southsider2k5 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4389928/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkiconk Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 75% of priests get more sex than rosie o'donnell and she's on her honeymoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 The hypocrasy of this whole situation is a part of the reason I no longer am a practicing Catholic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 The REALLY sad part is, if this same percentage of worthless scum was found in any other tax-exempt organization, that organization would no doubt have its exempt status stripped, and may not be allowed to exist at all. And, if the heads of other charitable groups were found to be guilty of covering up such crimes, you could be sure there would be a MASSIVE housecleaning. Priests = enlightened messengers of god? The light that guides mankind to the path of salvation? Educators, counselors, examples of proper christian life? Bah, just a bunch of pederasts in robes that found a sweet way to get access to all kinds of young boy ass, without needing to work for a living to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 The REALLY sad part is, if this same percentage of worthless scum was found in any other tax-exempt organization, that organization would no doubt have its exempt status stripped, and may not be allowed to exist at all. And, if the heads of other charitable groups were found to be guilty of covering up such crimes, you could be sure there would be a MASSIVE housecleaning. Priests = enlightened messengers of god? The light that guides mankind to the path of salvation? Educators, counselors, examples of proper christian life? Bah, just a bunch of pederasts in robes that found a sweet way to get access to all kinds of young boy ass, without needing to work for a living to boot. GOWT, as an ordained memeber of the clergy, I am more angry about these things than you even are it makes me livid and there are a whole host of people who should be in jail now for starters I don't agree that everyone involved was a pederast to begin with or went searching for children - for many it is that they are denied every other form of available outlet and when the only thing that is available is so easily available because of all the baggage placed on the term "Father" (another gag and more sickness), then that stgarts looking good There is a Canadian movie, the Boys of St Vincent, which is excellent on the subject but it enrages me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 GOWT, as an ordained memeber of the clergy, I am more angry about these things than you even are it makes me livid and there are a whole host of people who should be in jail now for starters cw. Out of curiousity what would do you think about taking away the non profit status from groups that inhibit prosecution and investigations of its priests and other employees? Would it help, would it be counterproductive, would it be a deterant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Don't you get mad knowing that you are paying for the billions of dollars in settlements and legal fees, if i were still a catholic i would clean the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 GOWT, as an ordained memeber of the clergy, I am more angry about these things than you even are it makes me livid and there are a whole host of people who should be in jail now for starters I don't agree that everyone involved was a pederast to begin with or went searching for children - for many it is that they are denied every other form of available outlet and when the only thing that is available is so easily available because of all the baggage placed on the term "Father" (another gag and more sickness), then that stgarts looking good There is a Canadian movie, the Boys of St Vincent, which is excellent on the subject but it enrages me Vince, My over-general rant notwithstanding, I am aware there are many men of god who have no interest in assaulting young boys, and who have deep conviction and respect for the laws of the path they've chosen. I'm sure you are one of them, and I have no interest in seeing things you and others base your whole lives on destroyed. However, the catholic church is getting off wayyyyy too easy here, and an example must be made of those who abuse the trust and loyalty lent to them. Open ALL the records, go above and beyond any court-mandated retributions, reach out to those who have been hurt, and even those who may only think they were harmed. As someone who grew up going to catholic schools, I can say I've been given harsher penance for lying to my mother. Hypocrites, the lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Good Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 My priest is a part of the unfortante 5% of priest who abuse . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 There is a Canadian movie, the Boys of St Vincent, Yes. It's one with that Missions Impossible dude (one who headed the manhunt), right? When it came out in 1993, it made quite a furor. Now, it's a bit dated-- almost Lifetime-y. Like 4 hourse long, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Priests = enlightened messengers of god? The light that guides mankind to the path of salvation? Educators, counselors, examples of proper christian life? Bah, just a bunch of pederasts in robes that found a sweet way to get access to all kinds of young boy ass, without needing to work for a living to boot. Now that's just ridiculous. Outrage and pushing for reforms is one thing, but you do great dis-service to your cause with the last paragraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 one more reason why I hate the catholic church, go figure i'm still in a catholic high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 There are plenty of Catholic churches which don't have rapist f***s and can barely survive on the donations they get. If they got taxed, they would go under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Now that's just ridiculous. Outrage and pushing for reforms is one thing, but you do great dis-service to your cause with the last paragraph. I don't think so--those who are guilty of those crimes are exactly as I described them, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 There are plenty of Catholic churches which don't have rapist f***s and can barely survive on the donations they get. If they got taxed, they would go under. if they did lose tax-exempt status im sure the vatican would help out...they could afford it w/o much hardship... the question is has there been enough violations of the law to warrant the catholic church being penalized and losing its tax exempt status???...any tax exempt organization should consider that a priveledge and not a right...and conduct itself accordingly... now i dont think the acts of a few bad priests should cause the church to lose its status or be punished (other than the guilty priests)... but where the church fails is their blatant disregaurd for the harm their priests , working as leaders in the church ,caused to other humans..it was criminal behavior punishable by the law....... the obstruction of justice committed all over the country by numerous parrishes by just reassigning the priests to other parrishes to continue this behavior of hurt and not report the priest to the authorities for their criminal activity is unexcusable...for that reason i believe if the government ever decided to remove their tax exempt status i wouldnt have a problem with it... the church , as a tax exempt organization , has a responsibility to follow the laws of the land they are practicing in so long as those laws do not violate their right to worship freely..in this case nobody could argue the church's rights would have been violated if the guilty priess were turned over to the authorities for prosecustion along with any evidence...the catholic church failed miserably in this area.and deserves punishment imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Vince, My over-general rant notwithstanding, I am aware there are many men of god who have no interest in assaulting young boys, and who have deep conviction and respect for the laws of the path they've chosen. I'm sure you are one of them, and I have no interest in seeing things you and others base your whole lives on destroyed. However, the catholic church is getting off wayyyyy too easy here, and an example must be made of those who abuse the trust and loyalty lent to them. Open ALL the records, go above and beyond any court-mandated retributions, reach out to those who have been hurt, and even those who may only think they were harmed. As someone who grew up going to catholic schools, I can say I've been given harsher penance for lying to my mother. Hypocrites, the lot of them. GOWT, yes, the Roman Catholic Church has gotten away with a hell of a lot. They did it because their system allowed bishops to do things like relocate priests with no lay control or involvment and no knowledge as well as no clergy control. In a protestant church body there would be a lot of lay people and pastors who be privy to the information - but in the RC church the bishop doesn't have to tell anyone a thing, is accountable to no one, and is reportable to no one. In a protestant church body, you may have a clergy member commit abuse once and maybe twice and that would be it - the institutional controls are there. The first question a protestant church council askes when a new pastor is recommended to them is "why did you leave your last parish." A bishop who lied about that would be out of office so fast... because they have to report to the jurisdictional council and the (usaully) annual assemblies of lay and clergy delegates and stand for re-election, usually. An Episcopal bishop doesn't run for re-election but they still have to physically report to the diocese. There was an Epsicopal bishop out here who sexually harrassed an adult female. Once it was reported: the presiding bishop made his way to Kalamazoo and other bishops got on the phone and then there was the idea of that bishop having to stand before the annual assembly and look everyone in the eye and be held accountable in public by the people he is charged with protecting - so he reisgned as fast as he could. There must be institutuonal control, accountability, someone - a lot of people - to hold the bishop responsible. And it should be the people of the Church who hold the bishop and all clergy responsible. My rage at the Roman Church for what they have done is in part very personal besides my general outrage at injustice anyway. Someone very close to me was abused as a child by a Roman priest for a period of years and he was not the only altar boy so abused. That priest eventually got found and transferred to another parish, everything hushed up. My friend is a walking version of everything that can happen to a priest abused child, he has every sympton in the book and it really has destroyed his life because he can't bring himself to get help. To see it close up... When I was an intern pastor I took our high school youth group to New Orleans for a youth conferance and we went on a bus with another church. One morning one of my high school boys - the least reputable kid in the group, the one who might most be prone to lying - told me the other pastor had made some moves on him. There we were half way to New Orleans. I made sure that none of my kids got near that guy outside of my direct line of vision, there and back. When we got back, I didn't feel that I could really make a public accusation because as I said this kid was not the type most folks would believe, I didn't see it, and who was I a student pastor to make a charge like that without proof against a long time clergy. And my internship was up and I was leaving. So I made sure a few other area pastors knew what had happened, and I said, watch the situation, watch that guy like a hawk. They nailed him a few months later. He was out of the ministry, forever barred, before the bishop's plane touched down in that town. Last time my grandson and I stayed at a motel, there at the check in, they ask to see my id, I show my drivers license, my picture in my collar is on it (it helps when you get pulled over for speeding), they look at me, they look at the kid - that those perverts destroyed the trust of so many as well as wrecked their destruction on all those children with bishops who should be jailed for aiding and abetting - when I as a pastor pick up your kid to take your kid to confirmation class, the whole world must have absolute trust, just as when I visit your spouse at home on a pastoral call and you are away - must be total trust. There are some things you do not do. I am death on clergy who abuse children or anyone. One last thing. There is a theological dimension to this and I don't want to offend anyone. In my opinion, the Catholic church believes way too much in purity and gets stupid on sexual things. I am sorry - Mary screwed. She f***ed Joseph. Before or after the conception of Jesus, she was no perpetual vigrin and the idea that she was conceived without f***ing is even a sympton of a church that has not come to reality with sex. Yes, the mother of God f***ed. (Pause for outraged Romans to scream at me.) She had other children, apart from Jesus. It is there in the Bible plain as day. But the official theology there does not allow for a sweaty, writhing Mary having orgasm, saying "oh my God Joseph give it to me deeper deeper." (Pause for second wave of outrage.) The bishops can't handle that because that would detract from some picture of purity that is preferred. By being so hung up on sex - the bishops considered these priests to have problems with "purity" and if they said the required prayers enough times they could Imitate Christ better. So they said, you screwed that 14 year old boy, go and pray for purity - and when the priest said, yes Bishop, I have prayed for purity, they assigned the priest to a new parish with a whole new set of altar biys and boys in Pro Deo and and they were so available - all trained to say "yes Father, anything you say say Father." Of course it was never a matter of purity. It was never a matter of good intentions. As angry as some Catholics might be with what I said just above - know that half of my family are Catholic and I am not antiCatholic. People very close to me are Catholic. And that includes victims. What I said above was not meant to outrage really. But sex is not bad, whether it is Mary having it or these priests needing to be allowed to beat their own cocks off instead of thinking masturbation, priests beating off, was sinful - so they found someone else, another way, to take care of it. Denying them all available outlets, people will always find another... and the price was horrendously high. One abused child was too high a price. And that fed into the whole power trip. All clergy get off (so to speak) on power trips. I know where I do, what areas it is in. Hell, I like being first in line at the potluck dinner and I like always get asked to pray like I am a special guest and I like a good seat at wedding receptions. But too much power... these priests were not accountable to their parishes either. And it wasn't that the clergy, the Roman clergy, attracted pedophiles per se but that they attracted people who ahd the image of "yes Father anything you say father" and they pictured themselves in that role. Not just clergy. A lot of people in high positions or status professions like the authority thing - that is why using your authority over another is another legal charge in sex abuse cases. If a teacher, a cop, an attorney, a judge (and I have seen that one too) uses their position of authoirty to entice others - some people get off on that aspect of it. And if the Roman clergy had a flaw, it was not that they attracted pedophiles or perverts but that they attracted people who like the authority thing and then denied them any sexual outlet so you combine the two... I deeply apologise if I offended anyone. I was as honest as I can be here because this issue has touched my life. Scream at me those who will. I spoke honestly about what I believe and I apologise to those who were offended. But I remain outraged at every abused child who got abused because of the cover up. And I feeel badly for all Roman Catholic clergy who have been considered guilty by association with those who absued these children and I really resent the image they have given the Church and its clergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 cw. Out of curiousity what would do you think about taking away the non profit status from groups that inhibit prosecution and investigations of its priests and other employees? Would it help, would it be counterproductive, would it be a deterant? my last post was very long - this will be very short. The tax exempt status is not to benefit the Chruch per se (it probably is but we like the fiction). It is because of the schools, hospitals, social service agencies, etc etc etc. Hell if Lutheran Social Services closed their doors your taxes would go up because they handle such a percentage of the social cases. Imagine Cook Country running EVERY hospital. Not only would it be more costly tax wise but imagine your medical costs sky rocketing and hospitals closing... but you want goivernemnt running everything?... so the tax exempt status is in exchange for the social good that is done by it. The way to get at a corrupt church is not by the tax status. Civil suits. Sue their f***ing asses off. Did you notice that Cardinal Law of Boston stayed and stayed and stayed - until they got to the judgment portion of the civil verdict. When they were looking at $120,000,000 payout... all of a sudden someone took notice and all of a sudden Cardinal Law was gone. I have great hopes for every civil suit out there. When the judge suggests to an archdiocese's lawyers what the real financial payout will be - then there will be reform. and jail. Next bishop who goes to jail for aiding and abetting will be the first. Might be something to ask your local prosecutor/states attorney next election time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I don't think so--those who are guilty of those crimes are exactly as I described them, IMO. I knew my English wasn't good. Here I was thinking "priests" where you clearly stated "1 of 25 priests who's been found guilty". My bad. Look, I had a junior league soccer coach who was a pedophile (he still coaches, btw) with an excellent reputation in the community. He molested a few of my teammates over the 4 year period -- the rest of us were fortunate in that I guess we weren't pretty enough for him -- although his famous "massages" would probably land him in jail in the US. Should I make border-line irresponsible, sweeping generalizations and condemn the rest of the junior league coachdom because of that scumbag? I probably knew 20 coaches either through my league or my older brother's volleyball league, and I would bet most if not all of them wouldn't even think about committing these despicable acts. You know my stance on religion/spirituality. I am not exactly a Church apologist in any conventional sense. But I was just suprised that someone as intelligent as you would eschew debating the finer points of this complex and heartbreaking crisis in favor of a rhetorical scythe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Yes, the mother of God f***ed. But the official theology there does not allow for a sweaty, writhing Mary having orgasm, saying "oh my God Joseph give it to me deeper deeper Do the Scriptures specify her favorite position or if she was multi-orgasmic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Did you notice that Cardinal Law of Boston stayed and stayed and stayed - until they got to the judgment portion of the civil verdict. When they were looking at $120,000,000 payout... all of a sudden someone took notice and all of a sudden Cardinal Law was gone. Cabaret had a nice lil number that pretty much sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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