Texsox Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The A Rod trade was the final straw in what is going to be a very s***ty year in Chicago baseball. We've taken a couple steps back while the Cubs are surging forward. Even if we found a way to compete with KC, and Minny, we're just fodder for the Red Sox and Yankees. I'm as rabid a fan as anyone. I imagine if I'm disgusted with the Yankees being able to pretty much do what ever they want, how many other fans just said screw baseball? I hope this wakes up baseball owners to do something to create some competition. Why bother trying to build a team? Why bother investing any emotion in a team that is clearly inferior to what other teams can buy? :headshake If anyone cares to look, I was a Yankee supporter. This however, is not in the best interest of baseball. Imagine if Bud had balls and blocked the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Don't the Yankees have like 8 of the top 12 paid players on their payroll now..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Agreed. The state of baseball right now is pretty terrible. You have the Yankees, who's infield equals the entire White Sox payroll. They need to do something. It doesn't have to be a salary cap, but they have to control the spending and level the playing field. This luxury tax really doesn't effect teams like the Yankees. They're spending over $200M this year, but they still have a ridiculous amount in the bank. I don't know when this current situtation of the luxury tax expires, but they need to do something. I just don't know how they'll be able to change it now. The MLB players union is the strongest in any sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 IMO, even if they have to pay more tax it doesn't hurt them due to the extra revenues made from the playoff and series shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I thought the Yankees failed to win the WS the last 3 years even though they had the highest payroll. I guess payroll does not have a direct relationship with winning a World Series. That being said, Payroll spent well does increase the likliehood of winning, but I think there will be some devastating results to the Yankees in the future when they have no prospects. At the All-Star Break, the Yankees are going to find it hard to make moves for players with out sending away MLB talent, where as the Red Sox, Astros, etc still have great teams with prospects to spend. Baseball is all about, keeping pace until the All-Star break, and then making your move. It doesnt matter if you are 5 games up and fade away, 162 games is a marathon not a race, and if the Yankees have a few key injuries, they will be the most overpaid last place team in the Majors. Most teams can not take the risk a $200mil payroll creates, the Yankees can. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Excellent point badger... if someone goes down they are in a bind.. however, they solve their binds by buying more talent. The pocketbook is too deep.. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofIChiSox Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The MLB players union is the strongest in any sport. I think this is the statement that a lot of common fans don't realize and I have only just come to realize. The union is as much if not more at fault for this than the owners. People see the owners paying these large salaries, but they don't realize it's more a case of the union demanding them. If I was a BoSox fan, I'd be pissed that the Union is basically what kept Arod from being in Boston. As a ChiSox fan I'm happy, because I'd rather have Maggs for a year than Nomar for a year. Anyhow, that's off topic, I don't think the Union will allow baseball to do anything that will hinder the continual growth of player salaries. Owners won't have anything they can do about it, because if they try, the union will strike and the owners know that they absolutely can't deal with another strike, the game would be dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I guess payroll does not have a direct relationship with winning a World Series. But it sure seems to help getting them there! I guess the reason I am not disgusted is because I expected something like this to happen. I will still watch baseball, but I don't think my heart will be in it as it previously was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 As long as the Yanks have money, they won't have to worry about prospects. They just buy these players like none other. The Yanks do surprisingly draft well. The Yanks were the team that drafted Damaso Marte. Pettitte, Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Rivera, etc. came from their farm teams. Actually a lot of the Yankees success in the 90's came from their farm teams. I know the Yanks haven't won a WS since George has gone insane and started to really spend the green; however, you can't say you would have a better shot w/ any other team. I just don't understand how you can become a "true" fan of that team, when you have a totally different roster every season. They're basically rooting for laundry in NY. I'd love to win a WS any way possible; however, I think it would be much more gratifying to win it w/ players from your farm and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The only salvation for small payroll teams is it is true that anything can happen in short series', so as long as a team has a shot at a Division or WC title, there's some hope. As bad as we feel about the situation, how much worse would it be to be a fan of an AL East team not Named Yankees or Red Sox? Think about Orioles fans, where you have ownership that is dedicated to putting together a competitive team, and just when the team decides they're going to try to run with the big dogs, NY and Boston start spending unheard of amounts of money on players. Frustrating to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The part of this that bothers me the most is that ARod isn't being made to sleep in the bed he made, so to speak. He wanted the dollars at got them at a cost to the team he played for - that was his choice. Now a few years down the road he realizes his mistake but yet he doesn't have to deal with the consequences - that, to me, is what stinks the most about this whole deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The part of this that bothers me the most is that ARod isn't being made to sleep in the bed he made, so to speak. He wanted the dollars at got them at a cost to the team he played for - that was his choice. Now a few years down the road he realizes his mistake but yet he doesn't have to deal with the consequences - that, to me, is what stinks the most about this whole deal. Yeah, that is pretty pathetic how that worked out. I just hope owners and what not can all learn that, though A-Rod is arguably the best baseball player in the game right now....No player is worth $252 M..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The union is so strong because the owners allow it to be. Baseball players have no more strength as a union then Football, Basketball, etc, it is just that the owners are divided amongst themselves as to what they want with baseball. If all 32 owners wanted a salary cap there would be one. But many powerful owners do not want one, and they show this with their spending and how they try and win championships. Implementing a salary cap is as easy as: "There wont be baseball until there is a salary cap" Sure we may lose 1 season, maybe more, but after a while players will start realizing where else will they get paid $1mil a year, let alone $15mil. Many baseball players gave up college, never went to college, and some never even went to high school. They are not going to find other jobs that will keep them in the style of life they are accustomed too, and when they realize that they dont have any other options to become millionaires, some will realize $10mil a year is enough. Once the union cracks, a salary cap will be imposed and the rest will be history. Its a shame that the 90's strike season did not accomplish this because the owners were not willing to risk another season with out making money, but eventually they will realize that losing money 1 year, is better than continual loss and inability to compete for the next 10 years. For the most part, owners are in a much better position than players, as they have millions, other companies, and other prospects. The true statement is, MLB has the weakest/strongest and most divided owners of all the sports. And to go into an argument about why that is the case is just to time consuming. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I thought the Yankees failed to win the WS the last 3 years even though they had the highest payroll. I guess payroll does not have a direct relationship with winning a World Series. Yeah, but it was already pointed out here that that is just a bit of statistical smoke and mirrors. While it is statistically likely that ANY ONE of the 25 or so small payroll teams can win it all, the chances that ANY ONE SPECIFIC small payroll team does it are a lot less than the team-specific chances of the Yankees, Bosox, et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 How are you basing these team based statistics? Statistics are that you take a group of stats and analyze them. Statistically the Red Sox have one of the worst/best chances of winning the world series because they have not won for 90 years. The best because statistically every team has to win some time. The worst because if you base it off their past statistics they have won 0 times in 90 years meaning that statistically speaking they have a 0% chance of winning. The Yankees and Red Sox are paper champions, perhaps if you use their players projected statistics and compare them to other teams, they are statistically favorites. But there is no true test who should win the world series, because statistically speaking the Marlins should not of been there, the Cubs should not of been in the NLCS, etc, etc. And statistically speaking, the White Sox were the AL Central champs. I guess statistics are not so cut and dry as we percieve them to be. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 Anything can happen in a series. But you have to get there. The Yankees know they will get there. The Yankees and a couple other teams are playing to win a WS every year. The other 28 teams are playing to maybe make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The part of this that bothers me the most is that ARod isn't being made to sleep in the bed he made, so to speak. He wanted the dollars at got them at a cost to the team he played for - that was his choice. Now a few years down the road he realizes his mistake but yet he doesn't have to deal with the consequences - that, to me, is what stinks the most about this whole deal. The only way he's forced is by the idiots who sign the checks. No sign of them growning a pair in the near future. I've never been so ho-hum about a season starting. I honestly have no interest. Yea, we'll go like we always do. It's what we do in the summer. But no excitment at all at this point. I feel worse for Baltimore fans. At least we have a shot at our division. They are basically screwed before the season even starts. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 While I agree that I would feel my team had a much better chance of winning the world series if I was a Red Sox or Yankees fan, I do not think that I would care or want them to win anymore than I do for the Sox. The Sox are the team I root for, they are the team I grew up with, and they are the team I follow win, lose, or draw. The Sox need to worry about the AL Central, then worry about the might Red Sox and Yankees. You do your job, and you dont worry about anyone else. Who knows, when playoff time comes around, its possible that only 1 team from the AL East is there, and 2 are from the West. Sox just need to concentrate on getting their own task done, because sadly last year i thought the Sox could compete with the Red Sox and Yankees in the playoffs, but we failed to get our job done. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I've never been so ho-hum about a season starting. I know exactly what you mean. Between the Sox not doing much in the offseason, the Canes sucking (and then getting undeservedly fined), a possible non-season next year for the NHL, the Cincy Cyclones losing like crazy, Jeff B not getting a full-time sponsor and then having his engine blow on lap 27 ( :fyou to Roush-Yates engine builders ) and the Cubs looking decent for the upcoming season, there isn't much I am not ho-hum about. Except maybe the Sens of course ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The owners do not want a strike/lockout because of one very simple fact. That will negatively affect the value of each and every franchise. Perhaps even drastically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Anything can happen in a series. But you have to get there. The Yankees know they will get there. The Yankees and a couple other teams are playing to win a WS every year. The other 28 teams are playing to maybe make the playoffs. Agreed, Tex. And you are right, Badger, statistics are iffy propositions by nature and by definition. What was not considered in my statement were realities like how do teams stack up in their own division, because I was trying to cut o the chace and point out a common statistical error in a lot of situations, not just in baseball. There is a statistical phenomenon called 'swamping the system,' and that is what happens when an unlikely low payroll team comes out of nowhere and goes deep into the season. It's the same phenomenon that allows competitively inferior animal populations to drive a population of superior animals to local extinction, provided there are enough of the weak animals to 'swamp the system.' With a wildcard berth in baseball now, this becomes more relevant than back in the East-West days, because if a small payroll team in a tough division catches fire there is still a way for them to make the playoffs even if they can't do well enough to win ttheir division. Most of the Red Sox' 90-year drought occurred without a wildcard possibility, or even an East-West playoff scenario for tthat matter. The huge statistical advantage big payroll teams enjoy now would be glaringly obvious if it was just the two teams with the winningest percntage that went to the WS, without the multi-tiered playoff system like we have now. The moves to two divisions, then three + WC ere allowed to let more teams remain in the hunt despite the fact that they are at a competitive disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 I guess, bottom line, they have taken the innocence and fun out of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 That's true. The playoff system does give the little guy at least some amount of hope. If this were the old, pre-expansion days, the Yankees would just be able to grind it out and finish the season with a 10 game lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I guess, bottom line, they have taken the innocence and fun out of baseball. Can I get an "Amen"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.