YASNY Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 I'll say this much. I just missed the draft lottery by virtue of my age. However, if I could have legally done something to avoid the draft, I would have done it. They sent those guys to Viet Nam to fight but not to win. JFK and LBJ and RMN were the real traitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 I'll say this much. I just missed the draft lottery by virtue of my age. However, if I could have legally done something to avoid the draft, I would have done it. They sent those guys to Viet Nam to fight but not to win. JFK and LBJ and RMN were the real traitors. Agreed, and families of privilege had more avenues for avoiding the Viet Nam era draft. Some avenues were clearly legal, some perhaps questionably or marginall legal, but the motive of avoiding combat duty is not hard to fathom. Letting the children from families of lesser means do the fighting, killing and dying while the upper crust stays here and waves the flag the highest is a kind of tradition here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 I'll say this much. I just missed the draft lottery by virtue of my age. However, if I could have legally done something to avoid the draft, I would have done it. They sent those guys to Viet Nam to fight but not to win. JFK and LBJ and RMN were the real traitors. The first date pulled was July 9th.... Jim's birthday. He was already in the Guard when the draft took place so he stayed put - but a very surreal time.. I've been told Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 14, 2004 Author Share Posted February 14, 2004 A retired Alabama Air National Guard officer said Friday that he remembered George W. Bush showing up for duty in Alabama in 1972, reading safety magazines and flight manuals in an office as he performed his weekend obligations. "I saw him each drill period," retired Lt. Col. John "Bill" Calhoun said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press from Daytona Beach, Fla., where he is preparing to watch this weekend's big NASCAR race. "He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He never complained about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was doing in the Guard. He showed up on time, and he left at the end of the day." Calhoun, whose name was supplied to the AP by a Republican close to Bush, is the first member of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group to recall Bush distinctly at the Alabama base in the period of 1972-1973. He was the unit's flight safety officer. The 69-year-old president of an Atlanta insulation company said Bush showed up for work at Dannelly Air National Guard Base for drills on at least six occasions. Bush and Calhoun had been trained as fighter pilots, and Calhoun said the two would swap "war stories" and even eat lunch together on base. Calhoun is named in 187th unit rosters obtained by the AP as serving under the deputy commander of operations plans. Bush was in Alabama on non-flying status. No wonder Kerry is not running with this issue. Try again morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 No wonder Kerry is not running with this issue. Try again morons. Try again, Nuke...the evidence is still murky one way or the other with no conclusive proof. Try reading the SpinSanity article I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/17932.htm Looks to me like the people pushing the Bush AWOL stories around here arent the only ones f***ed in the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 http://www.memphisflyer.com/content.asp?ID=2834&onthefly=1 There's more and more evidence that W didn't show up, Nuke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 http://www.memphisflyer.com/content.asp?ID=2834&onthefly=1 There's more and more evidence that W didn't show up, Nuke. Evidence doesn't sway some people, Apu. Maybe these two also have Alzheimer's? Maybe the whole company from Alabama at the time has Alsheimer's?? What the Bush camp needs to do is find the guy who doctored up the bulls*** Kerry/Fonda image and get Dubya Photoshop'd into some 1973 Alabama Guard pix pronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 Evidence doesn't sway some people, Apu. You are absolutely right about that one. You guys, Apu especially, were all yelling about Bush being a "deserter" and "awol" and now that more and more evidence comes out that he wasn't all those nasty things you called him you are all mad about it. That's ok though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Some guy says he was there, a few more say he wasn't. Of course the first guy is lying. As was the officer who issued his honorable discharge. And the guy who issued his paychecks for showing up. I'm also certain that if a few more guys show up to say they served with him they will be accused of lying for money or something. Bush has been criticized for not visiting dead soldiers, and then criticized more harshly for visiting living soldiers. No matter what the guy does, he will be criticized for it. It's an election year...it's to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Umm.... Bush: NO MORE YEARS!! NO MORE YEARS!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 just as Saddam had look a likes, it is clear Bush had his own dopplegangers showing up in Bush's place so Bush could par-tay while his double reported for the desk job after Bush's clearance to fly was taken away for not showing up... and here is an unretouched pic of Bush and Bush's double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 OMG THATS SO RACIST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Some guy says he was there, a few more say he wasn't. Of course the first guy is lying. As was the officer who issued his honorable discharge. And the guy who issued his paychecks for showing up. I'm also certain that if a few more guys show up to say they served with him they will be accused of lying for money or something. Bush has been criticized for not visiting dead soldiers, and then criticized more harshly for visiting living soldiers. No matter what the guy does, he will be criticized for it. It's an election year...it's to be expected. Oh I see, when you hear/read information about [GW and his getting through ahead of hundereds of applicants who barely passed the minimal requirements and whether or not he went AWOL] that doesn't sync w/ your preconceived notions the information must be "biased" and "motivated" by some sort of agenda. Lovely. Sort of like you when you're busy dismissing the objective results of a standardized test? If you don't think opinions like the one offered are subject to other considerations, you're naive. For instance, Bush's commander, Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, was apparently so pleased to have a VIP's son in his unit that he staged a special ceremony so he could have his picture taken administering the oath, instead of the captain who actually had sworn Bush in. Later, when Bush was commissioned a second lieutenant by another subordinate, Staudt again staged a special ceremony for the cameras, this time with Bush's father the Congressman – a supporter of the Vietnam War – standing proudly in the background. If he danced like that for a Congressman's son, you think Col. Staudt would be able to critically assess the flight skills of a President? That's the point re: Bush—did he actually serve? He got into flight school (albeit with the lowest possible score of 25 percent), and he checked the box marked "no" on one form that asked him if he would serve in Vietnam. Ergo, his daddy pulled strings to get him into the NG so he would not have to serve in Vietnam. And in 1972, after the military started testing for drugs, he chose to go AWOL over getting that flight physical. Being a veteran myself I can vouch for the U.S. Military as being the most egalitarian society on earth. You are judged solely by your performance, abilities and actions. Then it's a pretty staggering coincidence that the unit also included, beside Congressman Bush's son, the son of Senator Lloyd Bentsen, the son of Governor John Connally, the son of Senator John Tower and at least seven members of the Dallas Cowboys. (The question of your naivete is now settled once and for all). So you have evidence that the other candidates had a desire to join the NG? And you also have evidence to support your theory that they were passed on b/c their father's weren't congressmen? -- You don't have evidence do you? Again, you're pulling more conjecture from your ass. Now you're pitiful. Are you really saying that the other, less well-connected candidates were sort of ambivalent about the National Guard vs. active duty in Viet Nam question, took the test on a lark, and after receiving their 25th percentile scores just sort of shrugged and gleefully packed off to Saigon? Do you have proof there wasn't a waiting list Bush jumped to the front of? Because I'll happily provide you evidence there was, whether you can accept it--or comprehend it--or not. That post is but a FOOTNOTE to the Debya '72 saga. I cannot believe you are supporting this cowardly, amoral imbecil. But then again, what CHOICE do YOU personally have? John MaCain? Colin Powell? Please. On a somwhat related subject, I DO love this quote: "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - J. K. Galbraith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Dental records and 1 guy saying something is not conclusive evidence that he did anything. If they believed this they could have come out and said things before instead of waiting all this time. The opposition to Bush came out a long time ago and stated that he was most likely not in Alabama in 1972-1973 because there is no evidence where he was for months on end. There is a lack of conclusive 100% incontrovertible evidence, but I'm very apprehensive to give Bush the benefit of the doubt given his track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Dental records and 1 guy saying something is not conclusive evidence that he did anything. If they believed this they could have come out and said things before instead of waiting all this time. The opposition to Bush came out a long time ago and stated that he was most likely not in Alabama in 1972-1973 because there is no evidence where he was for months on end. There is a lack of conclusive 100% incontrovertible evidence, but I'm very apprehensive to give Bush the benefit of the doubt given his track record. I am looking forward to James Moore's book. It's said to have some pretty damning piece of evidence in it. This stuff is not easy to prove if you understand that we're walking about 3 decades ago here and hundreds of millions if not billions are on the line. As far as eye-witnesses coming forward.....I can't speak for other people, but put a knife next to my nutsac and I'll "corroborate" anything you want me to. Bribes historically work well on many people as well. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 just as Saddam had look a likes, it is clear Bush had his own dopplegangers showing up in Bush's place so Bush could par-tay while his double reported for the desk job after Bush's clearance to fly was taken away for not showing up... and here is an unretouched pic of Bush and Bush's double LOL!!!!!! That's funny a hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 Dental records and 1 guy saying something is not conclusive evidence that he did anything. If they believed this they could have come out and said things before instead of waiting all this time. The opposition to Bush came out a long time ago and stated that he was most likely not in Alabama in 1972-1973 because there is no evidence where he was for months on end. There is a lack of conclusive 100% incontrovertible evidence, but I'm very apprehensive to give Bush the benefit of the doubt given his track record. Having doubts is one thing but there is a lot of evidence on both sides of this issue but that doesn't seem to stop you and those like you from throwing out wild accusations that he was a deserter or AWOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Having doubts is one thing but there is a lot of evidence on both sides of this issue but that doesn't seem to stop you and those like you from throwing out wild accusations that he was a deserter or AWOL. Would it matter to you if he DID and it was PROVEN? I doubt it. You hate liberals too much. Worst comes the worst, you'd say it was long time ago. You'd say riding a silver spoon to the NG is still better than decamping to Canada. AWOL from a rich-boy haven? Meh. Coke? Doesn't matter. Grand bribery and assorted corporate fraud later on? Who cares. War crimes? Clinton's fault. At least I am upfront in that Kerry's dalliances do not interest me. Are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 Would it matter to you if he DID and it was PROVEN? I doubt it. You hate liberals too much. Worst comes the worst, you'd say it was long time ago. You'd say riding a silver spoon to the NG is still better than decamping to Canada. AWOL from a rich-boy haven? Meh. Coke? Doesn't matter. Grand bribery and assorted corporate fraud later on? Who cares. War crimes? Clinton's fault. At least I am upfront in that Kerry's dalliances do not interest me. Are you? I do hate liberals a lot but what I hate more is people making wild and unsubstantiated accusations out of blind hatred of the man. You prove to me that he was a "deserter" or "AWOL" and I'll buy it but nobody can. From what I've seen on this issue is that Bush missed a couple of drills at the worst and made them up later on. Missing drills is a pretty common thing in the Guard, not that you'd know, but as long as you make them up then its all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 You prove to me that he was a "deserter" or "AWOL" and I'll buy it Will you, though? That's what I am asking. From what I've seen on this issue is that Bush missed a couple of drills at the worst That's debatable and so are his REASONS for doing so. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 That post is but a FOOTNOTE to the Debya '72 saga. I cannot believe you are supporting this cowardly, amoral imbecil. But then again, what CHOICE do YOU personally have? John MaCain? Colin Powell? Please. On a somwhat related subject, I DO love this quote: "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - J. K. Galbraith I'm sorry, but I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Personally, I don't give a f*** about what Bush did in 1972. Well, that's not true. I only care so much as to worry that other dumbf***s, present company excluded of course, do care and will vote the man out of office. I don't know what other's situations are, but mine are so that all I care about is the policies and actions of the government, and I agree with those of the current administration. Fighting terrorism overseas seems to me to be the only reasonable course of action in that arena. As a matter of fact, I haven't heard any other courses of action suggested. The Democratic candidates were all for the course followed, until it came time to run for office. The economy? The economy is making a comeback, as most every indicator shows. The class warfare bulls*** spewed by the Democratic opposition is ridiculous. Only a true politician could b**** about people who don't pay taxes not getting a tax cut, as Democrats did. I'm also sick and tired of hearing Dems b**** about people making money. They sound like Communists, "From each according to his means, to each according to his needs." If I do have a gripe, it's with the outlandish spending of the Bush administration, but surely the Dems won't be cutting spending. So, I can support a guy who is attacking terrorism, putting more money in my pocket, is turning around the economy, and spending boatloads of dollars, or a guy who will probably send America back into a shell and hope for the best, revoke economic policies that are working, and in the process will spend a fleet of boatloads of dollars. To me, the choice is obvious. So, you want to make your decisions based on morals? Well, good luck. Bush, as people claim, was a coke snorting, drunk driving, shirker. The alternative, Kerry, is a gigallo, alleged adulterer, alleged enough so that his second wife demanded a prenup, backs policies and jumps off them to suit his political needs, and participated in very questionable activities after Vietnam. As a matter of fact, perhaps America's most morally pure president was Jimmy Carter. How'd that guy work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I'm also sick and tired of hearing Dems b**** about people making money. They sound like Communists, "From each according to his means, to each according to his needs." Yeah, what a horrible, horrible concept. Charity, compassion, fraternity, justice.....appeasing the (relatively) poor majority so they don't eat you alive. All very evil. Economy is on the upswing and everything is working? It's partly an illusion as has been recently discussed by kapkomet and southsider among others. Just because we are not in the late-2000/2001-esque free fall anymore, doesn't mean the upward cycle swing is upon us. Just how healthy IS the economy? Low/middle classes don't pay taxes? Since when? Sky-rocketing budget deficits; circumvention of UN authority; unapologetic corporate cum-guzzling culminating in the unprecedented intelligence fraud and the subsequent invasion/Oil War; deteriorating foreign relations and image; police state-happy civil rights-usurping domestic policy; minority rights encroachment, with Constitutional ramifications; of course failing education and healthcare reforms go without saying.....Those and other neo-con follies will be paid in full with the blood and sweat and freedoms of current and future generations three-fold. It's not empty rhetoric, its not demagoguery...it's a scary reality. This admin has failed spectacularly in every respect. But at least you're honest with regard to your expectations and assesment of the current administration. Major kudos, Bob. Now if I could only get Nuke to re-enact the kabuki version of "Greed is Good" speech from Wall Street..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 Yeah, what a horrible, horrible concept. Charity, compassion, fraternity, justice.....appeasing the (relatively) poor majority so they don't eat you alive. All very evil. Now if I could only get Nuke to re-enact the kabuki version of "Greed is Good" speech from Wall Street..... Charity & compassion are great things as long as you dont have an intrusive government forcing you to be charitible through overtaxation. Reference the "greed is good" thing the reason people work hard and try to excel in this country is the acquisition of money and the promise of a better life. You take that away and people will do just the bare minimum and no more. The Soviet Union was a prime example of that. Why should one work hard and try to excel if they are going to end up no better than the lazy guy next door? Everyone complains about jobs moving to Mexico & the far east and the like. That really sucks but in the final analysis that's just too bad. Companies are not in business for the purpose of employing people, they are in business to make money. They are not beholden to their workers, they are beholden to shareholders. The only way to stop companies from seeking out cheaper labor overseas is for the government to stop it by way of laws. But that is not feasible because then you'd have to shred the constitution, haul down the Stars and Stripes and raise that disgusting flag you have in your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 But that is not feasible because then you'd have to shred the constitution, haul down the Stars and Stripes and raise that disgusting flag you have in your signature. I'll take my sig over yours. Also: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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