southsideirish Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I would like to know where I argued that a single player is old at the age of 32. I stated the Yankees are an old TEAM. There is a difference between an old player and an old team. A TEAM with the average age of 32 is no doubt an old TEAM. Thanks for all the lists everyone. I don't know how that helps the argument of the old team concept. If you have a bunch of old players you will most likely have more injuries. Looking at the Yankees roster there are a bunch of players that are more susceptible to injuries. Bernie Williams, Giambi, Lofton, Rivera, Brown, Leiber, and Gordon just to name a few. Is it because of age? Wear and tear on a body leads to injuries. All of you guys have listed some great players, no doubt about it. There are exeptions to every rule. However, that was not my argument. My argument clearly was that the YANKEES are an OLD TEAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 All of you guys have listed some great players, no doubt about it. There are exeptions to every rule. I gave you 50 players within the last 5 years alone and probably left out a coupla dozen more. And that's only POSITION players-- I didn NOT include pitchers. However, that was not my argument. My argument clearly was that the YANKEES are an OLD TEAM And they're still gonnna win 100+ games and make the Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 . I gave you 50 players within the last 5 years alone and probably left out a coupla dozen more. And that's only POSITION players-- I didn NOT include pitchers. And they're still gonnna win 100+ games and make the Series. And I thanked you for that Brando. The problem with that is you are comparing apples to oranges. I never said that a single player was old when he hits 32. However, a TEAM with the average age of 32 is considered old by any standard. Not just mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 And I thanked you for that Brando. The problem with that is you are comparing apples to oranges. I never said that a single player was old when he hits 32. However, a TEAM with the average age of 32 is considered old by any standard. Not just mine. Lat year year they had an inferior bullpen, an inferior starting rotation, an inferior offense. Jeter, Giambi were slumping in the first 2 months and Matsui was learning the league. And they still won 100+ games, didn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Lat year year they had an inferior bullpen, an inferior starting rotation, an inferior offense. Jeter, Giambi were slumping in the first 2 months and Matsui was learning the league. And they still won 100+ games, didn't they? How has Vazquez faired against the American League in their park with the DH in recent years? Brown was on the DL 7 times while with the Dodgers in the last 3-4 years and hasn't pitched in the American League for 8 years now. Leiber is coming off of reconstructive elbow surgery and didn't start pitching until late last year. He has never pitched in the American League. Contreras is looking good but he is an unknown quantity. Gordon has not put together 2 good back to back years, as far as I can see ,ever. Unless you consider 97 and 98 good years back to back. Kind of hard to tell there. There are a lot of question marks with this team and their rotation. It is hardly a given as to what that staff is going to be. It can be great but it can be as equally bad. I see your opinion is that it will be a better staff than the previous year. My opinion is opposite. I don't see many pitchers other than the great ones (Pedro, RJ) making that change from The National to the American very easily. There are exeptions, such as Moyer (although he may have just been a late bloomer as he was rocked while with Texas, Baltimore, and Boston), that I am sure you can point to. I am sure you are going to point to some stats of Vazquez's and Brown's, but that was from another league. It is just my opinion that the staff has many questions and it is far from given that this staff will be one of the better in the league. Just my opinion Brando with no offense to yours. You make a good case as well as it could be a great staff. Yes they did win 100 games last year. Yes they did have an inferior offense, even though they were 4th in all of baseball in runs scored. By the way Brando how would you rate an offense? By runs scored? However, with the way the schedule is set they will have to play against teams in their own division a lot. Boston, Toronto, Baltimore, and even TB are not push overs. The east is the best division in the American league. It will not be easy for the Yanks. I can see a situation where the Red Sox can beat out the Yanks and the wildcard comes from the west. I don't even think it is a given that the Yanks make the playoffs. That is with a 190+ milion dollar payroll even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Just my opinion Brando with no offense to yours Your opinion emasculates me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Your opinion emasculates me. Ok, and in what way does it emasculate you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the Yankees basically swapped one good hitter for another. They still haven't replaced Boone's bat and the health of their pitching staff is still a weakness. I'd also like to add that Tom Hicks needs to get out of baseball. He is the biggest dumbass on the face of the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the Yankees basically swapped one good hitter for another. They still haven't replaced Boone's bat and the health of their pitching staff is still a weakness. I'd also like to add that Tom Hicks needs to get out of baseball. He is the biggest dumbass on the face of the earth. It's been mentioned and supposedly they have suddenly become the best offense in baseball after they made the ARod trade. Be prepared to get harrassed. Soriano and a healthy Boone or ARod and Wilson/Cairo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the Yankees basically swapped one good hitter for another. They still haven't replaced Boone's bat and the health of their pitching staff is still a weakness. I'd also like to add that Tom Hicks needs to get out of baseball. He is the biggest dumbass on the face of the earth. How does ARod not replace Boone's bat..? And you are 100% correct on Hicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 How does ARod not replace Boone's bat..? And you are 100% correct on Hicks. I'm saying that the production they lost by trading Soriano and losing Boone has not been made up by gaining A-Rod. They are still down a good player. Not as if they need it though. The A-Rod deal probably wasn't done for the numbers but to rub it in the Redsox face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I'd love to be a pitcher in the American League right now. There would be no greater feeling then going into Yankee Stadium and shutting down that entire lineup. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it only takes one good pitcher to shutdown 9 great batters. And that pitcher is Schoenwais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the Yankees basically swapped one good hitter for another. They still haven't replaced Boone's bat and the health of their pitching staff is still a weakness. I'd also like to add that Tom Hicks needs to get out of baseball. He is the biggest dumbass on the face of the earth. I pulled the numbers and to my surpise they are a lot closer to each other than I thought. And remember Soriano was mostly used to lead off. When you take Soriano away and put A-Rod in you get a little bit better. Take Boone out and put Enrique Wilson in and you get a lot worse. Think the Jankees are done dealing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillieHarris2 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 no the yankees probably arent done dealing because they have a huge hole at second base to fill. They need another bat to fill the void of losing boone. I wouldnt be surprised to see another move judging by the mood steinbrenner seems to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Someone please fill me in on how beastly finally managed to get himself banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Someone please fill me in on how beastly finally managed to get himself banned. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Someone please fill me in on how beastly finally managed to get himself banned. He diddled his nephew. And then wrote a book about it. Big mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I pulled the numbers and to my surpise they are a lot closer to each other than I thought. And remember Soriano was mostly used to lead off. When you take Soriano away and put A-Rod in you get a little bit better. Take Boone out and put Enrique Wilson in and you get a lot worse. Think the Jankees are done dealing? What they have now makes little sense. A-Rod will move to SS, Jeter will move to 2B where he will be significantly better than A-Sore, and Yanks will try to re-acquire Ventura from Dodgers who by that should be out of 1st place. Or something similar. Soriano is an 850 OPS player with less room for improvement now that we know he is 28 and in the middle of his prime. A-Rod is a 1000 OPS player. A huge difference. A-Rod is also MUCH better defensively than Soriano is. Bigger name-- more tickets and concessions and merchandise sold;more games watched and listened to, including the Asian/CA markets. A-Rod + Jeter + Ventura-type > Jeter + Soriano + Boone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 It's been mentioned and supposedly they have suddenly become the best offense in baseball after they made the ARod trade. Be prepared to get harrassed. Soriano and a healthy Boone or ARod and Wilson/Cairo Remember this? Uh, no. You go try playing 3B for the Yankees, hell, go walk around after just having surgery on your torn ACL, and tell me how it feels. I'll take ARod and Cairo over Soriano and ACL-torn Boone. They could not control Boone getting hurt. Had Boone not gotten hurt, we are not having this conversation, because they still have Soriano at 2B and Boone at 3B. This is not the case, because Boone got hurt, and they went out and got ARod. If Boone is healthy, duh, almost everyone takes Soriano and Boone over Arod and Enriquemiguel Wilsoncairo...plain and simply, it is two good hitters over one great hitter and two utility INFers. But Boone is not healthy; therefore, Cashman and Steinbrenner did something about it and acquired ARod to play 3B. Plain and simple, you cannot say "Do you want Boone and Soriano or ARod and Cairo/Wilson?" because there is no choice to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Remember this? They could not control Boone getting hurt. Had Boone not gotten hurt, we are not having this conversation, because they still have Soriano at 2B and Boone at 3B. This is not the case, because Boone got hurt, and they went out and got ARod. If Boone is healthy, duh, almost everyone takes Soriano and Boone over Arod and Enriquemiguel Wilsoncairo...plain and simply, it is two good hitters over one great hitter and two utility INFers. But Boone is not healthy; therefore, Cashman and Steinbrenner did something about it and acquired ARod to play 3B. Plain and simple, you cannot say "Do you want Boone and Soriano or ARod and Cairo/Wilson?" because there is no choice to this. I really don't think you understand my argument at all. Here I clearly state: It's been mentioned and supposedly they have suddenly become the best offense in baseball after they made the ARod trade Do you see that word SUDDENLY? Now if you think it is a no brainer that you would have Soriano and a healthy Boone over Arod and Wilson/Cairo then you are proving my point. They were a better offense before Boone got hurt. However, no one was going crazy over it and complaining and calling them the best offense in the league and stating they are going to run away with it. That Boston has no chance. All of a sudden Boone goes down and they trade Soriano for ARod and they suddenly become the best offense in the league? NO THEY DID NOT. THEY ALREADY WERE before the Boone injury. Now do you understand where I am coming from? Boone got injured. They were not a better offense after they lost him and they are still not a better offense since they lost him. They did not SUDDENLY become the best offense in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 What they have now makes little sense. A-Rod will move to SS, Jeter will move to 2B where he will be significantly better than A-Sore, and Yanks will try to re-acquire Ventura from Dodgers who by that should be out of 1st place. Or something similar. Soriano is an 850 OPS player with less room for improvement now that we know he is 28 and in the middle of his prime. A-Rod is a 1000 OPS player. A huge difference. A-Rod is also MUCH better defensively than Soriano is. Bigger name-- more tickets and concessions and merchandise sold;more games watched and listened to, including the Asian/CA markets. A-Rod + Jeter + Ventura-type > Jeter + Soriano + Boone. I could not ever see a situation where Jeter moves from SS to accomodate ARod. That will never happen. I can see them acquiring a 2B such as Grudz or Walker, but they will not move Jeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I really don't think you understand my argument at all. Here I clearly state: Do you see that word SUDDENLY? Now if you think it is a no brainer that you would have Soriano and a healthy Boone over Arod and Wilson/Cairo then you are proving my point. They were a better offense before Boone got hurt. However, no one was going crazy over it and complaining and calling them the best offense in the league and stating they are going to run away with it. That Boston has no chance. All of a sudden Boone goes down and they trade Soriano for ARod and they suddenly become the best offense in the league? NO THEY DID NOT. THEY ALREADY WERE before the Boone injury. Now do you understand where I am coming from? Boone got injured. They were not a better offense after they lost him and they are still not a better offense since they lost him. They did not SUDDENLY become the best offense in the league. Gotcha, I did misread it. I still think their offense will probably improve by the end of the year though as I think they will either acquire a good offensive 3Bman or 2Bman sometime before the deadline and either they will put him in at 2B or they will move Jeter to 2B, move Arod to SS, and put their 3B in place. No hard feelings though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I could not ever see a situation where Jeter moves from SS to accomodate ARod. That will never happen. I can see them acquiring a 2B such as Grudz or Walker, but they will not move Jeter. Jeter is one of the most overrated, overpaid players on the planet. He will do what's best for the team. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Gotcha, I did misread it. I still think their offense will probably improve by the end of the year though as I think they will either acquire a good offensive 3Bman or 2Bman sometime before the deadline and either they will put him in at 2B or they will move Jeter to 2B, move Arod to SS, and put their 3B in place. No hard feelings though. no hard feelings at all I still have a hard time believing Jeter will be moved. I don't see many people in that position taking kindly to someone coming in and taking over their position. This could cause a lot of animosity. Supposedly this was even worked out with ARod before the deal was made. Jeter will not be moved. I have heard this on a couple of different stations from people withing the Yank organIzation. I am not saying it isn't possible, but I would be the most suprised person out there if Jeter is moved to 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 no hard feelings at all I still have a hard time believing Jeter will be moved. I don't see many people in that position taking kindly to someone coming in and taking over their position. This could cause a lot of animosity. Supposedly this was even worked out with ARod before the deal was made. Jeter will not be moved. I have heard this on a couple of different stations from people withing the Yank organIzation. I am not saying it isn't possible, but I would be the most suprised person out there if Jeter is moved to 2nd. I'll just say this much, don't be surprised if Jeter does move. There will almost certainly be better 3Bman available at the deadline this year then 2Bman, and if so, I have little doubt that Jeter is moved to 2B atleast for the time being, or at the very least, have ARod and Jeter split time between SS and 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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