him off? I know I didn't. I was just surprised that there was no BWS-- it was probably his fastball which was supposed to move so much when he takes some velocity off that people were mistaking for a slider. Comparing to Foulke is crazy. Foulke's fastball doesn't move and his curveball is....um...not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfour Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 That is the most ridiculous post I have ever heard! Granted, I am a little biased as I am friends and teammates with Cotts, but I am still a baseball fan, first and foremost. You are correct is saying that Neal and Foulke should not be compared. they are totally different pitchers and to compare them is just silly. But still, as Rex has posted, his #'s are ridiculous (opponents Batting Average, K's per 9 inn.), he is only 23 years old and he only made 4 starts. Give the kid a chance before you bash him. I guess this is the place to bash players, which is your right, but I can't wait till that kid shoves and you jump on his bandwagon!! Baj I'm sorry. It's just frustrating to see a guy struggle to hit his spots. Control should be a given if you're a pitcher in rookie ball, let alone the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Who wrote him off? I know I didn't. I was just surprised that there was no BWS-- it was probably his fastball which was supposed to move so much when he takes some velocity off that people were mistaking for a slider. Comparing to Foulke is crazy. Foulke's fastball doesn't move and his curveball is....um...not good. Plus Foulke is a righty, Foulke is a reliever, Foulke is etc, etc, etc I just don't see much, because Foulke never had three pitches and honestly Foulke's change was all he had (although he threw a curve and slider every once in a while). His fastball was weak sauce (not really deceptive, nor did it have movement). If I were going to compare Cotts to anyone right now, it would be Ishii. Ishii doesn't have the best control, but he gets a lot of k's and doesn't give up many hits. He's a solid lefty and like Ishii, when/if he develops better control he has the chance to be a front line pitcher. And ninetyfour, while its nice to think that most pitchers would have pinpoint control when they reach the majors, unfortunately its very very rare to find. I think part of it has to do that pitchers are much more raw when they reach the majors then they were. Back in the day pitchers spent much more time in the minors (it seems like the Sox are really working on this by holding guys at levels a little longer and not trying to rush them). A quick look through the majors and I'd say if you have pinpoint control you are an ace or one of the better pitchers out there. Exceptions to this are Kerry Wood (who relies on sensational stuff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfour Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 And ninetyfour, while its nice to think that most pitchers would have pinpoint control when they reach the majors, unfortunately its very very rare to find. I think part of it has to do that pitchers are much more raw when they reach the majors then they were. Back in the day pitchers spent much more time in the minors (it seems like the Sox are really working on this by holding guys at levels a little longer and not trying to rush them). A quick look through the majors and I'd say if you have pinpoint control you are an ace or one of the better pitchers out there. Exceptions to this are Kerry Wood (who relies on sensational stuff). I would settle for decent control. I don't think that there's one guy on our team with pinpoint control other than Loaiza (if last year was any indication). Buehrle is amazing, and I expect him to win 20 this year, but he still misses his spots from time to time. You don't have to be a surgeon, but you can't be behind in the count consistently, as Cotts has been thus far in the majors. But as everyone has pointed out, he's only 23, so he has plenty of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'm sorry. It's just frustrating to see a guy struggle to hit his spots. Control should be a given if you're a pitcher in rookie ball, let alone the majors. Will you freaking relax! We know there are control issues with Neal. No one is disputing that. But let's not act like we know how his Major League career will turn out. Patience is a virtue. See if you can find some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 How would you like to have these stats after 4 MLB starts?? CAREER PITCHING RECORD YR CLUB LG Class W-L .PCT ERA G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H AB TBF R ER HR SH SF HB BB IB SO WP BK AVG AGAINST Baltimore AL MAJ 0-3 .000 9.82 4 4 0 0 0 0 14.2 22 62 76 19 16 3 0 3 1 10 0 4 2 0 .355 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 How would you like to have these stats after 4 MLB starts?? CAREER PITCHING RECORD YR CLUB LG Class W-L .PCT ERA G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H AB TBF R ER HR SH SF HB BB IB SO WP BK AVG AGAINST Baltimore AL MAJ 0-3 .000 9.82 4 4 0 0 0 0 14.2 22 62 76 19 16 3 0 3 1 10 0 4 2 0 .355 Let me guess, Mike Mussina??? And didn't Greg Maddux stink up a storm his first time in the majors? And John Smoltz was like a complete bust with the Tigers and then when he found the Braves he became the star he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Not Mussina, try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Not Mussina, try again. I am doubting it would be Sidney Ponson. So I'm lost, I'm guessing it is someone who spent only a little time in the Orioles system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Time for you to think a little deeper, there Jason. And no cheating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Time for you to think a little deeper, there Jason. And no cheating! I know, I know!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I know, I know!!! I want to know.... it's killing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I want to know.... it's killing me. I'll give a hint, he hasn't been an O for a long time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'll give a hint, he hasn't been an O for a long time... Ugh.... riddles.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Ugh.... riddles.. he's still an active player right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'm thinking its someone like Palmer or one of the members from the O's glory days rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 He's still an active player........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Was Curt Schilling ever a Oriole, cause I remember seeing something on how he struggled when he reached the majors? I always thought he came up with Philly, but maybe I'm wrong and he was dealt to Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Was Curt Schilling ever a Oriole, cause I remember seeing something on how he struggled when he reached the majors? I always thought he came up with Philly, but maybe I'm wrong and he was dealt to Philly. Folks, it looks like we have a winner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Was Curt Schilling ever a Oriole, cause I remember seeing something on how he struggled when he reached the majors? I always thought he came up with Philly, but maybe I'm wrong and he was dealt to Philly. Took ya long enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Not only did he come up with Baltimore, but he spent one season with Houston before going to Philly........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Damn, I didn't have a clue...it was a completely wild guess, but Schillings name kept coming up in my mind and I finally figured what the hell. I'd of known it if I were older at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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