CubKilla Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I don't think anybody should say dick about the movie until they've seen it. All of this deepseated hatred for a movie hardly anyone here has even seen. Once you've seen it, then make your judgment. Until then, stuff it. I love how a few of the movie reviews I've read about "The Passion" that claim it is anti-semitic are reaching far to grasp an anti-semitic scene or interpretation. To the contrary, most rabbi's across the country that have been interviewed after seeing the film claim there is no anti-semitism. The only one's claiming that there was are the close-minded individuals that were screaming anti-semitism when they found out Mel Gibson was creating a film based on The Passion Play BEFORE they even saw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 however CK the script has been circulating for a year many who object have seen it in pre screenings the second review baggio posted on whitesox.com went to the heart of the antisemitic twist in the movie i will grant some will see the movie and not see the antisemitic stuff but others will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 this is baggio's other posted review and have to ask him the source diffeent critics will see it different February 24, 2004 -- MANY of mankind's most beautiful and ennobling artistic achievements depict or were inspired by the crucifixion. Mel Gibson's "Passion," though well-acted, technically impressive and initially moving, is for the most part not beautiful and certainly not ennobling. Indeed, it is overwrought, sadistic way beyond the point of overkill, and oddly, spiritually dry given its subject. But then, unlike the great Passions of the past, it is a product of a distinctly perverted sensibility. In Gibson's crudely effective, blood-soaked epic "Braveheart," there was little compassion or feeling - but a great deal of savage brutality culminating in one of the torture scenes that Gibson has relished as an actor. In "Passion," the relish for pain and bloody cruelty that has marked his career as both a director and an actor - a relish that would almost be sensual in the hands of a less vulgar artist - boils over into a full-blown fetish. The relentless whippings, beatings and scourgings (the latter is barely mentioned in the Gospels but takes up a whole reel of film) start early and then intensify, in slow-motion and close-up, with the impact of each blow amped up like in "Rocky." Eventually, "Passion" becomes a kind of pornographic catalog of Christ's suffering. And like pornography, it's initially powerful but eventually becomes numbing. This would matter less if there was much else in the film besides blows and slashes accompanied by gasps of pain and ribbons of blood. (The procession to Calvary is a kind of orgy of savagery.) What distinguishes the film from the long tradition of gruesome martyrology in religious art is its lack of any sense of the meaning or reason for Christ's sacrifice. The message of Jesus' death is all but drowned in Gibson's morbid enthusiasm for shots of metal tearing flesh, as if Christ was crucified so that Gibson - along with his hard-working make-up and sound people - could indulge his obsession with torture. The narrative begins in the Garden of Gethsemane (which looks like a German forest) with the arrest of Jesus (Jim Caviezel) and some of the disciples hiding out from the Temple authorities and ends with the Resurrection. (The arrest takes place after a brutal fight that uses so much slow motion and so many heavily amplified blows that it feels like you're watching a Hong Kong action movie.) Some episodes from before then are shown in flashback, including moments from the Last Supper. Though I'm not a Christian, I could see why many would find "Passion" moving if - and it's a big if - they could get past the gratuitous violence. Nor do I believe it will provoke pogroms, if only because the film is probably too slow to work as rabble-rousing propaganda, whatever the intentions of its maker. Gibson's "Passion" generally sticks to the Gospels in the details of its narrative but, like the medieval Passion Plays it resembles, it cherry-picks among them so as to make the Jewish (as opposed to the Roman) role in Christ's death as dark as possible. This is mostly a matter of little details: For instance, Barabbas, the criminal who is set free by thoughtful Roman governor Pontius Pilate (Hristo Naumov Shopov) in place of Jesus, is depicted here as a crazed one-eyed murderer rather than a mere thief or bandit. More reprehensibly - and this is where Gibson does seem motivated by anti-Semitic prejudice - the inexplicably, bottomlessly malevolent Jewish priests and crowds who call for his death are portrayed almost to a man by stereotypically Jewish-looking actors with large hooked noses, while all the good characters are not, like Pilate and the sympathetic Roman soldier Abenader (Fabior Sartor). There is also a creepy anti-Semitic edge in the scene in which Judas and the high priest appear to haggle over 13 pieces of silver. There are some decent #### scattered about - one of the priests protests against Jesus' railroading and women in the crowd weep when he passes them - but several Romans, including some of the soldiers who brutalize Jesus, are shown as being moved by his suffering in way that isn't true of the ####. After Jesus' second or third brutalizing, the film seems to suggest not just that goodness corresponds with good looks, and badness with ugliness, but that you can tell what lurks in people's hearts by their teeth. All the really horrible people in the film are snaggletoothed, while all the good people - Jesus, the apostles, Pilate and his wife - are blessed with a full set of pearly whites. For a film that is so clearly intended to be true to the period (hence the dialogue in Aramaic and Latin) there are weird, wrong details, like the bread at the Last Supper which looks like an Italian loaf, not unleavened "matzoh" as it would have been. And for a sense of the real power relations between Romans and ####, this "Passion" gives the high priests and a small crowd of people in Jerusalem much more influence on their Roman overlords like Pilate (in real life a brutal tyrant) than they could possibly have exercised. "Monty Python's Life of Brian" offers a more accurate guide. The film also feels strangely cramped. This is partly a result of the relentless close-ups of a fantastically bloodied Jesus and his agonized disciples and partly because the crowds and locations are surprisingly small. During the film's few quiet moments, Caviezel, a handsome actor (best-known for his role in "The Thin Red Line"), suggests spiritual power as well as any actor who has played Jesus on the big screen, but he spends most of his screen time in almost mute agony. THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST Overwrought, sadistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 cw...just gotback home and saw your post..that review was from the new york post...the other was a sun times review by roger ebert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 During the film's few quiet moments, Caviezel, a handsome actor (best-known for his role in "The Thin Red Line"), What a beautiful, underrated movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I haven't seen the movie yet, but I feel that if you are a Christian that the way to approach the viewing of this movie is put out all the preconceived rhetoric you have heard about the movie. Forget your intellectual aspects, forget your politics. Go in to the movie with an open mind and ask God to guide you to the conclusion He would want you to come to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 What a beautiful, underrated movie. You liked that movie? I needed to pinch myself every 5 minutes to keep from falling asleep. Terrence Malick, wish you'd go away again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Terrence Malick, wish you'd go away again.... Why, so Michael Bay and Ron Howard can keep on polluting our precious bodily fluids? You'll be happy to know that TTRL is literally 100 hours long. Of course they had to cut it down to 2 and a half. Not easy. I mentioned Badlands in the Martin Sheen/West Wing thread. That's Malick. He had another solid flick with Gere and Brook Adams, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Why, so Michael Bay and Ron Howard can keep on polluting our precious bodily fluids? You'll be happy to know that TTRL is literally 100 hours long. Of course they had to cut it down to 2 and a half. Not easy. I mentioned Badlands in the Martin Sheen/West Wing thread. That's Malick. He had another solid flick with Gere and Brook Adams, I think. Yes, "Pearl Harbor" should be the standard of cinematic brilliance that all other films should strive to measure up to! Badlands was good, I guess I really don't hate TM, it was just that people made such a big deal about his return to filmmaking, and were saying how great TTRL was just because that was the cool thing to say. IMHO, once the "battle" scenes were done, this was how the itinerary read for the rest of the movie: Attach camera to homemade raft. Send raft down exotic river Read poetry and diary entries, to be heard as raft floats down river with camera Repeat for 16 hours Put gun in mouth, pull trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I really don't hate TM, it was just that people made such a big deal about his return to filmmaking, and were saying how great TTRL was just because that was the cool thing to say. I liked the movie way before I knew half the people in it, let alone Malick. Yeah, it's metaphorical, existential, poetic and all that other pretentious stuff. So what? Then again, Apocalypse Now is one of my favorite movies, so that's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I wonder what Village Voice's J. Hoberman has to say about it. The man has been right-on a lot in the last 20 years. These peeps, mostly college students and twentysomethings from Canada and US discuss the flick: http://www.fametracker.com/ijsbb/forum.cgi...s=20&s=date&g=0 Just make sure you click "show all messages" on the right -- it will take you back to Feb 17th 2004 when the thread was started. Otherwise, you'll only see what was posted today. Ok, so he's seen it now http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/author...&sortby=&page=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I haven't seen the movie yet, but I feel that if you are a Christian that the way to approach the viewing of this movie is put out all the preconceived rhetoric you have heard about the movie. I did exactly that. I wanted to judge this on my own accord. And to me, all the "anti-semtic" hype was totally unfounded. The only negative portrait of the Jews was a negative portrayal of the high council, which, by the way, was an accurate portrayal. They were the ones pushing for the death of Christ because he threatened their power. I really felt that excluding Pilot, the Romans were VERY negatively portrayed. Maybe deservingly, but of the 2, the Romans were the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 (The arrest takes place after a brutal fight that uses so much slow motion and so many heavily amplified blows that it feels like you're watching a Hong Kong action movie.) Honestly, I really liked that. The cinematographer in me (I am a video minor in college) liked how it added to the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 There is also a creepy anti-Semitic edge in the scene in which Judas and the high priest appear to haggle over 13 pieces of silver. WOW! Ok, that is REALLY reading WAY too much into that scene. SOme people really need to relax a little and not assume that everything is against them. What I got out of that scene is that the high priest wants Jesus dead and doesnt really care about the money, hence why he threw it to him. Judas was not a rich man, there for he WOULD have picked up every possible coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 WOW! Ok, that is REALLY reading WAY too much into that scene. SOme people really need to relax a little and not assume that everything is against them. Dammit, are you of the belief that Jews are the Chosen people or not!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 "one thing that bothers me greatly is that this movie passes itself off as exactly from the Gospels" To be fair, a lot of stuff was added for plot development. If we used STRICTLY the Bible and the Bible alone, the movie would have lasted maybe an hour and nothing would have been accomplished. You need to add other eliments to get the point across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Dammit, are you of the belief that Jews are the Chosen people or not!? huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 huh? Did I stuttttter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Did I stuttttter? I was a bit confused as to why you posed me that question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I was a bit confused as to why you posed me that question Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Huh? All I was saying earlier was that I can clearly see that who ever wrote that article went into it looking to rip it appart. They went in believeing it was anti-semetic and looked for all the evidence (big or small) to support his/her case. I do not believe he/she gave the movie a fair chance. I went into the movie expecting to see the Jews depicted as the worst people to walk the earth. After all, the media has made it seem that way. And when i walked out, I thought "I dont think they were bad people." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I did exactly that. I wanted to judge this on my own accord. And to me, all the "anti-semtic" hype was totally unfounded. The only negative portrait of the Jews was a negative portrayal of the high council, which, by the way, was an accurate portrayal. They were the ones pushing for the death of Christ because he threatened their power. I really felt that excluding Pilot, the Romans were VERY negatively portrayed. Maybe deservingly, but of the 2, the Romans were the worst. Glad to actually hear a review from someone who has actually seen the movie. Somehow I have a feeling that the only people that would come away from "The Passion" with anti-semitic feelings are those that believe the stereotypes but try their hardest to find the stereotypes unfounded in their life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Mel forgives you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 i like the joke at the end about turning the movie into a book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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