cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 I don't understand. So, no movie should ever be made that isn't historically correct? good question and the answer is of coiurse but be honest in advertizing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Who knew that so many people follow the word of Mel Gibson or were afraid that people would. And to think this whole time I thought it was his buns that attracted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 I was also born and raised Catholic but, I got over it. (Hi. my name is Flaxx, I am a recovering Catholic and I have been clean for 19 years.) Go back and dig into the now-infamous Palistinian-Israeli thread (if you dare), to see cw's and Soxy's educated responses to these claims. John Dominic Crossan is a former priest who has written 3 books on the historical, rather than the mythical, Jesus. His most recent book is Who Killed Jesus ?: Exposing the Roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus. It is controversial in that it flatly calls the Gospels' insistence on Jewish responsibility for Jesus' death "Christianity's longest lie." But the fact that Crossan is focusing extensively on the historical facts and not the Gospel's claims makes it a hard book to refute on any grounds other than faith-based grounds. He drives home the point that the Gospels are "prophesy historicized" and not accurate history, they look at the prophesies of the Old Testament and then make the current events of the day fit in with those prophesies. He points out that the early Christians were persecuted by the more numerous Jews, so a healthy dose of anti-Semitism tossed into the Gospels is not hard to understand. Crossan's chief contention is that it was the Romans that did the deed out of fear of civil unrest Jesus and his followers would bring to Judea. I started into the book sitting at Barnes and Noble one day last month and need to go buy it and read it through. thank you for emntioning the graet Bible scholar Crossan - your summary of his writings is excellent indeed and that is what I believe it was Rome that killed Jesus Rome When the 2nd generation Christians wanted to be recognised by Rome and after Rome had destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews were made scapegoats to absolve Rome The conflict that killed Jesus was to whom is highest allegiance owed: Rome, Ceasar, OR God. Render to Ceasar... render to God... Because Ceasar literaly claimed to be the Son of God, Jesus had to go. And the Romans did it in about 30 CE (aka 30 AD). After 70 AD - when the Gospels were written - it was prudent to blame someone other than Rome. And so it happened. But it is still in the accounts - the place where the phgrase "you are no friend of Ceasar" and "we have no king but Ceasar" are Roman words, not Jewish words - and that is why Rome killed Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Bible Scholar Crossan on the movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Bible Scholar Crossan on the movie It'll be interested to hear his reaction to the film after the confidentially waiver is over. Man, that's just awful.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Jewish/Hebrew is an ethnicity (probably what whoever that was, was trying to say rather than race). You can be a Jew who doesn't practice Judaism. Einstein, for example. Ok, I should have clarified for the rubes: it's a SUB-race (or rather, sub-division of a race), ethnicity. Semites, on the other hand, are a full-fledged RACE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 just like dentites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Or any movie that contains anti-semetic overtures. You got that right, Killa. What kind of a Hollywood Gay Jew Cabal would they be if they allowed such pro-Christ dreck to go through. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 jews , romans..i think its a pretty safe bet to say both had a hand in jesus ending up on the cross...but wasnt that reason jesus was sent to earth??...to be sacrificed for our sins??..if the romans , the jews , or whoever one wants to lay blame on who killed jesus didnt do it...we wouldnt be saved... it doesnt matter to me whether it was the romans or the jews who killed jesus...it was all part of God's plan so that we could walk with Him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 We don't go to the movies to learn about faith or history. We go for entertainment. Ok, you were speaking for yourself and yourself only. Got it. Since you only consider YOUR perspective/motives for wanting to see Passions.....I will spare you the whole Triumph of the Will/ propaganda/ fueling millenium-long religious and ethnic hatred lecture. You're welcome. Then again, whether you LEARN from or are AFFECTED by a movie is NOT up to YOU to decide. Your sub- and super-consciousness, over which we have little control, do most of the work for you. Reality check-- that's how the complex human psyche works. You can go in out of pure entertainment motives and leave totally transfixed and/or f***ed-up for life. And for such an escapist-minded person, you sure as hell picked the WRONG kind of a movie. It's VERY serious thematically, it's VERY real in how it depicts violence, etc, etc, etc. I would recommend, renting a Wedding Planner instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I will spare you the whole Triumph the Will/ propaganda/ fueling millenium-long religious and ethnic hatred lecture. Don't spare me - what was this movie all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 there are ways to tell the story without inferring "the Jews" killed Jesus and there are ways of telling it in a antiSemitic hate version and by all accouin ts of the script Gibson has gone for the latter way which is his andf his father's long held personal theology 1. There wouldn't much fun in being a hard-core Catholic if you couldn't tell the other side (jews, muslims, atheists, more moderate factions, etc) how morally wrong and historically f***ed-up they are, pesky facts and immoral truth-stretching be damned (npi). Without huge relevant controversy, why would people want see the movie, right? Last Temptation of Christ by that Greek dork had a VERY poor BO. It was no Braveheart epic. 2. Mel Gibson's father could give Aunuld's father a run for his money in the slimey-f*** department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 jews , romans..i think its a pretty safe bet to say both had a hand in jesus ending up on the cross...but wasnt that reason jesus was sent to earth??...to be sacrificed for our sins??..if the romans , the jews , or whoever one wants to lay blame on who killed jesus didnt do it...we wouldnt be saved... it doesnt matter to me whether it was the romans or the jews who killed jesus...it was all part of God's plan so that we could walk with Him... thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Don't spare me - what was this movie all about? on my list of best films ever - recent thread - also on most critics lists - it is about Nazis and the Nuremberg rallies of Hitler it is great cinema and revolutionized movie making with its shots and angles and other techniques it is about dreadful evil and hate and glorifies it it was on my list with those caveats to say the least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullcollapse Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 jews , romans..i think its a pretty safe bet to say both had a hand in jesus ending up on the cross...but wasnt that reason jesus was sent to earth??...to be sacrificed for our sins??..if the romans , the jews , or whoever one wants to lay blame on who killed jesus didnt do it...we wouldnt be saved... it doesnt matter to me whether it was the romans or the jews who killed jesus...it was all part of God's plan so that we could walk with Him... exactly, The point isn't who killed Him, but that He died. if we start arguing about who is responsible and for what reasons then you missed the point of the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Don't spare me - what was this movie all about? Google: "Hitler', "Leni Reifenstahl", "Aryan Superiority" "1936 Olympics" "Brain-washing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 exactly, The point isn't who killed Him, but that He died. if we start arguing about who is responsible and for what reasons then you missed the point of the whole thing. thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 jews , romans..i think its a pretty safe bet to say both had a hand in jesus ending up on the cross...but wasnt that reason jesus was sent to earth??...to be sacrificed for our sins??..if the romans , the jews , or whoever one wants to lay blame on who killed jesus didnt do it...we wouldnt be saved... it doesnt matter to me whether it was the romans or the jews who killed jesus...it was all part of God's plan so that we could walk with Him... Excellent, Bags! You put to words what I was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I'll see it, if only to satisfy my evil craving to find out what all you christians and jews are arguing about. It's a pretty good story, even if I don't believe 75% of it ever happened. Hey, Dominic Crossan. I believe I took a class of his when I was at DePaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Google: "Hitler', "Leni Reifenstahl", "Aryan Superiority" "1936 Olympics" "Brain-washing" oh oh, we disagree Triumph of the Will Triumph was the Nuremburg rallies - the 1936 Olympics was her movie "Olympiad" equally brilliant and horrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Hey, Dominic Crossan. I believe I took a class of his when I was at DePaul. damn it I envy you I really envy you that class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 on my list of best films ever - recent thread - also on most critics lists - it is about Nazis and the Nuremberg rallies of Hitler it is great cinema and revolutionized movie making with its shots and angles and other techniques it is about dreadful evil and hate and glorifies it it was on my list with those caveats to say the least Yeah, but the quesiton is, is it as good as Zelig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 oh oh, we disagree Triumph of the Will Triumph was the Nuremburg rallies - the 1936 Olympics was her movie "Olympiad" equally brilliant and horrible No I know, you're right, that fourth article was a total brain fart on my part. It should be replaced with the N-rallies. Jesse Ownes was pretty good, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 damn it I envy you I really envy you that class I don't remember much of the class, I only took it because I had to, but I remember him being a pretty interesting guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Excellent, Bags! You put to words what I was thinking. well, whether I said this same thing a day ago or not, my single prayer for this movie is that the TRUTH shines true and isn't diminished by the questionable "facts" of whodunit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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