C.Rector Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Over on the WSI Forum at http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbullet...&threadid=29068 there is a thread starting with a questionnaire. Two of the questions deal with who was your favorite White Sox managers and your least favorite. Thus far, nobody has listed Gene Lamont as a manager that they liked and several have put him down as a manager that they disliked. This is only the latest example of something that I've noticed for a long time: The man who was the single most successful White Sox manager since Al Lopez (258-210 .551) is also a manager that hardly any Sox fans have anything nice to say about. Why is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Over on the WSI Forum at http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbullet...&threadid=29068 there is a thread starting with a questionnaire. Two of the questions deal with who was your favorite White Sox managers and your least favorite. Thus far, nobody has listed Gene Lamont as a manager that they liked and several have put him down as a manager that they disliked. This is only the latest example of something that I've noticed for a long time: The man who was the single most successful White Sox manager since Al Lopez (258-210 .551) is also a manager that hardly any Sox fans have anything nice to say about. Why is this? Just because you win when you have an abundance of talent, does not mean you are a good manager. LaMont was a terrible manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseballfreak Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Yeah talent isn't everything. Trust me...just look at the Red Sox. Great Talent, horrible manager last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I dont think Grady Little was "horrible" He helped bring that team to the ALCS against the f***ing yank$. I support his move of leaving pedro in. If he didn't leave him in and the bullpen f***ed up, he would still get blamed anyway cause of not letting pedro finish. If that result would had been different, I bet he would still be manager, and noone would even mention him as a bad manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 What's wrong with Lamont? It's a nice little town. When things were going well for the Sox, Gene Lamont was a good manager. When things turned sour, he was the scapegoat. It also didn't help that all of our starting pitchers starting tearing their arms up. I'll say this though - "Sleepy Gene" made Jerry Manuel look like the life of the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 When things were going well for the Sox, Gene Lamont was a good manager. When things turned sour, he was the scapegoat. It also didn't help that all of our starting pitchers starting tearing their arms up. I was very happy with Lamont and I have never bashed him. I rather like managers who bring us to division titles but I do sometimes feel rather alone in that. It seems like any time we have wona title, anyone could have managed that team but when we don't win, it is all the manager's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I don't remember the exact cliche, but "a coach is only as good as his players," or something to that effect. The collapse of the team wasn't all his fault - like I said, Fernandez, Bere, and Alvarez all developed career-altering arm injuries, and McDowell was gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I don't remember the exact cliche, but "a coach is only as good as his players," or something to that effect. The collapse of the team wasn't all his fault - like I said, Fernandez, Bere, and Alvarez all developed career-altering arm injuries, and McDowell was gone. That's not quite how I recollect it Past, IIRC the players came back from the strike out of shape and incredibly pissed off at their owner who had traded away their staff ace and proceded to go 10-20 or something like that and Lamont took the fall for it. Also, Fernandez was never hurt while with the Sox, Alverez was almost the same way, and Bere didn't start his injury spiral til '96 long after Lamont was gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I think Fred Sanford summed it up the best when he said to Lamont: "Hey Dummy!" I liked Lamont, though...it was Rollo who got on my nerves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 That's not quite how I recollect it Past, IIRC the players came back from the strike out of shape and incredibly pissed off at their owner who had traded away their staff ace and proceded to go 10-20 or something like that and Lamont took the fall for it. that is just about how I remember it I remember doing a lot of screaming about how are we suppsoed to win without the Cy Young pitcher, Manager of the Year manager, Julio Franco and Darrin Jackson. Gees I used to repeat that a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I don't remember the exact cliche, but "a coach is only as good as his players," or something to that effect Was Phil only as good as Michael Jordan? Bowman as good as Yzerman? A coach/manager can win 5 games a season just by being "better" than peers, Easy. Luck plays some part, too, but over time it evens out. Lou Pinella or Mike Sciossa couldn't do anything with their untalented/injury-prone clubs. But you bet your ass Sox would have won ALC with them last year. No doubt in my mind, wahtsoever. To let Jerry Manuel off the hook would be criminally unfair. I am not even going to go into such unmeasurable things as player motivation, clubhouse control, etc. Look at his line-up tinkering. Look at his asinine substitutions. Look at how his players were unprepared fundamentally. Considering we were 2 games in first in mid-Sept, Jerry Manual was a big reason we failed in 2003. Koch, Konerko, Rios, Wright, White screwed up big time....but Jerry Manuel alone could have changed the momentum. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Rector Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 A coach/manager can win 5 games a season just by being "better" than peers, Easy. To let Jerry Manuel off the hook would be criminally unfair. I am not even going to go into such unmeasurable things as player motivation, clubhouse control, etc. Look at his line-up tinkering. Koch, Konerko, Rios, Wright, White screwed up big time....but Jerry Manuel alone could have changed the momentum. IMO. How do you know that Manuel and his tinkering didn't add 5 games to the Sox so that they won 86 games instead of 81? Why not wait until the end of the upcoming season before making these judgments about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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