DBAHO Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 From ESPN, and Marvin Benard is invovled too. SAN FRANCISCO -- Barry Bonds received steroids and human growth hormone from a nutritional supplements lab implicated in a steroid-distribution ring, according to information given to federal investigators, the San Francisco Chronicle reported late Monday on its Web site. Investigators also were told that New York Yankees stars Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield, as well as three other major leaguers and one NFL player, were given steroids, the newspaper reported. Bonds' personal trainer, Greg Anderson, gave the players the drugs from the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, according to information given to the government and shared with the newspaper. The newspaper stated that its information did not "explicitly state" that the athletes used the steroids after obtaining them. Bonds, Giambi and Sheffield, all of whom testified last fall before the grand jury that indicted four men in the alleged steroid-distribution ring, have denied steroid use. The three men declined comment Monday when contacted by the newspaper.; "We continue to adamantly deny that Barry was provided, furnished or supplied any of those substances at any time by Greg Anderson," Bonds' attorney Michael Rains told the newspaper. Sheffield's attorney, Paula Canny, told the paper: "Gary Sheffield has never knowingly ingested a steroid ... and Gary Sheffield has never knowingly applied an anabolic steroid cream to his body." Prosecutors released documents last month saying Anderson told federal agents he gave steroids to several professional baseball players. None of those players was identified in those documents. Anderson's attorney, Tony Serra, said last Friday that Bonds "never took anything illegal" and that the slugger was offered -- but rejected -- a substance at the heart of the government's case against the four indicted men. That substance, according to government documents, was the recently unmasked steroid THG. Anderson has been charged with participating in a steroid-distribution ring that provided performance-enhancing drugs to professional athletes. Also charged have been BALCO founder Victor Conte and the lab's vice president, James Valente, as well as track coach Remi Korchemny. All four have pleaded not guilty and are free on bond. The Chronicle reported that two of Bonds' former teammates -- Marvin Benard of the Chicago White Sox and Kansas City catcher Benito Santiago -- and former Oakland infielder Randy Velarde also received performance-enhancing drugs, as did Oakland Raiders linebacker Bill Romanowski. An anonymous source told the Chronicle that Anderson provided Bonds with steroids and human growth hormone as far back as 2001, when the slugger hit 73 homers to break the single-season record. Bonds has 658 career homers -- 97 shy of Hank Aaron's career mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 The Chronicle reported that two of Bonds' former teammates -- Marvin Benard of the Chicago White Sox and Kansas City catcher Benito Santiago -- and former Oakland infielder Randy Velarde also received performance-enhancing drugs, as did Oakland Raiders linebacker Bill Romanowski. Did you happen to notice the paragraph above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Who the hell is Marvin Benard, might I ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Who the hell is Marvin Benard, might I ask? A guy who is in camp with us trying to catch on as our 4th or 5th OFer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Noooo not Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi. You can't be serious. Them on steroids, I would have never thought those two of being on roids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 A guy who is in camp with us trying to catch on as our 4th or 5th OFer. Thanks for the info! I hadn't heard of him 'til today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Noooo not Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi. You can't be serious. Them on steroids, I would have never thought those two of being on roids. My question is this, if it is proved that they received the 'roids, how should MLB handle it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Thanks for the info! I hadn't heard of him 'til today. http://www.baseballreference.com/b/benarma01.shtml These are his career numbers. He had been a Giant his whole career up until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Fine...I can believe the baseball players...BUT NOT BILL ROMANOWSKI!!! Say it isn't so!!! What a scoop on that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 ahahahaha single season HR record ERASED possible career HR record IGNORED career legacy TAINTED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 My question is this, if it is proved that they received the 'roids, how should MLB handle it? I believe an asterisk next to every statistic they produced since they were found to be taking steroids. That should do the trick. That would show that it was tainted by steroid consumption. Caminiti should have an asterisk next to his MVP award and Canseco next to everything he has ever done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 ahahahaha single season HR record ERASED possible career HR record IGNORED career legacy TAINTED Based on what...? That someone said they gave him roids? Unless they have video of Bonds shooting himself up.. and the needle itself to be tested to prove that it's roids in it... they aint got s***, and none of his accomplishments will be effected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Fine...I can believe the baseball players...BUT NOT BILL ROMANOWSKI!!! Say it isn't so!!! What a scoop on that one... Jeeze what gave that one away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Did you happen to notice the paragraph above? I understand Santiago, but Bernard and Velarde? Come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I don't think baseball can do anything about it. Like Steff said, unless they have undeniable proof they did the roids they will do nothing. All the fans on the other hand will feel it is tainted and will not give credence to them though. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Based on what...? That someone said they gave him roids? Unless they have video of Bonds shooting himself up.. and the needle itself to be tested to prove that it's roids in it... they aint got s***, and none of his accomplishments will be effected. Possession is 9/10ths of the law. I really don't know what that means but it sounds appropriate in this case. As does the statement, "Perception is reality." I just want an even playing field and can't get past the thought of suddenly a guy hits 50 homers then never amounts to anything (Brady Anderson.) Then within a couple of years of this feat the 60/70 plateau is reached on a regular basis. Then with the Caminiti, Conseco and other speculations whispers begin, BALCO the Atkins diet gets guys in shape, size of parks, tightly wound baseballs, watered down pitching, sure these all contribute. The key in my mind will be what happens this year Sosa with 35 HR, Bonds with 40, Giambi with 28. The argument of parks and pitchers will lead to more guys with 30 to 40 homers but I do nto think it would allow guys to hit 60 and 70. That is my perception and thus jaded reality. I do like how Sox camp seems to be going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Possession is 9/10ths of the law. I really don't know what that means but it sounds appropriate in this case. As does the statement, "Perception is reality." And if they catch them with the roids red handed.. then it would apply. If they test them.. and they are there.. then there's no getting around it. That's kind of my point.. none of them (those implicated here) will EVER test positive. Their records will never be questioned because nothing can be proved. Even the validity of whether or not they actually got sent anything is a question. Who made that statement..? The guy trying to save his ass..? And who's to say there were in fact roids in the FedEx packages? FedEx doesn't open & inspect. Could have been anything. Could have been those involved in BALCO sending love notes setting up a trail to make it look like Sheff was getting shipped roids... This story has zero chance of being proved beyond a doubt to effect any records. JMO.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 And if they catch them with the roids red handed.. then it would apply. If they test them.. and they are there.. then there's no getting around it. That's kind of my point.. none of them (those implicated here) will EVER test positive. Their records will never be questioned because nothing can be proved. Even the validity of whether or not they actually got sent anything is a question. Who made that statement..? The guy trying to save his ass..? And who's to say there were in fact roids in the FedEx packages? FedEx doesn't open & inspect. Could have been anything. Could have been those involved in BALCO sending love notes setting up a trail to make it look like Sheff was getting shipped roids... This story has zero chance of being proved beyond a doubt to effect any records. JMO.. Steff, I think you hit the nail on the head..... Here is the problem with this whole thing..... I can understand the players argument here. Whether it is truthful or not, who knows, but I don't see a way to prove it. The players are saying in so many words that they never knowingly took anything that was illegal. Considering that the substance in question wasn't known to exist. It couldn't have been illegal if no one knew it existed. Of course, it has since been discovered and found to be an illegal steroid, but can you go back and punish someone for taking something that they may or may not have known exactly what it was? They could have been told it was a new supplement and not given the details. If I am Barry Bonds and I am a long time friend of my trainer and he comes to me and says hey, I have this new supplement I want you to try, I'd trust him and do it. New supplement products become available daily. It would be like him asking me to change from Myoplex to MetRx. I trust him and wouldn't consider questioning him until all of this recently came out. Granted, Bonds and MLB players have the ultimate responsibility to know what is going into their bodies and they cannot be completely excused here. But I think you would have a hard time punishing them in this case. Baseball will have a tough road with this one. I do think the players legacy will be tainted somewhat. The bottom line is the players can be considered shady or stupid. Neither makes them look very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Granted, Bonds and MLB players have the ultimate responsibility to know what is going into their bodies and they cannot be completely excused here. But I think you would have a hard time punishing them in this case. Baseball will have a tough road with this one. I do think the players legacy will be tainted somewhat. The bottom line is the players can be considered shady or stupid. Neither makes them look very good. The bottom line is that if they say they never took anything.. and there's no proof they took anything.. then where's the argument to "taint" their records?? There isn't one. It's not like the roids came flying out when Bonds hit his record HR.. know what I mean... This is such a non issue - as far as labeling these guys with a scarlet R on their chest. No one will ever know.. and to be honest.. I don't think anyone will care in 5 weeks when we're all lining up at the turnstyles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Speaking from experience SouthSide??LMAO J/K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Speaking from experience SouthSide??LMAO J/K of course I am, you have a problem with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 The bottom line is that if they say they never took anything.. and there's no proof they took anything.. then where's the argument to "taint" their records?? Steff, perception can sometimes be worse than reality. In many people's minds, Bonds will be associated with steroids, fairly or not. Will there be any official repurcussions, no? Will that still be part of the discussion when talking about Barry Bonds 20 years from now? I believe it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Of course no one will PROVE that these players took steroids. The b**** ass players union won't allow that to go down. However, the ridiculous power burst from never hitting 50 to hitting 73, having a humongoid skull, and involvement with steroid people will taint Barry's records and career in the public's perception. It's like OJ. He wasn't found guilty, but people think more of OJ the murderer than they do OJ the allpro running back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 OK here is the deal. I split out all of the BS off topic stuff, and put it on the OT board, where I am going to lock it. This is a good and relevant topic, so I am openning this part back up for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Guys.. I'm sorry that turned into what it did. That was not my intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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