Rex Hudler Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Griffey is too much of a risk at too high a salary. See Albert Belle: Orioles I think you just said in 10 seconds what I have been trying to in 5 different posts. Thanks for getting straight to the point. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 The knock on this trade is that Griff is signed for 5 more years. Were his contract to run out after, say, 2005 or even 2006, then it would a compltely different story. BUT.....Konerko is one of the most overrated, overpaid players in the game. See next to last page of the "AM1000" thread for reasons why. Koch? You don't just lose 5-8mph of your fastball. He was overrated even when he threw 100, but at least he was legitimately above-average. In 2004, he may post a 5.50 ERA very easily. Griffey? HOF ceiling. 1000 OPS and GG defense. His recent injuries have robbed him of 20SB speed, but so what? I could live with that if he gives me very good defense and 900+ OPS. He makes, what, 12 Mill a year? He gives back a couple just because of attendance, ratings, media coverage and merchandise boost he brings. So you're takling about a 9-10 Mill a year player. Konerko and Koch make 14.8 Mill. I am not sure about Reitsma, though. Again, I believe he can stay healthy. But because of the LENGHT of the contract, it will be a big gamble to take him on. If he makes his salary up with attendance and media attention, the Reds wouldn't be so eager to trade him. The guy was a great player, maybe he could get back to being a good player, but the money that would have to be used to pay him can be much more wisely spent. This rumor is just not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I think you just said in 10 seconds what I have been trying to in 5 different posts. Thanks for getting straight to the point. LOL The difference between Joey and Junior is that: 1. Griff can actually play defense and play it well at a tougher position. 2. Joey was signed. If he was traded for, say, Navarro, Parque and Clayton, then his 11 Mill a year would have been tolerable. Plus, back then 11 Mill bought you more than 12 Mill buy you today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred3535 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I think I'd do this trade. While Griffey is a big risk, his salary is balanced by unloading Koch and Konerko. He was a Hall of Fame hitter before going to Cincinatti (and even in his first season there) so perhaps the hometown pressure has gotten to him and maybe he'd do better with the Sox. In addition, I think Koch has lost his spot on the team and it's useless to have an 8 million dollar set-up man. If Griffey is healthy there is no way that he puts up worse numbers than Konerko. Plus CF is a big need for the Sox. And, of course, Griffey is a name which would get people to the ballpark. I know he's a big risk, but so is relying on on Billy and Paul to bounce back. I don't think it will happen, but I wouldn't be disappointed in any way if KW pulls the trigger on this deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Comparisons, to Belle as a player aside, the point was the length of the financial commitment and the possibility of a team eating such commitment without getting a player for the full term of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 This rumor is just not true Of course it isn't. Reds aren't THAT desperate. But I disagree with you with regard to Griff's intangibles: Chicago is a lot different than Cincy and the first year impact would be greater anyway. Who knows how many "extra" fans would come out/tune in/buy merchanse/consume if healthy Griffey was introduced. Not enough to cover his entire contract, sure, but at least a mill or two worth more compared to what Aaron Rowand or Willie Harris "draw". IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Of course it isn't. Reds aren't THAT desperate. But I disagree with you with regard to Griff's intengibles: Chicago is a lot different than Cincy and the first year impact would be greater anyway. Who knows how many "extra" fans would come out/tune in/buy merchanse/consume if healthy Griffey was introduced. Not enough to cover his entire contract, sure, but at least a mill or two worth more compared to what Aaron Rowand or Willie Harris "draw". IMO. I think he has been injured too long to have much impact attendance and merchandise wise. He would get hurt in spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I think he has been injured too long to have much impact attendance and merchandise wise. He would get hurt in spring training. 1-2 Mill isn't tha high of a figure, Dick. It's not like I am expecting Sosa-ian boom circa 1998 when he made the Cubs uncounted millions just with his name/presence. And I disagree about him getting hurt in spring training. It's not as if he is the second coming of Samuel L Jackson from Unbreakable. Again, were his contract just a few years shorter, I would do the deal. Now? Might be too high a risk as Rex mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I think I'd do this trade. While Griffey is a big risk, his salary is balanced by unloading Koch and Konerko. He was a Hall of Fame hitter before going to Cincinatti (and even in his first season there) so perhaps the hometown pressure has gotten to him and maybe he'd do better with the Sox. In addition, I think Koch has lost his spot on the team and it's useless to have an 8 million dollar set-up man. If Griffey is healthy there is no way that he puts up worse numbers than Konerko. Plus CF is a big need for the Sox. And, of course, Griffey is a name which would get people to the ballpark. I know he's a big risk, but so is relying on on Billy and Paul to bounce back. I don't think it will happen, but I wouldn't be disappointed in any way if KW pulls the trigger on this deal. You gotta think big picture here....... Koch and Konerko are under contract with the Sox for a total of $23.125 million. Griffey is under contract for $62.5 million! Picking up Griffey would have repurcussions well beyond next season when Konerko is gone (barring being traded sooner). The idea of Junior patrolling CF for the Sox and being as good as he used to be with both the stick and the glove is a wonderful thought. But let's admit it folks, it's not gonna happen. He has been injured way too much, and grown older in the process. He may still fight his way back to a few good years, but don't expect a HOF type run from him like he did in the early to mid 90's. For an organization such as the White Sox, the risk is way too high for the potential reward in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 1-2 Mill isn't tha high of a figure, Dick. It's not like I am expecting Sosa-ian boom circa 1998 when he made the Cubs uncounted millions just with his name/presence. And I disagree about him getting hurt in spring training. It's not as if he is the second coming of Samuel L Jackson from Unbreakable. Again, were his contract just a few years shorter, I would do the deal. Now? Might be too high a risk as Rex mentioned. Who cares if he brings a million or two extra in revenue in year one? That won't offset the $12.5 million salary. Everyone has said all season long that you can't give too much to one player and that with the Sox current payroll Maggs is too expensive at $14 million. Yet, the concept of adding another player at $12.5 million and one that is injury prone and on the downside of his career is a good one? C'mon Brando, time to change flavors of kool aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Comparisons, to Belle as a player aside, the point was the length of the financial commitment and the possibility of a team eating such commitment without getting a player for the full term of it. I know. We save about 2.5 Mill this year. We lose only 4 Mill in 2005. That means we only lose 1.5 over 2 years....and of course Griff makes it up for being a much better player than Konerko. And with his name-recognition. But from 2006 on, that's when it becomes dicey. So I agree with you to an extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Comparisons, to Belle as a player aside, the point was the length of the financial commitment and the possibility of a team eating such commitment without getting a player for the full term of it. That's exactly what I was getting at.. I would rather spend 15-16 mill on Maggs than take Griffey's contract. One dive too many and he will snap in half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 1-2 Mill isn't tha high of a figure, Dick. It's not like I am expecting Sosa-ian boom circa 1998 when he made the Cubs uncounted millions just with his name/presence. And I disagree about him getting hurt in spring training. It's not as if he is the second coming of Samuel L Jackson from Unbreakable. Again, were his contract just a few years shorter, I would do the deal. Now? Might be too high a risk as Rex mentioned. 4 years ago, I would agree with you, but not now. Chances are, he will get hurt again this year, and miss significant time. The same type of injuries happened to his father, and I think genetics may be involved. He can't help you with attendance if his sitting at home Last off season he worked out for the first time, and was in the best shape of his life. First he hurt his shoulder, than I believe it was his ankle. He is toast. Even when he played last year, he wasn't very good. He had Konerko like numbers. Scouts say his bat has slowed significantly.He will be like the 2001 edition of Harold Baines pretty soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Who cares if he brings a million or two extra in revenue in year one? That won't offset the $12.5 million salary. Everyone has said all season long that you can't give too much to one player and that with the Sox current payroll Maggs is too expensive at $14 million. Yet, the concept of adding another player at $12.5 million and one that is injury prone and on the downside of his career is a good one? C'mon Brando, time to change flavors of kool aid. Dude... I agree re: his post-2005 contract situ being a huge burden. Relax. But I also realize that: --In his prime Griffey was a significantly better than Maggs. --His name brings a few extra Mill in the bigger market compared to nameless Maggs, not by a lot but enough to FURTHER reduce his "cost". (quick math: if Sammy cost 10 Mill in 1998 but "brought in" 15 Mill just because he is Sammy....was he a strain on the Cubs payroll?). --We get rid of 14.8 Mill worth of Konerko and Koch in 2004 and 9 Mill worth of Konerko in 2005. If Reds can do something about 2006-2008 and beyond, then I am listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 My man, I am relaxed, didn't you see the beers? lol I understand your premise, I just don't feel as confident as you that Griffey can stay healthy or be good enough to be a major box office draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I would rather spend 15-16 mill on Maggs than take Griffey's contract Maggs isn't worth 12-13 Mill to the Sox let alone 15-16. Let's drop this Griffey business because it's not gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Let's drop this Griffey business because it's not gonna happen. I'll drink to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Ken Griffey Jr. and Chan Ho Park are the poster boys of why u shouldn't offa long term deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Ken Griffey Jr. and Chan Ho Park are the poster boys of why u shouldn't offa long term deals. Chan Ho Park is going to be the next rumor we are linked to, just you wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Chan Ho Park is going to be the next rumor we are linked to, just you wait. Well on the plus side Mr. Zero could hav a new buddy on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Hes from South Korea, lol Zero played on the same team as Ishii though, and is reportedly friends with him. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elcaballo45 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 So i take it not to many want this trade to happen or that since its most likely not going to happen, who cares? Because I personally would like to see this go thru, because Koch, even with Oakland 2 years ago, had more blown saves than any closer should have, and that was when he was throwing 100 MPH. He just got bailed out everytime he blew one and ended up with 10 wins i believe in 2002. Im thinking Griffey is a risk, but we do need a CF, and his defense would help tremendously, i just would feel bad for Rowand not playing. (Unless of course the "move Carlos to 1B, Rowand to LF" thing happens, but i dont see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Well on the plus side Mr. Zero could hav a new buddy on the team. That is why we're going to get Shingo, Nomo, and Choi too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 The Ken Griffey Jr trade rumor was floated here before. A source in Cincy said that baseball people there would be very, very surprised to see the Sox willing to take on Jr.'s contract. Ken Grifey is an interesting ballplayer to have on your team, but a big contract and prone to injuries makes you wonder if he would be worth the risk. As far as Billy Koch is concerned I didn't like the trade for Foulke either, but Billy is a competitor and maybe he can rebound. Konerko will rebound as he showed during the second half. I think this is just a rumor to get people talking and that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 While it would be interesting, the sox just can't take a change on griffey and didn't this rumor come up a couple months ago too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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