WillieHarris2 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 i agree i think the contract we offered the freak was a more then what he's worth also i think da bears offensive line will be just like last year but i hope coloumbo makes a nice return, the kid has lots of potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 i agree i think the contract we offered the freak was a more then what he's worth also i think da bears offensive line will be just like last year but i hope coloumbo makes a nice return, the kid has lots of potential. Well if the Bears line is just like last year then we are in som big trouble. We need tackles to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillieHarris2 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 ya and i dont think they will be much more succesfull unless they draft a solid lineman in the second round or pick up a lineman via free agency. i think this line has potential but i dont forsee them as being VERY good like you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 Anthony Thomas' first year was not as good as you think it was. Yes he had a 4.3 yard average and was rookie of the year. But everyone knows he did not deserve that honor, that honor belonged to a much better RB by the name of LaDanian Tomlinson. He only had 4 games over 100 yards that year. Going over 1,000 yards in a 16 game season is hardly impressive. It comes out to be about 63 yards per game. Is that really what you want out of an RB? The Train wasn't the starter until after the 4th game, plus missed 2 games due to injury. So he really only recieved the bulk of the carries in 10 games... In those 10 games -- train rushed for 1059yds. So yes, I'll take a 105 yd average from my back... In the remaining games, two of them he had a YPC average over 5yds. and the other two he carried only 3 times total. Breaking your hand while hanging up the phone? You don't actually believe that right? To compare stats is kinda silly since he was never given a full time job anywhere or many carries. It had something to do with bad luck as well as being on a bad team and splitting carries. Having a good YPC average is actaully easier when you have a smaller sample set to draw from. Here's a collection of backs that split time, and had comparable or better YPC averages than TJ. Brian Westbrook Charlie Garner Warrick Dunn Onterrio Smith Michael Bennet Duce Staley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 So negative Mr. Baggs. I think the Bears will undoubtly address the LT position in free agency. The RT position will be addressed in the 2nd round of the draft. Our interior line will be very good with Tucker, Kreutz, and Gandy. We should have a very good line. Kearse? Don't you think he was just a little overpaid? Just a little overrated? The man is more hype than actual performance. The man has a lot of trouble staying on the field. When he plays he is very good, unfortunatley that is not the case very often. Now that he has struck it rich he has even less incentive to play while injured. I don't believe we missed out on much and I would rather spend it on other needs. John Tait, Troy Vincent, and Grant Winstrom are all good players. I wouldn't mind having DT Brian Young from St Louis either. I think we may draft a DT in the draft though, if Wilfork is still there. overpaid ..probably..overrated??...hardly..guys the real deal... hopefully we can steal winstrom with an 11th hour deal...his speed off the end would really be a breathe of fresh air around here... what's there to be so positive about???..outside of a miraculous '00 the bears have sucked for over a decade now..what makes you think this year will be any different??? last year's offensive line was a mash unit before the season started...now we are w/o villareal...but everything is ok please explain why i should be so excited about the upcoming season??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 what's there to be so positive about???..outside of a miraculous '00 the bears have sucked for over a decade now..what makes you think this year will be any different??? last year's offensive line was a mash unit before the season started...now we are w/o villareal...but everything is ok please explain why i should be so excited about the upcoming season??? The fact that we will actually have an NFL offense is something to be positive about to me. No more Shoop makes me happy and positive. We already had an above average D once we started playing the rookies. You combine that with an above average offense and we can make the playoffs in this weak division. Was Villarial really all that good? I don't think so. Definately not when you have guys like Metcalf and Gandy that can take his place. What is there not to be excited about? Brand new coaching staff. A for real NFL offense, one that could resmeble the Chiefs and Rams if we get some OTs in here. A defense that was looking really good at the end of last season that can only improve with our rookies getting experience last year. Jerry Azumah will be the returner for the whole year. Always look on the brighter side Baggs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 The Train wasn't the starter until after the 4th game, plus missed 2 games due to injury. So he really only recieved the bulk of the carries in 10 games... In those 10 games -- train rushed for 1059yds. So yes, I'll take a 105 yd average from my back... In the remaining games, two of them he had a YPC average over 5yds. and the other two he carried only 3 times total. You don't actually believe that right? Having a good YPC average is actaully easier when you have a smaller sample set to draw from. Here's a collection of backs that split time, and had comparable or better YPC averages than TJ. Brian Westbrook Charlie Garner Warrick Dunn Onterrio Smith Michael Bennet Duce Staley So you are taking what he did in one miraculous season and make that his career? What about 2002 and 2003? Do I believe that Jones broke his hand? or do I believe he broke his hand while slamming down the phone? Does it really matter how he broke it? It is still a freakish injury, plus he also missed part of a season with pnemounia. How many backs are in this league? You picked 6 to make that comparison? I will tell you this Jones is closer to all of those backs than Thomas in ability. They are all speed backs. That is not the Train. I don't think you are really trying to compare Thomas to those backs in terms of break away ability are you? Because there isn't one. Stats are very deceiving at times, this is one of those cases. I really don't think you believe that Train is a break away threat whenever he touches the ball. Jones can be. Jones is also younger than Train even though he has played more years. Jones is a better fit for this offense than Train. I really don't know how you can dispute that. If Train was really that great the Bears would have received an offer from another team willing to trade at least a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I doubt they have received such an offer as Train is still here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 The fact that we will actually have an NFL offense is something to be positive about to me. No more Shoop makes me happy and positive. We already had an above average D once we started playing the rookies. You combine that with an above average offense and we can make the playoffs in this weak division. Was Villarial really all that good? I don't think so. Definately not when you have guys like Metcalf and Gandy that can take his place. What is there not to be excited about? Brand new coaching staff. A for real NFL offense, one that could resmeble the Chiefs and Rams if we get some OTs in here. A defense that was looking really good at the end of last season that can only improve with our rookies getting experience last year. Jerry Azumah will be the returner for the whole year. Always look on the brighter side Baggs! is there a trend here??..the sox lost last year not because they wernt good enough but because of jerry manuel.....the bears wernt good enough not because of talent but becasue of shoop and i guess jauron..now both teams have rookie head bosses that will most assurdly make rookie mistakes that will cost games...of course they will get blamed too.. neithr team, sox or bears , have the talent to be real contenders...they can sneek up on people every once in a while..might happen this year with one or both of them...but niether team as constructed from front office on down will be a perennial playoff team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 is there a trend here??..the sox lost last year not because they wernt good enough but because of jerry manuel.....the bears wernt good enough not because of talent but becasue of shoop and i guess jauron..now both teams have rookie head bosses that will most assurdly make rookie mistakes that will cost games...of course they will get blamed too.. neithr team, sox or bears , have the talent to be real contenders...they can sneek up on people every once in a while..might happen this year with one or both of them...but niether team as constructed from front office on down will be a perennial playoff team Have you looked at either one of those divisions? There is not a lot of talent in either the White Sox division or the Bears division. Don't just look at the negatives Baggs, there is more to it. I never said it was Jurons fault, I did say it was Shoop's fault. We had enough talent on offense to perform better than we did. That is all I know. Shoop's offense and play calling ability was awful. Juoron's only fault was his loyalty to Shoop. I think I see a trend with certain speculation's of yours, Baggs, and mine. I believe we will constantly bump heads in issues like these. I am always optimistic and will always look for the good in things. You seem to alway be optimistic and look at the negatives first. I think that is just our nature. Nothing wrong with that at all. Every season I have optimism going into things. What is the point of the season if I am already planning on losing? To me that would be a awful way of going into it. Maybe it is easier on you to expect less and perhaps recieve more. I can understand that, being pleasantly suprised is nice. However, it is always easier to take the negative stance because you will be right more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 Do I believe that Jones broke his hand? or do I believe he broke his hand while slamming down the phone? Does it really matter how he broke it? It is still a freakish injury, plus he also missed part of a season with pnemounia. I think we all believe he broke the hand. But, the circumstances surrounding that broken hand, are highly questionable. I've heard reports that it was broken on a window/door at a nightclub. Are you arguing that TJ's ability to have freak injuries and illnesses should be considered an asset? I would say he's oft injured and Jones is a better fit for this offense than Train. I really don't know how you can dispute that. If Train was really that great the Bears would have received an offer from another team willing to trade at least a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I doubt they have received such an offer as Train is still here. That's just stupid right there.... when I saw that all the Niners only recieved a 2nd round pick, from a playoff team, for TO, the market had been set. TO is without question one of the top few WR's in the game, and he only garnered his team a late second round pick... To think that the A-train, as talented as he is, would garner simillar compensation for the Bears is asinine. I really don't think you believe that Train is a break away threat whenever he touches the ball. He broke a 20+ yard run 1 in every 35 times he touched the ball last year. That is more times in less carries then Priest Holmes. He may not have the best "speed",(but that's a stat), but he has proven to be a difficult guy to bring down. That makes him a break away threat, that's a proven fact. How many backs are in this league? There were 146 back who carried the ball at least one time last season. Here is a list of the backs who were better "break away" threats than the train last season. Jamal Lewis Ahman Green Duece McCallister Clinton Portis Ladanian Tomlinson Stephen Davis Warrick Dunn Brian Westbrook That's 8 of 146, I'd say that puts the Train as a brak away threat. Even if you say there is only 32 team so there is only 32 "starting" backs, that would mean that the train was better than 24 other starters. Some names that didn't make the cut. Ricky Williams Edgerin James Priest Holmes Marshall Faulk Stats are very deceiving at times, this is one of those cases. Do you believe TJ is a bigger threat to break off big chunks of yardage because he is faster?? Because that is a stat. He also has PROVED, in those 4 years of service, that he, IN FACT, doesn't. Last season he broke away twice in a career high 138 carries. He also put the ball on the carpet 4 times in those 138 carries compared to Train's just one in 244 carries. On his carrer the Train fumbles once every 105 carries. Over that same period, TJ has fumbled 2 more times than the Train, on half the carries, or 1 in every 43 carries. Over his entire carrer, the ratio is even worse, 1 in every 38 carries. So TJ, who's break away abilty has yielded him 1 20+yd. carry in every 83 touches, fumbling at a 1 in every 43 carries, is half as likely to actually break a big run as the Train, while simultaneosly putting the ball in the opponets paws more than twice as often is obviously a better fit for our offense. Which apparently wont be on the field much. There is a reason that TJ hasn't recieved a bulk of the carries anywhere he's been. You can say he has been on losing teams, but maybe he is actually the reason for the losing. I'm sorry I clutter up this response with more useless stats that you will no doubt claim as decieving again. But they are facts, and hard to dispute. I'll take a proven back, who doesn't turn it over, can break big runs, and has proven he can handle the workload that comes with an NFL season, over one who's done none of those things, even if he is 9 months younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Are you arguing that TJ's ability to have freak injuries and illnesses should be considered an asset? Now how and where did I ever give you the opinion that this was an asset? My point was he never had the opportunity to prove himself, be it of his own foolishness, the coaching staff, or illness. That is all. Why read into something? This was the silliest comment of the whole argument yet. That's just stupid right there.... when I saw that all the Niners only recieved a 2nd round pick, from a playoff team, for TO, the market had been set. TO is without question one of the top few WR's in the game, and he only garnered his team a late second round pick... To think that the A-train, as talented as he is, would garner simillar compensation for the Bears is asinine. Really? Hmm, I thought the 49ers stated that they wanted to get rid of him no matter what. That really brings the value down. They had no choice to get rid of him. Not only was he an ass and a distraction to the team, but the 49ers have salary cap issues and couldn't afford to have him on the team. This is not the case with the Bears. The Bears have a starting RB of the last 3 seasons, that according to you is one of the top breakaway backs in the league. Because only 8 other backs are better than he. This is not worth at least a 2nd or 3rd round pick? Wierd! The Bears do not have to trade him. He is not making that much. The Bears are far under the cap. Train has not demanded a trade. Train has not been an ass or a distraction to the team. The Bears did not say that they needed to get rid of him within 72 hours, like the 49ers did with owens. If he really is one of the top breakaway backs in this league then trust me he is worth at least a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Piss poor example if you ask me. Clinton Portis was worth Champ Bailey (a proven pro bowl DB) AND a 2nd round pick. If Train really is one of the best break away backs in the league, is a proven back, doesn't turn it over, and has proven he can handle the workload that comes with an NFL season then he is worth at least a 2nd or 3rd round pick. To me he is not. To me he is vanila, bland, average, and a mediocre everyday back, but I am just going by your examples and that would lead me to the conclusion that he is worth at least a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Obviously stats are not deceiving, right? Listen, we obviously don't agree and we will never agree on this issue. To me Thomas Jones is the perfect fit for this offense, Train is not. Train is better suited for an offense that likes the bruising running game. Not an offense that is tailored for a back that runs outside and recieves the ball a lot. Those just aren't Train's best assets. Those are Jones' best assets. You can comment back if you want, but I am agreeing to disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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