Gene Honda Civic Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 I know there aren't many fans of A-train around here, but he has been beter than TJ at both the collegiate and professional levels. Here's the NFL carrer stats... Thomas Jones -- Career Stats A-Train career stats A-train has a Better YPC average than TJ. The most glaring stat is that in four full NFL seasons, TJ has only 6 carries over 20yds. Compared to the train who had 8 just last season. That's 6 20+yd. carries in 499att. (Clinton Portis has 24 in 2 NFL seasons(563 carries)) Breaking that down further. That means TJ breaks a long run ,roughly, 1 in every 80 attempts. Whereas the train breaks one ,roughly, one every 40 attempts. Some of you will argue that Jones was lacking the O-Line that Train had. I'd counter by saying what was the Bears biggest weakness last season? Who did they hire in the offseason to be the O-line coach? (former Cards O-line Coach) The Cardinals ranked 29 last season in rushing offense. One of only five teams to average under 100yds a game. The Bears just lost one of thier starting G's. There's not too much about this line to enstill confidence that they will be able to open holes for TJ that they couldn't for the Train. And even if the do, the stats show he will only break a run half as much as the Train. My point is, I'm not at all excited about the TJ signing. I'll be happy when I see a fundamental O-line and D-line that the Bears can build around. Hopefully that can happen in the rest of the off-season. Currently the Bears interior linemen look alright, even with the loss of villarrial. Tucker, Kreutz, & Gandy are all solid. But, There are two gaping holes to fill at the Tackle position. Supposedly we are going to be installing a KC-style offense. Think about most of Priest Holmes' TD runs.... They were runs to the outside. KC was the best in the league at running that way. Right now, the Bears are a long way from that. /sorry long post.... Sometimes I get a little carried away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Jones was on the Bucs last year...shared carries with Alstott and Pittman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 Jones was on the Bucs last year...shared carries with Alstott and Pittman. Yeah last season he broke a big run, roughly, 1 in every 70 carries, compared to the Train's 1 in every 35 -- It's still a two to one ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillieHarris2 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 i like train, but thats probably just because im a michigan fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 To compare these 2 backs is kinda silly... the Train has been a starter for 3 years... and TJ has always been a platoon guy. Lovie is a bright guy he'll figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Signin Jones is a big, big risk. I wouldn't be suprised if he tanks it for a few years now that's he got a nice long term deal. Then again, Priest Holmes went to KC and became a star, Shea's goin to try and do that to Thomas Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Signin Jones is a big, big risk. I wouldn't be suprised if he tanks it for a few years now that's he got a nice long term deal. Then again, Priest Holmes went to KC and became a star, Shea's goin to try and do that to Thomas Jones. Contracts arent gauranteed in the NFL so I doubt he tanks it do to laziness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 While I'm not the biggest fan of the Jones signing, I'm going to remain optimistic. Im hoping and expecting lovie and the staff to do something special with this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 Signin Jones is a big, big risk. I wouldn't be suprised if he tanks it for a few years now that's he got a nice long term deal. Then again, Priest Holmes went to KC and became a star, Shea's goin to try and do that to Thomas Jones. Yeah my actual worry is NOT about jones.... It's about the O-line... Hopefully they can shore that up and either back would succeed. Comparing TJ to Pre-KC-offense-Priest: PH didn't play at all his rookie season. PH had about 50 fewer carries than TJ, yet broke 4 more "big runs". Had a "big run" ratio of about 1 in 45, compared to TJ's 1 in 80. PH had a YPC average of 4.6, TJ-3.8. However, comparing only thier last year before free-agency, they are amazingly simillar. Recieving: PH had less receptions for fewer yards than TJ, but had more receptions per year. The numbers are a little off becaue PH didn't play his rookie year. They are very comparable recieving the ball out of the backfield. Tale of the tape PH: 5'9" 213lbs. TJ: 5'10" 220lbs. A-Train: 6'2" 228lbs. Verdict TJ is probably the most "priest-like" RB available, and obviously that is what the Bears are looking for. This deal could end up being a steal. TJ hasn't broken many big runs, or many tackles for that matter. I hope for the best, But still reserve my "I told you so" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 TJ= catching the ball vs. AT = not catching the ball. In this offense, TJ has a much higher ceiling than Thomas. Besides, TJ isn't the same since his days in Arizona, he is much more mature as a runner and person. Angelo is a pretty decent judge of talent, and he is high on TJ. This is the second time he has acquired him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 Angelo is a pretty decent judge of talent, and he is high on TJ. This is the second time he has acquired him. I don't think so... Angelo was with the Bears last offseason when the bucs acquired TJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 I don't think so... Angelo was with the Bears last offseason when the bucs acquired TJ. Thomas Jones in John Shoop's scheme? That woulda been a waste of payroll. Look for a lot of Bears WR's to have career years this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Am i the only one that feels insanely good about the bears chances next year? I'm thinking playoffs and nothing less for the first time in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 Am i the only one that feels insanely good about the bears chances next year? I'm thinking playoffs and nothing less for the first time in years. actually despite all of my reservations, I can see the opportunity for the bears to be extremely good next year... They have such a solid base already in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 If they somehow bring in Tait AND another good tackle, then Gibson shifts into guard with Tucker as the other guard and Edwards, Gandy, and Colombo on the bench. Thats a pretty damn nice OLINE if you ask me. Tait is a freaking pro bowler as a RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 The Bears seem to be trying to get away from the pussy offense of 3 yard runs and 2 yard passes. Jones has more speed than ATrain, so they can run to the outside now, plus he can catch out of the backfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 It's not like this signing will eat up all of our payroll, he's only making a bit over 2 million per year. I'm happy with the signing, and I think Thomas Jones and Anthony Thomas can make a nice 1-2 punch. Sealgep, A-Train can catch the ball out of the backfield. He did it in college and did it well. Shoop never used him to catch it out of the backfield. Give him a chance, I remember hearing the players saying in his first year he was very good at catching it out of the backfield. I really, really like our odds this year, especially if we can get Tait and another CB, and better our O-Line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 I know there aren't many fans of A-train around here, but he has been beter than TJ at both the collegiate and professional levels. Here's the NFL carrer stats... Thomas Jones -- Career Stats A-Train career stats A-train has a Better YPC average than TJ. The most glaring stat is that in four full NFL seasons, TJ has only 6 carries over 20yds. Compared to the train who had 8 just last season. That's 6 20+yd. carries in 499att. (Clinton Portis has 24 in 2 NFL seasons(563 carries)) Breaking that down further. That means TJ breaks a long run ,roughly, 1 in every 80 attempts. Whereas the train breaks one ,roughly, one every 40 attempts. Some of you will argue that Jones was lacking the O-Line that Train had. I'd counter by saying what was the Bears biggest weakness last season? Who did they hire in the offseason to be the O-line coach? (former Cards O-line Coach) The Cardinals ranked 29 last season in rushing offense. One of only five teams to average under 100yds a game. The Bears just lost one of thier starting G's. There's not too much about this line to enstill confidence that they will be able to open holes for TJ that they couldn't for the Train. And even if the do, the stats show he will only break a run half as much as the Train. My point is, I'm not at all excited about the TJ signing. I'll be happy when I see a fundamental O-line and D-line that the Bears can build around. Hopefully that can happen in the rest of the off-season. Currently the Bears interior linemen look alright, even with the loss of villarrial. Tucker, Kreutz, & Gandy are all solid. But, There are two gaping holes to fill at the Tackle position. Supposedly we are going to be installing a KC-style offense. Think about most of Priest Holmes' TD runs.... They were runs to the outside. KC was the best in the league at running that way. Right now, the Bears are a long way from that. /sorry long post.... Sometimes I get a little carried away Stats are sometimes very misleading. First of all Train does not fit this offense well at all. Speed and pass catching ability are not Train's biggest strengths. Those two things are what this offense needs from its RB to work effectively. Anthony Thomas' first year was not as good as you think it was. Yes he had a 4.3 yard average and was rookie of the year. But everyone knows he did not deserve that honor, that honor belonged to a much better RB by the name of LaDanian Tomlinson. He only had 4 games over 100 yards that year. Going over 1,000 yards in a 16 game season is hardly impressive. It comes out to be about 63 yards per game. Is that really what you want out of an RB? Train had the luxury of having a good, not great, but good OLine in 2001. Brockenmeyer had a really good year. He also had Big Cat, Rex Tucker, Olin Kruetz, and Chris Villarial. Not too shabby. He had the luxury of playing on a team that was in just about every game to the end. This gives him more opportunities to carry the ball and get into a rhythm and into the flow of the game. He had 278 carries that year. Thomas Jones' biggest problem was protecting the passer during blitzes. Supposedly he worked a great deal on that last year and improved greatly. To compare stats is kinda silly since he was never given a full time job anywhere or many carries. It had something to do with bad luck as well as being on a bad team and splitting carries. He had wierd injuries and illnesses. Breaking your hand while hanging up the phone? Arizona didn't just have a horrible O line while he was there but they had a horrible team. It is hard to run the ball when you are down by 20 points IN THE 2nd QUARTER! He proved a lot last year to a lot of people. A 4.6 YPC is nothing to sneeze at, which he produced last year for the Bucs. The most Train ever had was 4.3 during his rookie 2001 season. The most carries he ever had was 138. The LEAST Train had was 214. Huge difference. Hard to get into the game and get a rthym going when you only average around 10 carries a game. You can't really compare stats of long runs when you are not given much opportunity to get into some type of rthym. Well you can, I mean you did, but it just isn't a fair comparison. If you want to compare Train's season last year to that of Jones' by YPC then Jones wins 4.6 to 4.2 and Jones was a part timer. Both lines for both teams were equally bad last year. The biggest stat that stands out to me is that Jones nearly doubled Thomas in career receptions, 97-55. That is while Jones is a part timer. Is it because the Bears didn't throw to the backs or becuase Thomas can't catch? Maybe a mixture of both? Either way it is not even close when it comes to that. The major point is Train does not fit this offense. Speed and catching the ball are the major differences. Those are TJs strong points and they are Train's weak points. It is as simple as that. It really doesn't matter who has the better stats coming into the season. If the Bears are able to sign Tait and able to draft a guy like Pape from Michigan then they will be set on the line in my opinion. To have a line of Tait, Tucker, Kreutz, Gandy, and Pape/Gibson is a very good line in my opinion. Thomas Jones has the speed to get to the outside and turn the corner, Train obvioulsy does not. I don't think the Bears are as far away as you may think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 It's not like this signing will eat up all of our payroll, he's only making a bit over 2 million per year. I'm happy with the signing, and I think Thomas Jones and Anthony Thomas can make a nice 1-2 punch. Sealgep, A-Train can catch the ball out of the backfield. He did it in college and did it well. Shoop never used him to catch it out of the backfield. Give him a chance, I remember hearing the players saying in his first year he was very good at catching it out of the backfield. I really, really like our odds this year, especially if we can get Tait and another CB, and better our O-Line. Your right with the salary. We basically traded Holdman for Jones. Jones fits right into the spot Holdman vacated in terms of salary. I never saw Train look comfortable catching the ball in college or pros. He didn't seem to get much after the catch at all. I don't believe there will be a one two punch. That has not been the case in either the KC system or ST Louis system. They like to find a starting RB and use him for every down. I do agree with you with Tait and maybe a Troy Vincent CB, then draft for OLine help and WR or DLine as well. I think the Bears will be very good this upcoming year. PLus the division looks ripe for the taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Whoever wins the job and gets the majority of the carries will have to do it with Gandy at RG. Villirial signed a deal with Buffalo today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 I don't know much about Jones, but I did here Dallas was looking at him as well. If Parcell's was interested in him, there must be something worthwhile there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 I don't know much about Jones, but I did here Dallas was looking at him as well. If Parcell's was interested in him, there must be something worthwhile there. Yeah he was YASNY, but I think he was too much of a risk for Bill. I think we end up signin Duce Staley pretty soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Whoever wins the job and gets the majority of the carries will have to do it with Gandy at RG. Villirial signed a deal with Buffalo today. I don't have a problem with that at all. I have also heard Lacina's, Edwards', and Mitchell's names brought up. I think the Bears think they are ok at the Guard spot. I think the Bears offered him good money, he just wnated a change of scenery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 a-train , thomas jones , who cares...with the offensive line the bears will have this year no one will look good....it all starts and ends in the trenches..and until the bears address both sides of the line 5 or 6 wins is all we are looking at... missing out on the freak really hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 a-train , thomas jones , who cares...with the offensive line the bears will have this year no one will look good....it all starts and ends in the trenches..and until the bears address both sides of the line 5 or 6 wins is all we are looking at... missing out on the freak really hurt So negative Mr. Baggs. I think the Bears will undoubtly address the LT position in free agency. The RT position will be addressed in the 2nd round of the draft. Our interior line will be very good with Tucker, Kreutz, and Gandy. We should have a very good line. Kearse? Don't you think he was just a little overpaid? Just a little overrated? The man is more hype than actual performance. The man has a lot of trouble staying on the field. When he plays he is very good, unfortunatley that is not the case very often. Now that he has struck it rich he has even less incentive to play while injured. I don't believe we missed out on much and I would rather spend it on other needs. John Tait, Troy Vincent, and Grant Winstrom are all good players. I wouldn't mind having DT Brian Young from St Louis either. I think we may draft a DT in the draft though, if Wilfork is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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