LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 i would say that hanoi jane committed treason because she actually went over to north vietnam and spoke out against the US...thats providing aid and comfort to the enemy.. kerry , although not a favorite of mine did serve his country when called upon and after his service exercised his constituational rights (which he just got through fighting for) to protest the actions of our governemnt...thats far from treasonist activity imo (unless something comes out where he did go to north vietnam or sent them money or something) Baggs, I agree with your Kerry comments. Calling him a traitor does a disservice to the word traitor. It's like anti-Semite. That gets thrown around so much now that it's losing all of it's meaning. Benedict Arnold was a traitor. Kerry went in-country and fought. It just pisses me off that Rove is trying to spin this to make him look like a traitor. I don't know how many people have read JH Hatfield's biography of Bush but he paints him in a positive and negative light on certain issues. It's an entire book of his childhood to running for President. In the book it discusses a lot about the murky circumstances of Bush getting into the TX Air National Guard in the first place and there is some evidence showing that it was his daddy and his daddy's CIA and oil businessman connections that got George Jr. into the Guard despite being low on the list with thousands of people ahead of him with better test scores. It's by no means conclusive but like CK said "where there's smoke, there's usually fire." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Baggs, I agree with your Kerry comments. Calling him a traitor does a disservice to the word traitor. It's like anti-Semite. That gets thrown around so much now that it's losing all of it's meaning. Benedict Arnold was a traitor. Kerry went in-country and fought. It just pisses me off that Rove is trying to spin this to make him look like a traitor. I don't know how many people have read JH Hatfield's biography of Bush but he paints him in a positive and negative light on certain issues. It's an entire book of his childhood to running for President. In the book it discusses a lot about the murky circumstances of Bush getting into the TX Air National Guard in the first place and there is some evidence showing that it was his daddy and his daddy's CIA and oil businessman connections that got George Jr. into the Guard despite being low on the list with thousands of people ahead of him with better test scores. It's by no means conclusive but like CK said "where there's smoke, there's usually fire." Question for you: Do you think he got into Harvard Business School the same way? I mean, they are 100% against this kind of thing, and always was. Granted, he had the minimal qualifications to get in, but he did meet their requirements and consequently has an MBA. They don't play favorites there, either. In fact Harvard has been known to get rid of "celebrity" students to make a point to NOT tarnish their repuation and history. So, his time was up on old aircraft, they let him go, and he went to school. Again, it all comes back to if these guys were you and me, NONE of this matters, legit reasons for being at guard or not. Adulterous or not. Drunk driving incident or not. NONE of this matters until you open yourself up to run for POTUS. THEN, it all matters. The differentiation is that it seems like Dems are digging up crap from 4 years ago - at least when the whole impeachment thing was over, it was OVER. It would be like four years later bringing up Monica spitting on Clinton's schlong in a different angle. It's OLD. MOVE ON. If the media keeps going on this national guard thing, it will backfire. It's hard, because everyone screws up. And I'm not saying that people have to be saints, but it saddens me that we are all so much into "who cares about the personal, adulterer stuff" when it's a character issue - and character matters. For that reason alone GWB doesn't deserve to be in office either. But you do you pick on a "lesser of two evils" situation? It then goes back to idealology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Just about the reaction Id expect from such an ardent Democrat. Kerry has more dirt on him than a 5 year old in a mud puddle and you guys cant deal with it. asking for facts is what a Democrat does I simply asked explain why Nixon's justice department never charged him you can't explain something so you respond with trash talk, and yes, that will always be my reaction - to look for reality you can't handle the truth it is the ardent republicans who spin fastasy as their own imagined reality sorry I offended you a very legitimate question that fact-checks the baseless accusation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 As long as it was between consentual adults, why it this an issue at all? Adultry is for Kerry and his wife (and the other woman) to work through/part ways. its a huge issue...how can you say its not..look what happened to gore's campiagn because of what clinton did..gore should have been able to ride the coat tails of clinton the same way H did reagan's.. it also becomes an issue to me because kerry was in office during the clinton scandal and knows all too well what that scandal did the democratic party...he would have to be a total egomaniac or a complete dumbass to run for president if these stories of an affair are true..either way..i dont i want him as president.....he put his own interests ahead of what was good for the country and his party...another major scandal of infidelity to rock the democratic party right now would kill any chance of any dem beating bush...while you think its no big deal , voters in the south and rural midwestern states would definately think otherwise. if this is proven true...every democrat should be furious with kerry... no one in the dem party held clinton accountable and it sunk gore in '00...if this is true and the dem party takes your view that its no big deal...party's credibility is shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 its a huge issue...how can you say its not..look what happened to gore's campiagn because of what clinton did..gore should have been able to ride the coat tails of clinton the same way H did reagan's.. it also becomes an issue to me because kerry was in office during the clinton scandal and knows all too well what that scandal did the democratic party...he would have to be a total egomaniac or a complete dumbass to run for president if these stories of an affair are true..either way..i dont i want him as president.....he put his own interests ahead of what was good for the country and his party...another major scandal of infidelity to rock the democratic party right now would kill any chance of any dem beating bush...while you think its no big deal , voters in the south and rural midwestern states would definately think otherwise. if this is proven true...every democrat should be furious with kerry... no one in the dem party held clinton accountable and it sunk gore in '00...if this is true and the dem party takes your view that its no big deal...party's credibility is shot Roberto, I thought you was a Republican. Why do you care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 What is treason? Treason is defined as "providing aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war". Isint that punishable by the death penalty? What is treason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Roberto, I thought you was a Republican. Why do you care? i am a republican...i just cant believe after the clinton fiasco that if these allegations are true that there are still people out there saying it doesnt matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Fan, This is meant to be in the most nuetral way possible, I promise. But, why should it NOT matter that a person is unethical, immoral, adultrous, etc. when running for POTUS? Everyone's human, but it gets me when people (I'm not trying to label you, I'm really not but you raise the issue) say "oh, THAT's none of our business". Adultry matters to me in the sense that he can't keep a committment to those who are closest to him, why would he keep any sort of committment while in office? And to those that will use this as a vice against GW, I agree. This is a two way street. Choices of a personal nature like this matter, or at least they should, when you decide that you want to lead the most powerful country in the world. So if GW did crack, committed adultry, etc. I'd say the same thing. But let me make one HUGE distinction here. Whenever something like this comes out from Democratic circles, they spin it like there's no tomorrow by saying just what you say. It's just SEX, it doesn't matter. Well, I guess Republicans do too but not as much as Dems do that I have seen. Our countries moral's have been so degraded and we've all been so desensitized. And it sucks. Our judgement, collectively, will come. I for one hope I'm not around to see it. Thats my problem. I'll admit GW made mistakes and that he definately had some personal flaws, but at the same time, while democrats will persecute him for those flaws (crackhead remarks, awol remarks) then when the side is flipped, its a non issue. This stuff happens both ways, but ya, to me it makes a difference when someones an adultery. I think of it as a dispicable act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Baggs, I agree with your Kerry comments. Calling him a traitor does a disservice to the word traitor. It's like anti-Semite. That gets thrown around so much now that it's losing all of it's meaning. Benedict Arnold was a traitor. Kerry went in-country and fought. It just pisses me off that Rove is trying to spin this to make him look like a traitor. I don't know how many people have read JH Hatfield's biography of Bush but he paints him in a positive and negative light on certain issues. It's an entire book of his childhood to running for President. In the book it discusses a lot about the murky circumstances of Bush getting into the TX Air National Guard in the first place and there is some evidence showing that it was his daddy and his daddy's CIA and oil businessman connections that got George Jr. into the Guard despite being low on the list with thousands of people ahead of him with better test scores. It's by no means conclusive but like CK said "where there's smoke, there's usually fire." I don't have the statistics but in one of my classes we discussed the vietnam war in depth and I always thought of the national guard as a do nothing position, but according to my teacher and the book during vietnam there were plenty of people in the national guard sent over and fought for this country there. Not saying Bush did, but I'm saying that just becuase you were in the national guard at that time, didn't mean you had a cushion position. I don't know if he went awol or if he didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I don't have the statistics but in one of my classes we discussed the vietnam war in depth and I always thought of the national guard as a do nothing position, but according to my teacher and the book during vietnam there were plenty of people in the national guard sent over and fought for this country there. Not saying Bush did, but I'm saying that just becuase you were in the national guard at that time, didn't mean you had a cushion position. I don't know if he went awol or if he didn't. i believe about 10% of the casualties in nam were gaurd/reserve members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Just about the reaction Id expect from such an ardent Democrat. Kerry has more dirt on him than a 5 year old in a mud puddle and you guys cant deal with it. and getting DUIs and snorting lines of coke isn't dirt? Going AWOL? Clean as a whistle, right? God forbid Kerry is anti-war, and anyone who questions his service in Vietnam is just reaching. He was highly decorated, mind telling me how he is "committing treason" by changing his mind about war AFTER HE FOUGHT? Are WW2 vets who are anti-war committing treason? As to the "actual" report, it's has no weight or merit at all. Not one major news corporation has picked up the story and ran with it, not even Fox News. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 "committing treason" Treason Posted again because no one seems to care. U.S. Soldier Charged With Trying To Provide Information To Al-Qaida POSTED: 5:55 PM EST February 12, 2004 SEATTLE -- A National Guardsman stationed at Fort Lewis was arrested Thursday and charged by the Army with trying to provide information to the al-Qaida terrorist network, a federal law enforcement official said. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the Associated Press that Spc. Ryan G. Anderson was charged with "aiding the enemy by wrongfully attempting to communicate and give intelligence to the al-Qaida terrorist network." It was not immediately known what information Anderson allegedly provided. Anderson was being held at Fort Lewis, an Army base near Tacoma. A message left with the Lt. Col. Stephen Barger at Fort Lewis was not immediately returned Thursday. Base spokesman Joe Hitt said he was not aware of the report, and messages left with Army officials at the Pentagon were not immediately returned. Anderson, 26, is a tank crew member from the National Guard's 81st Armor Brigade, a 4,000-member unit set to depart for Iraq for a one-year deployment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Treason Posted again because no one seems to care. I care Cheat, Yeah What a duesch bag, Gives a bad name to the army that is unwarrented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Treason Posted again because no one seems to care. If those charges against that soldier are true he needs to be stood up against a wall and shot and I wouldnt mind pulling the trigger myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Let's not forget that Kerry left his first wife to marry a RICHER wife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Let's not forget that Kerry left his first wife to marry a RICHER wife! Yeah, but like Leno said last night, he's just holding up his campaign promise to go after the wealthy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Yeah, but like Leno said last night, he's just holding up his campaign promise to go after the wealthy... and gosh darn it, if he has to he will marry each and every wealthy woman in the United States and abroad if he has to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I heard this joke today: W's poll #s are the exact same as his father's were in popularity around this time 12 years ago when he lost to Clinton. Kerry, not a superstitious man, has decided though to f*** anything that moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 dont hate kerry just cause he's going to kick bush's ass. i know how smart successful people from mass scare people around here, but let's not resort to childish mud-slinging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 i am a republican...i just cant believe after the clinton fiasco that if these allegations are true that there are still people out there saying it doesnt matter... Sorry I expressed my opinion. I still think it doesn't. I don't really care where the guy's dick has been. That is not to say I think adultery is okay, I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Let's not forget that Kerry left his first wife to marry a RICHER wife! my recollection is that he was already divorced when he and Teresa Heinz hooked up - I could be wrong but that is my recollection are you against divorced people as president? Before you answer, remember Reagan was having an affair with Nancy Davis while still married to Jane Wyman and Reagan remains our only divorced president. To me, what Reagan did was not a reflection on his qualification as president nor was Clinton's daillance but to attack Kerry, you better be prepared to spit on and attack Reagan - it needs to be appllied to all sides. just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 To elaborate on my post after reading CW's post, many men and women are guilty of adultery at some point in their lives. This doesn't make it okay, I am merely stating a fact. If this is a disqualification to be pres, we just cut out many congressman (repubs and demos) and a large portion of the US. This is a question not an accusation of any sort so no panty bunching please, didn't Bush Jr. admit to some sort of affair? One way or another I don't care and it isn't the reason why I can't stand Bush. I am more concerned on what they can do as president - foreign relations, economy, women's issues (surprise there, huh?), health insurance, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 FanOf14, I think marital infedelity is important insofar as their legislation can be seen as hypocritical. I mean, when a lot of Republicans are for a "sanctity of marriage" amendment to ban gay marriage...how can their reverence for the sanctity of marriage be believed if they violate it themselves. That's when I think infidelity is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 FanOf14, I think marital infedelity is important insofar as their legislation can be seen as hypocritical. I mean, when a lot of Republicans are for a "sanctity of marriage" amendment to ban gay marriage...how can their reverence for the sanctity of marriage be believed if they violate it themselves. That's when I think infidelity is important. good point there Apu !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 FanOf14, I think marital infedelity is important insofar as their legislation can be seen as hypocritical. I mean, when a lot of Republicans are for a "sanctity of marriage" amendment to ban gay marriage...how can their reverence for the sanctity of marriage be believed if they violate it themselves. That's when I think infidelity is important. I thought that was where they were coming from. I am fine with their views. I am just trying to get across mine differ and why - I get a little pissed when people insinuate that I am stupid for not seeing their way. I guess it also puts me at odds with that opinion because I think gay marriage is fine - if you don't like gay marriage, don't have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.