Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The Yanks do surprisingly draft well. The Yanks were the team that drafted Damaso Marte. Pettitte, Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Rivera, etc. came from their farm teams. Actually a lot of the Yankees success in the 90's came from their farm teams. This is true. They have developed players well and were doing better when they were signing less free agents rather than more as they have in the last 3-4 years. Just think if they could have signed their 1st round pick from 1999. That was some guy named................. Mark Prior. (I may be off on the year and round slightly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The part of this that bothers me the most is that ARod isn't being made to sleep in the bed he made, so to speak. He wanted the dollars at got them at a cost to the team he played for - that was his choice. Now a few years down the road he realizes his mistake but yet he doesn't have to deal with the consequences - that, to me, is what stinks the most about this whole deal. I could not agree with you more, Fan. I feel exactly the same way. Also, ditto on Steff's comment about being so ho-hum at the start of baseball season. This whole A-Rod fiasco has turned me off for some reason. I really wish Selig had the balls to use the "best interests of baseball" clause. I think he would run into legal problems if he does and endanger the game's antitrust exemption, but if the original ARod contract didn't scream for it loud enough, to me this situation certainly does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 Imagine if we were in the East? How would you feel if you were in Baltimore, Toronto, or Tampa? Hell, they have no chance of making the playoffs. What does that do to their attendance when the Yankmees are not in town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 New Bronx Bombers The Yankees' potential lineup with A-Rod, per inning based on 2004 salaries. Player Dollars/9 innings 1. Kenny Lofton, CF $2,126 2. Derek Jeter, SS $11,659 3. Alex Rodriguez, 3B $14,403 4. Jason Giambi, 1B $6,858 5. Gary Sheffield, RF $8,916 6. Bernie Williams, DH $8,230 7. Jorge Posada, C $4,115 8. Hideki Matsui, LF $4,801 9. Miguel Cairo, 2B $617 Kevin Brown, RHP $10,288 Total $72,013 Almost $1,000,000 per game for your starters. Think they will have a charity day for Miguel Cairo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The A Rod trade was the final straw in what is going to be a very s***ty year in Chicago baseball. We've taken a couple steps back while the Cubs are surging forward. Even if we found a way to compete with KC, and Minny, we're just fodder for the Red Sox and Yankees. I'm as rabid a fan as anyone. I imagine if I'm disgusted with the Yankees being able to pretty much do what ever they want, how many other fans just said screw baseball? I hope this wakes up baseball owners to do something to create some competition. Why bother trying to build a team? Why bother investing any emotion in a team that is clearly inferior to what other teams can buy? :headshake If anyone cares to look, I was a Yankee supporter. This however, is not in the best interest of baseball. Imagine if Bud had balls and blocked the trade. I agree with you totally man. When I heard about this trade, my heart sank. Baseball is heading into some really serious trouble if they let the yankees do this. You just can't have a team where a corner of they're infield is making more than an entire team. But, I love the sox and I'll follow them nomatter what. Even though this year's chances are pretty slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Yasny, The owners might experience a slight devaluation of their teams during the strike and perhaps a year or two subsequent after the strike. But once a salary cap is implemented, baseball will be a much more stable industry and consequently franchise values will rise. The price of franchises in baseball is lower than that of NBA, NFL, partially because of the uncertainty of owning a baseball team. Where as in the NFL the hardest thing is buying the team, in baseball the hardest thing is making sure your team is competitive. It is very hard to make a hundred million dollar investment and know that is just the starting point, and not the finish. Unlike the NFL where they have league parity, the MLB requires owners to have enough money to buy the team, and enough money to stock the team. In the NFL once you own your team, you are pretty much assured of putting a competitve field on the team as long as you are at the salary cap and make competitent decisions. Prospective owners have the chance of buying a NBA, NFL, MLB, or NHL franchise (discluding other franchise opportunities), the NHL is the least stable and has the most problems, they are currently on the path towards a lock out with a salary cap as a major concern, NHL franchises are the least valuable. The MLB and NBA are the next tier of uncertainty, with the NBA bargaining agreement coming up in 2005 (extended one year in case NHL has a year long hold out after this season), the NBA has a salary cap which means it is much more certain, and after the new bargaining agreement they will be a little less stable then the NFL. MLB is less stable then the NBA as MLB has no salary cap, and pretty much anything goes from an owners stand point. Entering into Baseball is entering into the most volatile sports market, in which the free market reigns supreme. Baseball franchises are worth less than NBA franchises on average for this reason, and this is why the Expos are still for sale. Owners are smart business men, most of them come from running successful businesses, and they can identify which situations have the best chance for them to be successful. In the short term, a strike will affect the value of a franchise negatively, but in the long term it will increase the value, except to the small few who want to buy baseball franchises so they can buy championships, but they are the owners who we are trying to protect against. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 From the NY Times Summer or Winter, the Yankees Show the Red Sox How to Win In the end, the Yankees' trade for Alex Rodriguez is just another instance in which the Yankees beat the Red Sox. Go to Article • Deal Makes Dollars, Sense • Jeter and Rodriguez • Yanks Will Need Pitching, Too http://nytimes.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 Deal for Rodriguez Makes Dollars, and Sense By TYLER KEPNER Published: February 16, 2004 he Yankees and the Texas Rangers have completed a trade that will send Alex Rodriguez to the Yankees for Alfonso Soriano and a player to be named, baseball officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said last night. The players union has approved the deal, and all that remains is Commissioner Bud Selig's approval, which is expected today. Advertisement A Major League Baseball official said Selig was merely waiting for a weekday to complete the paperwork. Rodriguez, the consensus best player in the majors, has longed for years to play on the New York stage. He is expected to be introduced at a Yankee Stadium news conference tomorrow, the day the team's pitchers and catchers are due to report to spring training in Tampa, Fla. Rest of the NY Bulls*** gloating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The union is so strong because the owners allow it to be. Baseball players have no more strength as a union then Football, Basketball, etc, it is just that the owners are divided amongst themselves as to what they want with baseball. If all 32 owners wanted a salary cap there would be one. But many powerful owners do not want one, and they show this with their spending and how they try and win championships. Implementing a salary cap is as easy as: "There wont be baseball until there is a salary cap" Sure we may lose 1 season, maybe more, but after a while players will start realizing where else will they get paid $1mil a year, let alone $15mil. Many baseball players gave up college, never went to college, and some never even went to high school. They are not going to find other jobs that will keep them in the style of life they are accustomed too, and when they realize that they dont have any other options to become millionaires, some will realize $10mil a year is enough. Once the union cracks, a salary cap will be imposed and the rest will be history. Its a shame that the 90's strike season did not accomplish this because the owners were not willing to risk another season with out making money, but eventually they will realize that losing money 1 year, is better than continual loss and inability to compete for the next 10 years. For the most part, owners are in a much better position than players, as they have millions, other companies, and other prospects. The true statement is, MLB has the weakest/strongest and most divided owners of all the sports. And to go into an argument about why that is the case is just to time consuming. SB Soxbadger, I hate to be negative but you are missing a dose of reality here. If you think the owners saying "there will be no baseball until there is a salary cap" is easy, you are very misguided. Tell the families of the people that work in the game of baseball who would be laid off that it is just that easy. Tell the people who work part-time on game days for extra income they NEED to support their families it is that easy. Tell the salepeole from the vendors that deal with MLB that their paychecks will be cut in half because they will receive no commision since souvenir sales and food sales will dry up. I could go on and on, but hopefully you get the point. Notice I didn't even bring up the fans. That could be another whole discussion. Such a power struggle between the millionaires (owners and players) would hurt the common person much more than themselves. It would also hurt those guys that are making near the league minimum a lot worse than the guys making lots of money. The guy's that have already made the big bucks don't need it if they have half a brain. They aren't the ones that would get hurt. The players union is very much more powerful than the NFL's or the NBA's. It would take much longer to crack the MLBPA than those other unions. You are indeed correct by saying that the current owner's group makes it harder on themselves and helps the union stay strong. But simply banding together and threatening to shut the game down would have major consequences that not too many people would be in favor of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I'm too lazy to look it up and I am certain someone here has heard some details - what's the financial deal? Are the Spanks taking the whole contract or is Texas expected to pony up some dough? Considering it was reported that the Rangers are getting the Soriano (that is the 2B/OF's name, right) and a pitching prospect, the Spanks should take the remainder of the contract in its entirety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Aw hell Rex... there ya go making sense Fan.. I think It's posting in the other thread I started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Aw hell Rex... there ya go making sense Fan.. I think It's posting in the other thread I started. Sorry Steff, I have been trying to stop doing that, unfortunately to no avail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Rex, I understand the ultimate consequences of a strike outside of just the player / owner relations. But the reality of the situation as you aptly describe it is: The players union is very much more powerful than the NFL's or the NBA's. It would take much longer to crack the MLBPA than those other unions. If it will take much longer to crack, then we can assume that MLBPA will not just agree to a salary cap and it will indeed take a lock out. Do I wish that the owners and MLPBA could sit down and rationaly argue about a salary cap and come to the conclusion that in the best interest of the collective baseball needs a salary cap? Yes. Do I think there are arguments for why a salary cap would actually benefit the players? Yes. Do I think that MLPBA is to stubborn to ever listen to a salary cap? Yes, atleast right now. With the watershed remarks by the MLBPA about "devaluation of a contract" I doubt the organization will allow itself to "devalue" its own agreement with MLB. Therefore we come to the conclusion that the only way to get a salary cap is by a strike. Now your bring up good points, but I could conversely argue that if baseball does not lock down for 1 year, and fix itself, these people who depend on baseball may in the end lose out anyways. If Baseball was to contract (which was argued about), 2 teams worth of employees were going to be lost completely, where as a hold out employees would only lose 1 year of employment. If baseball is going down the path many say, (which I am not so quick to agree) that it is becoming uncompetitve and will eventually collapse on itself, then shutting down for a year may be a situation in which: The ends justify the means. Also i did not want to even go into the replacement player argument, my point was just that its not the MLBPA that is preventing a salary cap, it is the disunity of the owners. And it is not that I am not compassionate, just that I am trying to present the challanages that face baseball, and as you point out they are not even as cut and dry as I make them. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 You make good points. I think the easiest way to look at this is there is NO simple solution. Could it be that shutting down the game is in its best long term interest? Perhaps But I am not one to say that is the preferred solution when I know the short-term effects it would have. I for one, am not willing to sacrifice while millionaires and billionaires sort out there petty differences. Nor would I be willing to suggest that someone else's family sacrifice to that degree either. Contracting teams may also be in the game's best interests, but would you agree if it put you out of a job and severely affected your family's daily life, let alone financial future? The key is to find some kind of solution that can bring the game closer to where it needs to be without creating the short-term suffering. I think the owners felt they were headed in the right direction with this last CBA and it does seem that salaries were coming down a bit. But to me, this deal with ARod almost completely negates any positive gains made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Could it be that shutting down the game is in its best long term interest? Perhaps Which is where hockey is right now. Baseball really needs to watch that situation closely if only for information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Which is where hockey is right now. Baseball really needs to watch that situation closely if only for information. Yeah, but hockey sucks! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Yeah, but hockey sucks! LOL And baseball swallows! Sorry, but I love my hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 And baseball swallows! Sorry, but I love my hockey. Must be why so many male fans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quade36 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The day I get all the info on my season tickets... the same day I realize that major league baseball is a one team league. great. At least I can hear O-WE-O at least one more year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 And baseball swallows! Sorry, but I love my hockey. Yeah, you and the other four people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Must be why so many male fans... I must confess that I stole that one from Brian. We travel around alot to see the Cincy Cyclones play and we are used to be the visitors. As visitors I think it is mandatory the home fans say 'Cincy Suck!' as soon as they see us and Brian gives 'em the obligatory 'Yes, but (instert home team name here) swallows.' It usually diffuses any situation for some reason - maybe like you said Steff, male humor. The only problem this year is that they really do suck (and bad) so we generally just nod in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Off to lunch... hopefully they've done more work upstairs and I can at least tell you guys about that. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Yeah, you and the other four people! I see you were at a Hawks game. To see real fans and a full house, one must go to the Corel Senator...oops...Corel Center! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The day I get all the info on my season tickets... the same day I realize that major league baseball is a one team league. great. At least I can hear O-WE-O at least one more year... Hey, in all seriousness here...... For all of those that have soured on Major League Baseball, be it because of the ARod trade or for whatever reason, I challenge you to look for an alternate source of entertainment. There is an alternative to MLB for baseball fans and that is quite simply, Minor League Baseball. If you have never been to a game, try one this summer. There should be a Minor League ballpark relatively near almost everyone on this board. In Minor League Baseball, the players play hard and play the game the way it was meant to be played. Not every player is a future Major Leaguer, but there is definitely talent to be seen. The stadiums are much smaller, making watching a game much more intimate. You are closer to the action and the players are quite accessible. The players are generally very friendly and easy to approach. For the baseball purist, I understand you may despise the Dizzy Bat Race and all like promotions, but ask yourself, are they the lesser of two evils when you think about your disappointment in MLB right now? Can you stand ignoring such promotions (go grab a beer or a dog) so that you can enjoy the many other benefits? For the others, I believe you will find the promotions quite humorous. Above all else, the best part of Minor League Baseball is it is affordable. Most places tickets are no more than $8-$10, if that. You can even get dollar beers or cheap hot dogs on certain nights. If you have not gone to a Minor League game, I seriously urge you to go to a few this year. Give it a fair chance and I think you will find it is an excellent experience. Go to enjoy the game of baseball in a more pure form. I have no doubt you will like it. If you have been to Minor League games, I suggest you catch a few more this year. IF MLB wants to shoot itself in the foot, go see the kids play. Although MLB does get a small cut of the ticket revenue from each Minor League team, you are not directly supporting Major League baseball with your money. Thanks for allowing this 30-second commercial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I see you were at a Hawks game. To see real fans and a full house, one must go to the Corel Senator...oops...Corel Center! Don't get me on my hockey soapbox, Fan... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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