Haaaaarold Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Mike Imrem (Daily Herald) wrote a very interesting article today as to the vastly different approaches that the Sox and Chubs have taken in their treatment of their superstars, Frank and Sammy. Whether or not Frank is moody...the White Sox organization has never treated him the way he deserved to be. This is a good look at both situations: http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_imre...?intid=38042206 GO SOX GO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullcollapse Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 i don't know... to me that article makes it sound like the cubs revolve around sosa, and everyone is ok with that. last i checked there were 24 other guys there too.. and a manager and coaches. i'm all for treating all 25 guys equally, no matter who you are or what kind of numbers you put up. i'm not saying the sox have handled frank perfectly... but frank isn't exactly innocent either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 i'm not saying the sox have handled frank perfectly... but frank isn't exactly innocent either. I agree with this statement 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haaaaarold Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 I am not saying Frank is the perfect angel at all...but the White Sox do NOTHING to make him feel secure! Especially when Frank's personality needs to feel secure! Sammy is a self-centered egomaniac! Frank pouts too much! Sammy corked his bat! Frank sulks! Sammy smiles and gives cute little meaning-less quotes ("baseball been bery bery good to me")! Frank doesn't say anything! Frank has never been in trouble with the game or outside of the game! Sammy had a serious allegation of a criminal act while with the Sox! He cheated while playing the game and got busted for the whole world to see! Yet look at the feelings the media and organizations share for each player? Sammy is an annoyance to his teamates...ask Joe Girardi. Sammy runs the clubhouse. Frank doesn't talk much to his teamates. Only hits 42 homers and drives in 100+ runs. Somehow Sammy is a hero...and Frank is an asshole? Part of the problem is the White Sox organization! The organization should embrace him...he is arguably the greatest hitter ever to wear a White Sox uniform. That doesn't mean they treat him different from any of the other 24 players. He has earned the respect! Just as Carlton Fisk did! Just as Harold Baines did! Frank is easily in that category! Now as for marketing and promotion...Frank doesn't help much. But neither did Harold or Carlton. And besides...as long as Rob Gallas is running our marketing department...that aspect of our organization will always be a joke! How in the hell does Rob Gallas keep his job?? He is horrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullcollapse Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Sammy is an annoyance to his teamates...ask Joe Girardi. Sammy runs the clubhouse. Frank doesn't talk much to his teamates. Only hits 42 homers and drives in 100+ runs. Somehow Sammy is a hero...and Frank is an asshole? i think a lot of this is media perception... i don't give a rats ass if they think frank is an asshole though... they think bonds and sheffield are, they thought ted williams was, but if they wanted to be on my team i'd be ok with that. thomas also plays on the wrong side of chicago. so when something like a contract dispute happens it gets made into a much bigger deal that it is.... but when sammy acts up its ok, cause he gives the media the empty quotes they are looking for, you scratch my back i'll scratch yours type of thing... that is the way it seems to me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Parque Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I'm so sick of how Frank Thomas talks about how he has been mistreated by this organization. He says that the organization owes him everything. I have one question though. Since he has arrived in Chi-town how many playoff games has Frank Thomas won for his team. Answer: The same # as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I'd just like to point out that you have no idea what Frank is treated like by the Sox, or how he interacts with others on the team. Carry on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I'd just like to point out that you have no idea what Frank is treated like by the Sox, or how he interacts with others on the team. Carry on.. But Jay Mariotti said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 But Jay Mariotti said... Since Jay's been at the park less that a handfull of times.. and NEVER in the clubhouse... he's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Since Jay's been at the park less that a handfull of times.. and NEVER in the clubhouse... he's wrong. but but but.... Jay said it so it must be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haaaaarold Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 I'd just like to point out that you have no idea what Frank is treated like by the Sox, or how he interacts with others on the team. Carry on.. Not trying to be a dick but how do you know what I know? I have been in the clubhouse on more than a few occassions and I have been in the offices more than that. I am sure more than a few posters on this board can say the same. I have never had that experience on the north side. I can say that I do have a much better idea of how Frank is treated by the Sox than I do about Sammy and how he is treated by the chubs. Am I in the clubhouse everyday? No. So what? Not one writer in Chicago is at the Cell everday...do you call them out everytime they make a statement regarding any issue involving the White Sox? I don't understand why you felt the need to take a shot at me? Guess I need to be careful about posting something on this message board! Next time I should post credentials before posting something??? Sorry for trying to interact with Sox fans and reading opinions??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Not trying to be a dick but how do you know what I know? I have been in the clubhouse on more than a few occassions and I have been in the offices more than that. I am sure more than a few posters on this board can say the same. I have never had that experience on the north side. I can say that I do have a much better idea of how Frank is treated by the Sox than I do about Sammy and how he is treated by the chubs. Am I in the clubhouse everyday? No. So what? Not one writer in Chicago is at the Cell everday...do you call them out everytime they make a statement regarding any issue involving the White Sox? I don't understand why you felt the need to take a shot at me? Guess I need to be careful about posting something on this message board! Next time I should post credentials before posting something??? Sorry for trying to interact with Sox fans and reading opinions??? You weren't trying.. but you sure did a good job of it. Since you've never commented on such (where you've been, who you know), how would I have known that...?? So yes Haaarold... post your "credentials" - or at the very least say you've been somewhere to make such a statement - so people know that youre not just posting bulls***. Have you been in the offices lately..? How's Finny and Jim..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 As far as spending time in clubhouses and offices I have done neither with either team but I will ask this question, How many former players speak negatively about Thomas as compared to Sosa? Take the dips*** journalists/columnists out of the equation. The difference is one guy is a hot dog showman that caters to the media and the cameras, the other goes about his business, is honest to a fault and becasue he is not as affable (sp.) gets a raw deal. If the Sox treated Thomas so badly he would've left. It sosa wasn't so entrencehed in the mindlessness show that is the cub, he would've been traded for Soriano a few years back. Anyone see the picture of sir sosa in the Times today. Looks like to bags of money weren't needed this past offseason. I compare Thoams and sosa to a situation like this. Deion Sanders v. the Redskin cornerback whose name I can't remeber that played 21 years at corner. Who was better and who is more recognizable??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Darrel Green? Um Sosa is not even in Greens league let alone should be mentioned in the same breath. Sosa is happy because hes over paid. If Frank was making the money Sosa is making I doubt hed say anything and be all smiles too. Although how many times have you heard players complaining that Frank Thomas takes over the clubhouse and plays latin music no matter what? And Darrel Green rocks, he was Deion before Deion played. Just he was not as self promoting. Remember Deion came up with most of his own nicknames, and took limos to games at FSU. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 If the Sox treated Thomas so badly he would've left. That's the bottom line. Frank (from everything that I have ever seen with my eyes and heard with my ears) has issues with only ONE person employed with the White Sox... and he simply goes to the top and does not deal with this person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Darrel Green? Um Sosa is not even in Greens league let alone should be mentioned in the same breath. Sosa is happy because hes over paid. If Frank was making the money Sosa is making I doubt hed say anything and be all smiles too. Although how many times have you heard players complaining that Frank Thomas takes over the clubhouse and plays latin music no matter what? And Darrel Green rocks, he was Deion before Deion played. Just he was not as self promoting. Remember Deion came up with most of his own nicknames, and took limos to games at FSU. SB You missed my point. It is used as a comparison as to how media and self promotion can lead to an unrealistic perception of a player and a career. sosa=sanders; put up a pictue of sanders and green and who will be recognized a greater amount of the time? I guarantee you it is sanders. Darell Green is one of the greatest corners in football history, sanders was good/great for a couple of years but was figured out when pure athleticism was not enough. I beleive the same can be said for sosa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Yeah I know I missed the point. When I reread it I realized that, but by then it was to late. And yeah you are right that most wont recognize Green, I can picture his face but thats only because I watch so much sports that my brain has no room for other information. Although unlike Sosa, Deion had McCarver up his ass for playing in both a baseball game and a football game. I never did understand that, how do you attack a player for wanting to fufill both roles, that almost seems like he did not want to let anyone down. No one would ever attack prescious Sammy though, because he is so loveable. Screw Sosa, hes not even worth considering. Its the media that treats Frank and Sammy differently. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I'm so sick of how Frank Thomas talks about how he has been mistreated by this organization. He says that the organization owes him everything. I have one question though. Since he has arrived in Chi-town how many playoff games has Frank Thomas won for his team. Answer: The same # as me. You've won 2 playoff games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 A comparison of the two (I'll try to remain as unbiased as possible). Sammy Sosa A player who came into the major leagues posessing the 5 tools: good power (25-30 HR max potential), great speed (I can still remember him batting leadoff on quite a few occasions during the '89 season), good defense (and a cannon for an arm) and unlimited potential. The one major flaw in his game was his penchant for swinging at any and every pitch thrown to him. He took few to no walks in his time with the Sox. He was traded to the Cubs when the Sox were contending in the old AL West division in order to bring in an established vet (George Bell, ) who could help solidfy the lineup that already included among other people, Frank Thomas (who will be mentioned shortly). Because he was traded from pitcher-friendly Comiskey Park to hitter-friendly Wrigley Field, his power numbers could see a possible surge. Over the next couple of years, Sosa would begin to morph himself into the individual you see today. And while his home run total increased, in the process it robbed him of his speed and defensive skills. The arm that people were comparing to Jessie Barfield was long gone, and the 30/30 season he posted in the early to mid '90s was a thing of the past. The ultimate indictment in my opinion though, is the fact that he mostly benefitted from hitting home runs: A) with Mark McGwire, long a fan favorite. B.) home runs bring in casual fans and is considered the most exciting play in baseball. C) The aforementioned Wrigley Field, one of the easiest parks to hit home runs in. D) Having a baseball wound tighter to increase the number of home runs. As long as Sosa can always smile, do his hop/kissy face routine after every home run, and say things like "Baseball been berry berry good to me", he'll always have a white-hot spotlight on him. Frank Thomas A player who, like Sosa, also came in with great potential. While Thomas was not going to wow anyone defensively or on the basepaths, his hitting potential was unlimited. Unlike Sosa, Thomas reached his potential right away, winning his 1st MVP in his 3rd season (Sosa needed 9 to do it) and doing it again the very next year. Thomas was a perfect mix of power and average and next to Ken Griffey Jr and Barry Bonds (when he was a Sosa clone) was the most dangerous player in baseball. Thomas hit 32, 24, 41, & 38 homers from '90-94 when pitchers were still dominating the scene (and before the ball became tighter) while posting averages over .300 every year. However, mentioning that Thomas was a complete hitter meant he wasn't trying to swing for the fences in every at-bat (as Sosa did then, and now), so if Thomas came up in '98 when balls started flying out in record numbers, can you imagine the numbers he may have put up? My point with that, is that it is unfair to discount what Thomas did during the early '90s because Sosa was the benefactor of a doctored ball (and body). Ultimately, Frank's problem is that in many ways, he is the anti-Sosa. He speaks his mind, whether good or bad (Jackie Robinson situation that was blown out of proportion, yet writers like Mariotti smeared him regardless). You could say that he is his own worst enemy. But when you have media outlets playing favorites, there's not much he can do. Situations like the HOF where clueless writers like Gammons & Kurjkian almost guarantee Sosa a 1st ballot election. Even though Frank's numbers are only worse in home runs, they are better in every other category, yet his HOF candidacy is in doubt. For that, I blame the media and their ignorance of a player's consistent year by year achievements, not those in the last 5-6 years only. Sosa's crown has been dented a bit due to a corked bat and possible steroids accusation, yet is still given the benefit of the doubt by the press. Thomas, save for one average year (2002), one bad year (1999), and an injured year (2001) has put up consistent numbers, yet because he speaks his mind, gets ignored and ridiculed by members of the press. It's wrong, plain and simple. Sorry it was so long. But I had to get that off of my chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 You've won 2 playoff games? Damn, that was a b****slap. Nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 You've won 2 playoff games? Zing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfour Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Deion Sanders v. the Redskin cornerback whose name I can't remeber that played 21 years at corner. Who was better and who is more recognizable??? Uh, Deion Sanders is one of the greatest corners of all time, up there with guys like Mel Blount and Mike Haynes. Darrell Green? He was the fastest man in the NFL at one point, and by the time he hit 40 years of age, he was still in the top 50 or so. That's what kept him in the league for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfour Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Um Sosa is not even in Greens league let alone should be mentioned in the same breath. Well, that's ridiculous. Didn't Sosa hit 200 home runs in three years or whatever? Always a high batting average as well? Or am I wrong? Let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfour Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 sosa=sanders; put up a pictue of sanders and green and who will be recognized a greater amount of the time? I guarantee you it is sanders. Darell Green is one of the greatest corners in football history, sanders was good/great for a couple of years but was figured out when pure athleticism was not enough. I beleive the same can be said for sosa. OMG, please drop the football talk. Deion Sanders was the guy you wnt after if you wanted a super bowl trophy. Ask the 49ers and SWITZER Cowboys about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfour Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Situations like the HOF where clueless writers like Gammons & Kurjkian almost guarantee Sosa a 1st ballot election. Even though Frank's numbers are only worse in home runs, they are better in every other category, yet his HOF candidacy is in doubt. HOF candidacy in doubt? Not likely. He's received the second most MVP votes from 1990-2000. Only Bonds received more. You don't think that will be recognized when all is said and done? A 1.000 OPS through his first 15 seasons? Baseball writers are a lot smarter than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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