Sorry for being a pessimist

[Texsox]

Last season I saw a three or four year dynasty starting. This year I see us taking a step back while the Royals move ahead and the Twins look about the same. As positive as I was last season, is how negative I am this season.

 

What have we really done this off season?

 

Replaced JM with an unproven Manager (I like the move, but at best put it in the ?? category)

 

Brought in a Japanese reliever who again is a ??

 

Lost Colon who was solid down the stretch

 

Aged one year at DH and SS

 

Lost our second half 2nd baseman and CF

 

Last a good reliever in Flash

 

Aged one year from behind the plate and down the 3rd base line!! Lee, Crede, and Olivo that is probably the best thing that happened this off season. I think at least two, if not all three, will have break out years.

 

But on a balance, our only hope is that we underachieved last year and can over achieve this year. But with 38 days until opening day, I am not feeling alright.

 

:headshake :headshake :headshake

[SnB]

I think we're better than everyone thinks we are. The twins haven't exactly upgraded and the royals while upgrading, didn't do anything major. We still have, by far, the best rotation in our division and if not the best, near the top in offense. And I think ozzie is the kind of manager we need for this group. We're going to be fine, i promise.

[BrandoFan]

Last season I saw a three or four year dynasty starting. This year I see us taking a step back while the Royals move ahead and the Twins look about the same. As positive as I was last season, is how negative I am this season.

 

What have we really done this off season?

 

Replaced JM with an unproven Manager (I like the move, but at best put it in the ?? category)

 

Brought in a Japanese reliever who again is a ??

 

Lost Colon who was solid down the stretch

 

Aged one year at DH and SS

 

Lost our second half 2nd baseman and CF

 

Last a good reliever in Flash

 

Aged one year from behind the plate and down the 3rd base line!! Lee, Crede, and Olivo that is probably the best thing that happened this off season. I think at least two, if not all three, will have break out years.

 

But on a balance, our only hope is that we underachieved last year and can over achieve this year. But with 38 days until opening day, I am not feeling alright.

 

:headshake  :headshake  :headshake

Waitaminute, I don't think you're sorry at all.

 

I got over my pessimism when 2003 ended. Now it's all about SouthSide Koolaid.

 

Hope spring-trains eternal!!!

[Wong & Owens]

Replaced JM with an unproven Manager (I like the move, but at best put it in the ?? category)

 

Brought in a Japanese reliever who again is a ??

 

Lost Colon who was solid down the stretch

 

Aged one year at DH and SS

 

Lost our second half 2nd baseman and CF

 

Last a good reliever in Flash

 

Aged one year from behind the plate and down the 3rd base line!! Lee, Crede, and Olivo that is probably the best thing that happened this off season. I think at least two, if not all three, will have break out years.

 

But on a balance, our only hope is that we underachieved last year and can over achieve this year. But with 38 days until opening day, I am not feeling alright.

 

:headshake  :headshake  :headshake

1) I believe Mike Sciocia and Bob Brenly would tell you that having experience is overrated

 

2) Aren't ALL relievers question marks? Outside of a handful of studs, don't all relievers fluctuate quite a bit from year-to-year? And, I think Japanese pitchers have a better track record than position players.

 

3) Rookie pitchers make questionable teams contenders every year. This year, why not the SOX?

 

4) Wasn't Bonds older than both when he hit 73 HR's?

 

 

5) Please, you'd have to go back to George H.W. Bush's reign to find the last time Flash put back-t0-back good seasons.

 

6) What is it about any team in the Central that scares you? Juan Gone is fragile, and a Me-first player that won't fit in KC's clubhouse, Beltran will be traded if they're not in contention come July, their bullpen is REAL old and their rotation has more holes in it than an Iraqi military base. Minnesota has just as many problems.

 

Have faith, brutha man.

[slick03]

their rotation has more holes in it than an Iraqi military base.  Minnesota has just as many problems.

good stuff man

[OZZ-fest 2004]

I am definitely optimistic about this year. Frank is behaving himself. Ozzie is going to make playing baseball fun again for them, and I believe the roster isn't as bad as some people say it is. That tub of goo Colon wasn't an ace last year, we lost an innings eater, not a spectacular pitcher. I'm glad he didn't sign that contract, as he would have been ripping us off. Williams has said that they will go out and get players if they are contending at mid-season. Why should he spend a fortune on a team who had the players last year, but underachieved? I'm all for waiting to see what this team can do before adding payroll. History has proven that you can't buy a World Series championship. The Yankees played much better when they were growing their own talent and not paying a fortune for it.

 

:fthecubs

[southsideirish]

Waitaminute, I don't think you're sorry at all.

 

I got over my pessimism when 2003 ended. Now it's all about SouthSide Koolaid. 

 

Hope spring-trains eternal!!!    

Yeah Brando Yeah!!!!!!!

 

Time for the South Side Koolaid

[Texsox]

And if we get to the playoffs we'll kick the Bo Sox or the Yankees or whoever? I'm tired of half ass attempts by this organization. They didn't try very hard to replace Colon, didn't find us a lead off guy. This is the exact opposite of last season. Then mid way through we'll hear JR whining about no one coming out to the games.

[baggio202]

Last season I saw a three or four year dynasty starting. This year I see us taking a step back while the Royals move ahead and the Twins look about the same. As positive as I was last season, is how negative I am this season.

 

What have we really done this off season?

 

Replaced JM with an unproven Manager (I like the move, but at best put it in the ?? category)

 

Brought in a Japanese reliever who again is a ??

 

Lost Colon who was solid down the stretch

 

Aged one year at DH and SS

 

Lost our second half 2nd baseman and CF

 

Last a good reliever in Flash

 

Aged one year from behind the plate and down the 3rd base line!! Lee, Crede, and Olivo that is probably the best thing that happened this off season. I think at least two, if not all three, will have break out years.

 

But on a balance, our only hope is that we underachieved last year and can over achieve this year. But with 38 days until opening day, I am not feeling alright.

 

:headshake  :headshake  :headshake

i got us for about 75 wins...if we do better and contend then ill be plesantly surprised....but judging the talent level i would say 75 wins is a fair prediction

[OZZ-fest 2004]

And if we get to the playoffs we'll kick the Bo Sox or the Yankees or whoever? I'm tired of half ass attempts by this organization. They didn't try very hard to replace Colon, didn't find us a lead off guy. This is the exact opposite of last season. Then mid way through we'll hear JR whining about no one coming out to the games.

Florida took care of the Yankees last year, why can't we?, and who says Willie Harris isn't going to be a great leadoff hitter this year? Yeah, I would have liked for us to get a solid pitcher, but it just didn't happen. No one expected what we got out of Loaiza last year, who says no one is going to step up? So many questions, can't help but to be excited and optimistic. I'm glad this is the exact opposite of last year, last year was heartbreaking and frustrating. I'm looking forward to watching this team and having low expectations.

[southsideirish]

i got us for about 75 wins...if we do better and contend then ill be plesantly surprised....but judging the talent level i would say 75 wins is a fair prediction

I dont think you are looking at the big picture then if you are just looking at our talent and then giving us 75 wins. Look at our division then look at our talent. Then we only have 75 wins? KC has no pitching at all!!!!!!! Detroit will still be awful. Cleveland is improved? I still don't see what all the critics see. Minnesota lost a lot of talent. We have the most complete team in the division. We have the best pitching staff in the division and we have a line up that can compete with anyone else's in the division. That along with the enthusiasm and intesnity Ozzie brings to our team we have as great a chance as any in the past 3 years to win this division. Be prepared to be very pleasantly suprised this year. Bet the over on the 82.5 wins the sox have at vegas. We will take this division.

[southsideirish]

And if we get to the playoffs we'll kick the Bo Sox or the Yankees or whoever? I'm tired of half ass attempts by this organization. They didn't try very hard to replace Colon, didn't find us a lead off guy. This is the exact opposite of last season. Then mid way through we'll hear JR whining about no one coming out to the games.

KW said he will make the necessary moves if we are in contention mid way through the season. I believe we will be. If he makes some improvements to this team there is no reason why we can't compete wtih the Yanks and Boston or anyone else in a 5 or 7 game series. The Yanks were scared of us at the end of last year. They were the wicked happy when we didn't make the playoffs last year. We will make moves if we are in contention. We will have a much easier time winning our division than the Yanks, Carmines, Mariners, Angels or A's will have. We will have a much easier time winning our division than the Crummies will winning theirs. Think of how great it will be when the much hyped Crummies don't even make the playoffs and the White Sox are running away with their division. This will be a great year!

[thomsonmi]

Baggio,

 

I'm new to this board. I respect you because in my brief time here it has become obvious that you are a passionate White Sox fan.

 

That being said I couldn't disagree with you more. I witnessed your protestations at Soxfest and though I understood your frustration as I feel it too. But, that's where we part ways.

 

I believe KW is also a passionate White Sox fan. I believe that he will bleed for this team. He bleeds black and silver.

 

Until last year, I didn't think he had the stuff. But, last year he did everything humanely possible to bring us a world championship. He put together a team that was as talented as any team in baseball. And, I believe he will do his level best to do it again. And, now I believe he is capable of doing it.

 

Clearly, last year's team underachieved. The talent is there. And, its still there. Our offense is too right handed and we will be counting on somebody to step up and fill the #4 and #5 starting positions but these problems are not overwhelming.

 

We have an excellent bullpen and we have as much power as any team in baseball this side of New York. If the starting pitching does its job and we hit like we're capable of this team will win 90 games. Book it.

 

[baggio202]

I dont think you are looking at the big picture then if you are just looking at our talent and then giving us 75 wins. Look at our division then look at our talent. Then we only have 75 wins? KC has no pitching at all!!!!!!! Detroit will still be awful. Cleveland is improved? I still don't see what all the critics see. Minnesota lost a lot of talent. We have the most complete team in the division. We have the best pitching staff in the division and we have a line up that can compete with anyone else's in the division. That along with the enthusiasm and intesnity Ozzie brings to our team we have as great a chance as any in the past 3 years to win this division. Be prepared to be very pleasantly suprised this year. Bet the over on the 82.5 wins the sox have at vegas. We will take this division.

if we played all our games within the division then id probably raise it some..but we play 80 games or so outside the division against some pretty talented teams...its possible .500 baseball could win the division this year...detroit and cleveland are better...kc about the same while the sox and minnesota took steps backwards..this division could be within 10 games from top to bottom...lets say kc with 81 wins and detorit with 71...

 

im sorry guys..im am not getting my hopes up again for an organization that keeps lowering payroll , lowering talent and raising ticket prices..i will not support it anymore..even if the sox win the division its only because they are in by far the weakest division in baseball....any other division in baseball at best we finish a distant 3rd...most likely 4th...they make no effort to put a legit world series team on the field...einhorn said as much himself....its coming right from the bosses mouth that they are just try to not stink...their goal is to play 500 baseball and every once in a while sneek up and win the division...so why should this year be the year they sneek up and win the division??...it usually happens about every 8 years..its not time yet...

 

to come out and say this team will win 90 -100 games is just wishful thinking..and it by some miracle it does happen im sure as hell not listening to any "i told you so" from anyone...because most of you are the same people that have been predicting 90-100 win seasons since '00...it reminds me of peter gammons...he's picked the red sox to win the world series like 37 straight years in a row now..when they finally win one he's gonna run around and tell everyone "see , i told you so"...

 

the team last year was much more talented than this one and won 84 games i think...predicting 75 wins is not pessimistic..its realisitic..

 

sorry if that rubs people the wrong way

[baggio202]

Baggio,

 

I'm new to this board.  I respect you because in my brief time here it has become obvious that you are a passionate White Sox fan.

 

That being said I couldn't disagree with you more.  I witnessed your protestations at Soxfest and though I understood your frustration as I feel it too.  But, that's where we part ways.

 

I believe KW is also a passionate White Sox fan.  I believe that he will bleed for this team.  He bleeds black and silver.

 

Until last year, I didn't think he had the stuff.  But, last year he did everything humanely possible to bring us a world championship.  He put together a team that was as talented as any team in baseball.  And, I believe he will do his level best to do it again.  And, now I believe he is capable of doing it.

 

Clearly, last year's team underachieved.  The talent is there.  And, its still there.  Our offense is too right handed and we will be counting on somebody to step up and fill the #4 and #5 starting positions but these problems are not overwhelming.

 

We have an excellent bullpen and we have as much power as any team in baseball this side of New York.  If the starting pitching does its job and we hit like we're capable of this team will win 90 games.  Book it.

 

what were your predictions the last 3 years..honestly , did you pick the sox to finish 2nd or 3rd and underachieve all three years???..if you did you are probably the only one...im tired of this nickel and dime crap...face it..this team has so many question marks it would take an act of God to have them all answered in the positive..

 

we have an excellent bullpen???...we have two proven performers in the pen..both lefties...our closer is probably the bigest question mark in all of baseball...mr.zero is a complete unknown..pollitte is coming off surgery..hell even wunsch has a few question marks about durability...he's been shelved twice for major arm problems the past 3 seasons...our last guy in the pen might very well be mike jackson , who was out of baseball all of last year...it could be an excellent pen..but it could implode too...

 

i remember guys last year telling us how d'angeloser was going to be a better 2nd baseman that ray durham..i remember one guy (cant remember his handle) saying after the first week d'angeloser already was better than ray...now this year people are saying willie harris will be better than ray..wanna bet next year we will be hearing so and so will be better than ray durham???

 

like i said im shooting for 75 wins...if we win 80 and finish 2nd ill look at it as overachieving...you'll be so upset ill have to buy you

[thomsonmi]

Baggio,

 

Your argument requires me to admit that last year's team didn't have the talent to win 95 or more games. Who had more talent then we had last year? The Red Sox? The Yankees? I'm sorry I just don't see it.

 

We vastly underperformed last year. I blame it on the fact that our manager was as inspiring as Dick Cheney. My confidence for the coming season isn't just fanatism its based on the feeling that we have talent. We made the one move we had to make. We fired Jerry Manuel.

 

We have underperformed for the last couple years. I believe that the changes we have made will fix that. Ozzie's energy will reinvigorate this team.

 

Now, energy alone isn't enough. But, my premise here is that we have the talent -- we just haven't performed.

 

And, I unlike you believe that White Sox management wants to win. I disagree with Reinsdorf's decision to cut the budget. My one biggest complaint is that I don't think Reinsdorf recognizes the potential this organization has from a revenue stand point. If he builds it they will come. It's doesn't work in the reverse.

 

Criticism of Reinsdorf to me is justified.

[baggio202]

Baggio,

 

Your argument requires me to admit that last year's team didn't have the talent to win 95 or more games.  Who had more talent then we had last year?  The Red Sox?  The Yankees?  I'm sorry I just don't see it.

 

We vastly underperformed last year.  I blame it on the fact that our manager was as inspiring as Dick Cheney. My confidence for the coming season isn't just fanatism its based on the feeling that we have talent.  We made the one move we had to make. We fired Jerry Manuel.

 

We have underperformed for the last couple years.  I believe that the changes we have made will fix that.  Ozzie's energy will reinvigorate this team.

 

Now, energy alone isn't enough.  But, my premise here is that we have the talent -- we just haven't performed.

 

And, I unlike you believe that White Sox management wants to win.  I disagree with Reinsdorf's decision to cut the budget.  My one biggest complaint is that I don't think Reinsdorf recognizes the potential this organization has from a revenue stand point.  If he builds it they will come.  It's doesn't work in the reverse.

 

Criticism of Reinsdorf to me is justified.

i dont see the talent..but here's to hoping im wrong and youre right..ill eat a little crow if it means fans of this franchise can finally stop suffering under the shadows of the idiots on the north side

[thomsonmi]

AMEN!

[southsideirish]

if we played all our games within the division then id probably raise it some..but we play 80 games or so outside the division against some pretty talented teams...its possible .500 baseball could win the division this year...detroit and cleveland are better...kc about the same while the sox and minnesota took steps backwards..this division could be within 10 games from top to bottom...lets say kc with 81 wins and detorit with 71...

 

im sorry guys..im am not getting my hopes up again for an organization that keeps lowering payroll , lowering talent and raising ticket prices..i will not support it anymore..even if the sox win the division its only because they are in by far the weakest division in baseball....any other division in baseball at best we finish a distant 3rd...most likely 4th...they make no effort to put a legit world series team on the field...einhorn said as much himself....its coming right from the bosses mouth that they are just try to not stink...their goal is to play 500 baseball and every once in a while sneek up and win the division...so why should this year be the year they sneek up and win the division??...it usually happens about every 8 years..its not time yet...

 

to come out and say this team will win 90 -100 games is just wishful thinking..and it by some miracle it does happen im sure as hell not listening to any "i told you so" from anyone...because most of you are the same people that have been predicting 90-100 win seasons since '00...it reminds me of peter gammons...he's picked the red sox to win the world series like 37 straight years in a row now..when they finally win one he's gonna run around and tell everyone "see , i told you so"...

 

the team last year was much more talented than this one and won 84 games i think...predicting 75 wins is not pessimistic..its realisitic..

 

sorry if that rubs people the wrong way

Every other team in our division also has to play against those same teams outside of our division. EACH TEAM! We are not the only team with that obstacle, yet you think those teams have a better chance than us? Ok, well I don't see it.

 

Please tell me how we have less talent, in terms of expectations, going into this year than we did going into last year, also in terms of expectations. Our bullpen actually is better going into this year. Our lineup is basically the same. The starting staff is basically the same. 20 game winner, Buehrle, Garland...., just like last year.

 

I think this is being far from realistic and thinking very pessimistically about your own team while at the same time thinking optimistically about other teams in our division. KC and MINN has as many holes if not more then the White Sox, yet you think they both have a better chance than we at winning our division. That is pessimistic. And I highly doubt that Detroit makes a 28 game jump from last year. Just my opinion.

 

I am by no means telling you to predict 90 to 100 wins. I am in no way telling you how to feel or think. A little optimism would be nice, but obviously not required to be a fan of the White Sox or a White Sox message boards. Then we wonder where we get this "negative attitude" reputation from?

[thomsonmi]

South sider and Irish. Good combination. No wonder, I agree with so much of what you said.