Peter Gammons article

[sox-r-us]

I know too early to talk about next offseason, but if we lose Maggs, we could sign one of the SS available next offseason (see at the bottom of the article).....unless George signs one more to play at 2B

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1738930

[witesoxfan]

If Harris does not pan out and plays like s*** this year, and no one else steps up and plays well at 2B, Maggs is gone, Koch is gone, and Konerko is dealt....I make priority #1 to resign Loaiza(assuming he has another solid year). Then, if we can, resign Jose to like a 2-year $5-6 mill deal, and then try to sign Orlando Cabrera as well. We sign Cabrera, and we have very good defense up the middle with Valentin at 2B and Cabrera at SS(where he once won a gold glove IIRC). He's also decent offensively. We get him for something like $5-7 mill a year, and we are good from that standpoint. If not, we go into next season with Jose as our SS at $2.5-3 mill for the next two years, and to me, that is great. I don't like him here for $5 mill for 1 year, but $5-6 mill over 2 years is fantastic...a decent power hitter of a SS who has good range both ways but a questionable glove and a sometimes erratic arm....it ain't the best, but it is very far from the worst, and I'll take it.

[BrandoFan]

If Harris does not pan out and plays like s*** this year, and no one else steps up and plays well at 2B, Maggs is gone, Koch is gone, and Konerko is dealt....I make priority #1 to resign Loaiza(assuming he has another solid year).  Then, if we can, resign Jose to like a 2-year $5-6 mill deal, and then try to sign Orlando Cabrera as well.  We sign Cabrera, and we have very good defense up the middle with Valentin at 2B and Cabrera at SS(where he once won a gold glove IIRC).  He's also decent offensively.  We get him for something like $5-7 mill a year, and we are good from that standpoint.  If not, we go into next season with Jose as our SS at $2.5-3 mill for the next two years, and to me, that is great.  I don't like him here for $5 mill for 1 year, but $5-6 mill over 2 years is fantastic...a decent power hitter of a SS who has good range both ways but a questionable glove and a sometimes erratic arm....it ain't the best, but it is very far from the worst, and I'll take it.

Exactly.

 

You d be suprised how many options even poor teams can have provided they don't have a brain-dead egomaniac for a GM.

 

Convince Jose to hit LH exclusively (rot on the bench being the other option), give him 5 mill over 2 years and all is good. If Tejada is worth 12, Jose is easily worth 2.

 

If he doesn't agree, then bye-bye.

[southsideirish]

If Harris does not pan out and plays like s*** this year, and no one else steps up and plays well at 2B, Maggs is gone, Koch is gone, and Konerko is dealt....I make priority #1 to resign Loaiza(assuming he has another solid year).  Then, if we can, resign Jose to like a 2-year $5-6 mill deal, and then try to sign Orlando Cabrera as well.  We sign Cabrera, and we have very good defense up the middle with Valentin at 2B and Cabrera at SS(where he once won a gold glove IIRC).  He's also decent offensively.  We get him for something like $5-7 mill a year, and we are good from that standpoint.  If not, we go into next season with Jose as our SS at $2.5-3 mill for the next two years, and to me, that is great.  I don't like him here for $5 mill for 1 year, but $5-6 mill over 2 years is fantastic...a decent power hitter of a SS who has good range both ways but a questionable glove and a sometimes erratic arm....it ain't the best, but it is very far from the worst, and I'll take it.

I would love to have Cabrera. I hope Willie pans out. We would be very solid up the middle if that happened. We would just need a better CF (Carlos Beltran?)

[WillieHarris2]

I think the sox should go after renteria. He puts up solid numbers and wouldnt be as much as nomar. I would rather see renteria come to town then cabrera.

[witesoxfan]

Exactly.

 

You d be suprised how many options even poor teams can have provided they don't have a brain-dead egomaniac for a GM.

 

Convince Jose to hit LH exclusively (rot on the bench being the other option), give him 5 mill over 2 years and all is good. If Tejada is worth 12, Jose is easily worth 2.

 

If he doesn't agree, then bye-bye.

I see no reason why Jose wouldn't sign for $5-6 mill, in fact, I'd go as far as saying he's quite possibly getting more money then he should(but loyalty, good defense, all that bulls***)

 

Here are Reggie Sanders's stats (for the record, he got 2-years $6 mill from the Cards) .285 31 87 .912 OPS 15 SB(5 CS)...however, he also had a very bad 2.89 K-BB ratio(38 walks, 110 K's)

 

Given, SS is a position that is much harder to play everyday, however, Jose's .240 28 74 .776 OPS 8 SB(3 CS)...however, his 2.11 K-BB ratio is a little easier to swallow(but not by much...54 walks, 114 K's).

 

So really, I'd say he's worth closer to $2 mill a year, but $2.5-$3 mill a year, ah, who the hell cares...it's a little easier to handle when a guy is overpaid by $500,000-$1 mill compared to a guy like Paul Konerko who is being overpaid by like $3-4 mill, if not more.

 

But as you said, it's quite easy for poor teams to sign guys who are good if they use their money correctly...in fact, I'd say both Sanders and Valentin would be good additions, and next year, they'll probably make about as much as what Koch will make this year.

[witesoxfan]

I would love to have Cabrera. I hope Willie pans out. We would be very solid up the middle if that happened. We would just need a better CF (Carlos Beltran?)

I wouldn't give up on Rowand yet. Let's see how he pans out this year. I think he'll be decent at the very least...probably will hit .260-.280, double digit homers, 60-70 RBI, along with solid defense and a solid arm in CF. However, I could just as easily put Harris in CF and dump Rowand if Rowand does not pan out and Harris does....it would make us stronger up the middle defensively with ease(because when Harris is healthy, he can fly and he would be able to cover more ground then Rowand, meaning some doubles with Rowand are outs for Harris).

 

We'll just have to see how it plays out.

[witesoxfan]

I think the sox should go after renteria. He puts up solid numbers and wouldnt be as much as nomar. I would rather see renteria come to town then cabrera.

Of course, Renteria will also cost us $8-10 mill, and Cabrera is not that much worse offenisvely or defensively then Renteria...I personally think Renteria has probably benefitted from being in the middle of that awesome Cardinals lineup, and if he went to another team, you wouldn't see .330 15 and however-many-RBIs-he-had numbers from him....maybe even as low as .280 10 a-lower-number-of-RBIs-then-he-had-with-St. Louis. Cabrera has really never had that type of protection around him.

 

I'll take Cabrera at $7 mill over Renteria at $10 mill....that $3 mill can be spent very well in other places, like for instance, resigning Jose to play 2B(as I said, I would absolutely love Jose-Cabrera up the middle, and while it would take literally a little bit of time for Jose to adjust, like maybe two weeks or so in ST, we would almost undoubtedly reap the benefits later).

[BrandoFan]

I see no reason why Jose wouldn't sign for $5-6 mill, in fact, I'd go as far as saying he's quite possibly getting more money then he should(but loyalty, good defense, all that bulls***)

 

Why wouldn't he do it? Because he did DIDN'T after last season-- which was his worst in terms of RISP.

 

We all thought he would be re-signed for 2.5 Mill (Jason had him placed at 1-1.5).

 

He signed for 5.

 

In 2004, he won't be allowed to hit RH, so his OPS would be inflated (last year his LH OPS was 890 and his 4-year average is 855). As soon as he goes 1-for-10 as a RH hitter, Ozzie will either bench him or offer to LH exclusively. Ozzie knows HIS job is at stake and if he could call Frank to the mat, he would Jose if need be.

 

I believe the RISP numbers would be closer to 2000-2002 (.300+) than to 2003.

 

If his D is close to what it was in 2003, and he has an inflated OPS because of LH at bats along with 85+ ribbies a solid RISP would net.........He would get more than 2 Million on the market.

[witesoxfan]

Why wouldn't he do it? Because he did DIDN'T after last season-- which was his worst in terms of RISP.

 

We all thought he would be re-signed for 2.5 Mill (Jason had him placed at 1-1.5).

 

He signed for 5.

 

In 2004, he won't be allowed to hit RH, so his OPS would be inflated (last year his LH OPS was 890 and his 4-year average is 855). As soon as he goes 1-for-10 as a RH hitter, Ozzie will either bench him or offer to LH exclusively.  Ozzie knows HIS job is at stake and if he could call Frank to the mat, he would Jose if need be.

 

I believe the RISP numbers would be closer to 2000-2002 (.300+) than to 2003.

 

If his D is close to what it was in 2003, and he has an inflated OPS because of LH at bats along with 85+ ribbies a solid RISP would net.........He would get more than 2 Million on the market.

For the record, I do believe Kenny Williams picked up Jose Valentin's 2004 option worth $5 mill. He never "resigned" with us.

 

Also, if you think he would get more then $2 mill, how much more then $2 mill do you think he would get.

 

Personally, I would give him $4 mill a year at the max, $8 mill over 2...but that's all the further I go.

[WillieHarris2]

jose shouldnt get much more then 4 million a year anyways unless he steps it up this year.

[SoxFan562004]

This is why I'm giving KW a semi-pass on this off-season... He had a ton of large contracts (I know some were his own doing, but now it's a different market)

 

There's a possibility KW could leverage all his free space under the Sox imposed cap (which should be about 30m, not counting anything they may get from the new cable station) into a solid off-season next year... I think sticking with what has now, which I believe could still win this horrible division, is better than making stupid trades and getting big money contracts back (ie, the rumored Erstad deal)..

[BrandoFan]

Personally, I would give him $4 mill a year at the max, $8 mill over 2...but that's all the further I go.

 

Given that he is 34, I wouldn't give him 8 Mill over 3, let alone 2. He has 2 solid years left, tops.

 

But we both know, if Jose is half-way decent hitting from LS against LHP, overall OPS would take off. Remember, he barely scatched 400 OPS as a RH last year, and his swing is incomparably better from the LS.

 

He'd probably come very close to 30 HR/85 RBI barrier, which like it or not impresses a lot of people, including some GMs. Given his instincts, he'll probably be a solid baserunner until he is 45 and could make a solid 2B as he ages.

 

I bet some GM from a winning team would give him 3-4 Mill a year/1 year. I was among those who hoped he would re-sign for 1-2 Mill this off-season. He returned for 5. That tells you about the demand side in MLB.

[WillieHarris2]

This is why I'm giving KW a semi-pass on this off-season... He had a ton of large contracts (I know some were his own doing, but now it's a different market)

 

There's a possibility KW could leverage all his free space under the Sox imposed cap (which should be about 30m, not counting anything they may get from the new cable station) into a solid off-season next year... I think sticking with what has now, which I believe could still win this horrible division, is better than making stupid trades and getting big money contracts back (ie, the rumored Erstad deal)..

good point saving the money for next year would definetly be more worth it.

[witesoxfan]

Given that he is 34, I wouldn't give him 8 Mill over 3, let alone 2.  He has 2 solid years left, tops.

 

But we both know, if Jose is half-way decent  hitting from LS against LHP, overall  OPS would take off.    Remember, he barely scatched 400 OPS as a RH last year, and his swing is incomparably better from the LS.

 

He'd probably come very close to 30 HR/85 RBI barrier, which like it or not impresses a lot of people, including some GMs. Given his instincts, he'll probably be a solid baserunner until he is 45 and could make a solid 2B as he ages.

 

I bet some GM from a winning team would give him 3-4 Mill a year/1 year. I was among those who hoped he would re-sign for 1-2 Mill this off-season. He returned for 5. That tells you about the demand side in MLB.

But we both know, if Jose is half-way decent  hitting from LS against LHP, overall  OPS would take off

 

Or if he just didn't hit against lefties period.

 

He wouldn't hit 30 homers just against righties, but I imagine his average would improve over .240 or whatever it would be if he hit solely LH.

 

I have no doubt that a GM would give him that much for a year....if his team is a solid SS away from winning, of course they wouldn't be afraid to give $4 mill to Jose....in fact, if absolutely needed, they would probably give $5.

[Cerbaho-WG]

I sincerely doubt the Sox will sign a big FA. One, our owner will rarely if ever fork out the cash. Two, who, as a FA, REALLY wants to play for the Sox? Not many people other than Dan Plesac.

[witesoxfan]

I sincerely doubt the Sox will sign a big FA. One, our owner will rarely if ever fork out the cash. Two, who, as a FA, REALLY wants to play for the Sox? Not many people other than Dan Plesac.

Your second point is most of the time closely related to your first point. If a team will spend money, FAs will want to go there.

 

Do you think IRod wanted to go to Detroit, because I don't. Not until he was offered $40 mill over 4 years that is. Then Detroit became his favorite city in the world.

[YASNY]

Jose didn't hit against lefties very often at all last season. I'm sure that had an effectiveness against them when he did have to hit from the right side. However, that was one area in which Manuel was correct, limiting Jose's RH AB's to as few as possible.

[Pastime]

Now I understand Kenny's thinking!

 

He wanted to sign Jose for 5 million to be a "stopgap" measure. Once the season's over, he's going after one of the studs at SS. That Kenny - he's so shrewd.

 

:headshake

[Ishmookie]

y are we talking about next year when pitchers and catchers reported today that makes me feel good when i say it......hey did you know that pitchers and catchers reported today?

[witesoxfan]

y are we talking about next year when pitchers and catchers reported today that makes me feel good when i say it......hey did you know that pitchers and catchers reported today?

Because it was brought up in an article and so we decided to talk about it.

 

Besides, while it is nice that ST is starting, pitchers and catchers reporting really effects the general public very little. Once the position players report is when s*** starts getting heated up, because then they get sharp and then they start playing each other and then they have exhibition games.

 

Besides, if you didn't think into the future and consider some options, you'd be SOL by the time that time came.