Guest wsc425 Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 25-man Roster Pitchers B/T Ht Wt DOB 57 Antonio Alfonseca R/R 6-5 250 04/16/72 53 Francis Beltran R/R 6-5 220 11/29/79 48 Joe Borowski R/R 6-2 240 05/04/71 30 Matt Clement R/R 6-3 195 08/12/74 51 Juan Cruz R/R 6-2 165 10/15/78 -- Shawn Estes R/L 6-2 200 02/18/73 44 Kyle Farnsworth R/R 6-4 235 04/14/76 -- Mark Guthrie R/L 6-4 215 09/22/65 22 Mark Prior R/R 6-5 225 09/07/80 -- Mike Remlinger L/L 6-1 210 03/23/66 -- Dave Veres R/R 6-2 220 10/19/66 34 Kerry Wood R/R 6-5 230 06/16/77 Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB -- Paul Bako L/R 6-2 205 06/20/72 -- Damian Miller R/R 6-3 220 10/13/69 Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB 28 Mark Bellhorn S/R 6-1 205 08/23/74 19 Hee Seop Choi L/L 6-5 240 03/16/79 8 Alex Gonzalez R/R 6-0 200 04/08/73 -- Mark Grudzielanek R/R 6-1 185 06/30/70 17 Bobby Hill S/R 5-10 180 04/03/78 -- Eric Karros R/R 6-4 225 11/04/67 15 Kevin Orie R/R 6-4 225 09/01/72 - David Kelton R/R 6-3 205 12/17/79 Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB 18 Moises Alou R/R 6-3 220 07/03/66 -- Nic Jackson L/R 6-3 205 09/25/79 -- Troy O'Leary L/L 6-0 200 08/04/69 20 Corey Patterson L/R 5-9 175 08/13/79 21 Sammy Sosa R/R 6-0 220 11/12/68 In other words... Cubs Lineup: Starting Pitchers: Kerry Wood Mark Prior Matt Clement Shawn Estes Juan Cruz Relief Core: David Veres, Mike Remlinger, Antonio Alfonseca, Kyle Farnsworth, Francis Beltran, Mark Guthrie, Joe Borowski. 1b-Hee Seop Choi, Eric Karros 2b-Mark Grudzilanek, Bobby Hill ss-Alex Gonzalez, Mark Bellhorn 3b-David Kelton, Kevin Orie lf-Moises Alou, Troy O'Leary Nic, Jackson cf-Corey Patterson, Troy O'Leary, Nic Jackson rf-Sam "suck" Sosa, Troy O'Leary, Nic Jackson c-Daimian Miller, Paul Bako (Cough) Suck!!! Chip Carey is a flamer!!! (Opening music to Sox games) And now YOUR 2003 CHICAGO WHITE SOX!!! Starting Pitchers Bartolo Colon Mark Buehrle Jon Garland Dan Wright Gil Heredia/Jon Rauch/Esteban Loaiza Bullpen: Gary Glover, Billy Koch, Tom "Flash" Gordon, Rick White, Kelly Wunsch, Damaso Marte 1b-Paul Konerko Graffanino 2b-D'Angelo Jimenez Graffanino ss-Jose Valentin Graffanino 3b-Joe Crede Graffanino lf-Carlos Lee Rios cf-Aaron Rowand Rios rf-Magglio Ordonez Rios c-Miguel Olivo Alomar, jr. dh-Frank Thomas Konerko The comparison: Starting Pitchers Wood/Colon-Colon Prior/Buehrle-Buehrle Clement/Garland-Clement Estes/Wright-Estes Cruz/Rauch,Heredia,or Loazia-Sox Advantage Rolaids Relief Alfonseca/Koch-Koch Remlinger/Gordon-Tie-Remlinger with his Veteran, 37 year old arm, is likely to be a bust. Borowski/Wunsch-Wunsch Veres/Glover-Glover Borowski/White-White Guthrie/Marte-Marte Beltran/none-none would beat that piece of crap 1b-Choi, Karros/Konerko, Graffanino-Sox 2b-Grudzy, Hill/ Jimenez, Graffanino-Cubs/Sox ss-Gonzalez/Val-Sox 3b-Bellhorn/Crede-Sox c-Miller/Olivo-Cubs lf-Alou/Lee-Tie, they both suck cf-Patterson/Rowand-Cubs rf-"suck"/Ordonez-Sox Thomas kicks ass over any cubs pitcher-Sox Bench-Tie Score/17-10, Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I prefer to compare Sox fans and Cub fans. I'll admit that for now, they outnumber us. I chalk it up to poor breeding habits combined with questionable media techniques. But for as long as I can remember, Cub fans are stupid. I am probably the oldest person on soxnet, so I go back a looooong ways. For generations now, if a Cubbie is at bat with men on and he pops up to short, the crowd cheers and then they groan in unison as the enemy shortstop settles under the pop up and catches it. As if they were robbed. If they are not stupid, then they don't understand baseball, which makes them stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 hey how bout amking 2 columns side by side with another one for a winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I prefer to compare Sox fans and Cub fans. I'll admit that for now, they outnumber us. I chalk it up to poor breeding habits combined with questionable media techniques. But for as long as I can remember, Cub fans are stupid. I am probably the oldest person on soxnet, so I go back a looooong ways. For generations now, if a Cubbie is at bat with men on and he pops up to short, the crowd cheers and then they groan in unison as the enemy shortstop settles under the pop up and catches it. As if they were robbed. If they are not stupid, then they don't understand baseball, which makes them stupid. jimbo, on the age, i thought it was me. but fans of the sox are more loyal, more agressive, more up-to-date on the happenings of the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I agree. And Cub fans are still stupid. I think it's genetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Sox fans are definately more loyal and there are fewer of them, but I love having a ton of diehards. One thing I notice about many Cub fans is they go for the show; thats not all of them, but most of them. A homer is great to them, even if they lose the game, at least they saw Sammy homer. Well, thats probably why Sammy is always swinging for the stinking fences, instead of just looking for one run if the team needs a sac fly, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Lee is better than Alou anyday. Thats a Sox advantage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I wish two things when it comes to the Cubs... I hope they suck I hope we beat the s*** out of them in the crosstown series If those two things happen, I'm happy with the performance of the Cubs...and usually, those two things happen. The team I am worried about how we stack up against is Minnesota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 couldn't agree with you more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Lee is better than Alou anyday. Thats a Sox advantage... Disagree; Alou has proven he can put up huge numbers, health is the only Xfactor with him. With Carlos, he's yet to prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I think both teams have approximately the same number of diehard fans, but the Cub diehards get kinda swallowed up by the "girls, beers and cellphones" crowd. Here's the difference, as I see it: The Sox don't have the casual fan who goes to the ballpark for "the event". New Comiskey ( Cellphone Field ) is NOT a draw for the casual fan, and Wrigley is. Like it or not, the Clark Street area is bustling with things to do post-game, and Bridgeport is not. Thus, the casual "event fan" will choose Wrigley. They then tell their equally vapid friends about the cool time they had, and the friend then wants to be part of the fun. It gives the Cubs a bad name, although they do cater to that clientele, so they deserve the bad name to some degree. There ARE many Cub fans who absolutely HATE the Cubs' indifference to really competing, and the way the Cubs spend their money stupidly ( Todd Hundley, anyone? ANYONE??? ). As far as being a genetic thing, I think that who you root for is definitely passed down from family, so it would be an environment thing. Some people stay with the team their parents watched, but some break away and form their own allegiances. If the Sox win consistently for a few years, like they did in the early 90's, they will draw the casual fan like they did in the early 90s. This was once considered a "Sox town", let's not forget. That changed around 1984, and the current ownership had a LOT to do with the change ( charging for subscription TV, chasing Harry Caray away, creating the ghastly Ribbie and Roobarb, etc. ). It will be difficult to get it back, but it can be done. IF the Sox win enough, and IF they can reconfigure the Salad Bowl to look more like a traditional ballpark, and IF the Sox can help change the stereotype of the neighborhood ( a tough task, to be sure - how do you change a perception like that? ), then US Cellular Field could again become the place to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 As far as the teams go, here's who I'd take for the all-Chicago team: LF - Alou this year, but ONLY this year CF - this is tough - both have potential, I'll take Borchard for now RF - Sosa - like him or not, he puts up BIG numbers 3B - Crede, it's not even close SS - Gonzalez - it's biased because I just don't like Mr. Mustache 2B - Hill - I think Jiminez is okay, but I think Hill will break out this year 1B - Konerko - not even close over Hee Flops Choi C - there are no catchers in Chicago, but I'll take Miller because I have to take someone DH - Thomas Starters Colon Buerhle Wood Prior Clement Closer Koch I'm not going to do bench or middle relief Gotta say, that's a great team. I wish there was someplace for Ordonez, and I almost put him at DH, but I'd probably put him in left field if I really had all these guys to choose from. I just think Alou has something to prove this year, and so does Thomas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 As far as the teams go, here's who I'd take for the all-Chicago team: LF - Alou this year, but ONLY this year CF - this is tough - both have potential, I'll take Borchard for now RF - Sosa - like him or not, he puts up BIG numbers 3B - Crede, it's not even close SS - Gonzalez - it's biased because I just don't like Mr. Mustache 2B - Hill - I think Jiminez is okay, but I think Hill will break out this year 1B - Konerko - not even close over Hee Flops Choi C - there are no catchers in Chicago, but I'll take Miller because I have to take someone DH - Thomas Starters Colon Buerhle Wood Prior Clement Closer Koch I'm not going to do bench or middle relief Gotta say, that's a great team. I wish there was someplace for Ordonez, and I almost put him at DH, but I'd probably put him in left field if I really had all these guys to choose from. I just think Alou has something to prove this year, and so does Thomas. Here's mine........ Lee - LF} Based on last years performance..... Lee is getting better.... alou getting worse. Patterson - CF} Patterson is going to be a very good player..... Willie Harris is our CF. Sosa - RF} Maggs is the man..... but cant put up the power numbers that Sammy does. Crede - 3b} Mark Bellhorn is a defensive liabilty who strikes out Alot...... while crede is the second coming of Robin Ventura Valentin - SS} Valentin has 30HR 80RBI capabilites...... with a bad glove..... Gonzo has...... 15HR 40RBI 120K's capabilities..... with a bad glove.... I'll take manos Jimenez - 2B} D'angelo Jimenez is the most underrated player on the sox roster.... this guy could be a all-star some day. People forget that he was once very highly rated in the NYY system. Konerko - 1B} Konerko is putting together quite a career for himself....... while Choi batted .180 in his ML debut Miller - C} All-star last year..... Olivo is a rookie..... adv miller Rotation Prior} STUD...... cubs are lucky that the twins couldn't give him the money Colon} Bartolo is quite a presence on the mound Buehrle} 20 win seasons seems like they are going to be annually Wood} Kid K not much liked around these parts.... but he is finally learning how to sling the rock Clement} Flithy......FILTHY slider....... at this point better than Jon garland Closer Koch} 100 MPH FASTBALL........ 40 save seasons.....6-Fingers..... 9 blown saves last year Set-up man Marte} Remlinger is 37 and hasn't pitched at Wrigley for a full season...... while Marte dominated all last year outta the comiskey pen.....whoops U.S. Cellular pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 As far as the teams go, here's who I'd take for the all-Chicago team: LF - Alou this year, but ONLY this year CF - this is tough - both have potential, I'll take Borchard for now RF - Sosa - like him or not, he puts up BIG numbers 3B - Crede, it's not even close SS - Gonzalez - it's biased because I just don't like Mr. Mustache 2B - Hill - I think Jiminez is okay, but I think Hill will break out this year 1B - Konerko - not even close over Hee Flops Choi C - there are no catchers in Chicago, but I'll take Miller because I have to take someone DH - Thomas Starters Colon Buerhle Wood Prior Clement Closer Koch I'm not going to do bench or middle relief Gotta say, that's a great team. I wish there was someplace for Ordonez, and I almost put him at DH, but I'd probably put him in left field if I really had all these guys to choose from. I just think Alou has something to prove this year, and so does Thomas. Here's mine........ Lee - LF} Based on last years performance..... Lee is getting better.... alou getting worse. Patterson - CF} Patterson is going to be a very good player..... Willie Harris is our CF. Sosa - RF} Maggs is the man..... but cant put up the power numbers that Sammy does. Crede - 3b} Mark Bellhorn is a defensive liabilty who strikes out Alot...... while crede is the second coming of Robin Ventura Valentin - SS} Valentin has 30HR 80RBI capabilites...... with a bad glove..... Gonzo has...... 15HR 40RBI 120K's capabilities..... with a bad glove.... I'll take manos Jimenez - 2B} D'angelo Jimenez is the most underrated player on the sox roster.... this guy could be a all-star some day. People forget that he was once very highly rated in the NYY system. Konerko - 1B} Konerko is putting together quite a career for himself....... while Choi batted .180 in his ML debut Miller - C} All-star last year..... Olivo is a rookie..... adv miller Rotation Prior} STUD...... cubs are lucky that the twins couldn't give him the money Colon} Bartolo is quite a presence on the mound Buehrle} 20 win seasons seems like they are going to be annually Wood} Kid K not much liked around these parts.... but he is finally learning how to sling the rock Clement} Flithy......FILTHY slider....... at this point better than Jon garland Closer Koch} 100 MPH FASTBALL........ 40 save seasons.....6-Fingers..... 9 blown saves last year Set-up man Marte} Remlinger is 37 and hasn't pitched at Wrigley for a full season...... while Marte dominated all last year outta the comiskey pen.....whoops U.S. Cellular pen. yeah that is more like it on the comparsion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 The Yankees hype their own prospects mega-style so they can make some poor sucker think that when they get one in a trade, they're getting some great talent; when in reality, they got s***. Remember Ricky Ledee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I agree. And Cub fans are still stupid. I think it's genetic. yea they all still think thats its the 1930s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 fits perfectly with the "thick headed" root beer or wutever commercials, dont ya think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I don't know how anyone here can take Sosa over Maggs, yes we all know sosa will hit more homeruns, because maggs doesnt take steroids, but Maggs always has a better average, less strikeouts, better defense, better baserunning, and this year he had more rbi's which i think is from now on going to be a trend. DEFINETLY MAGGS OVER SOSA!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I tend to agree with you Rowand, but I think Sammy is an amazing player as well. I'd put Sammy in left and Maggs in right and forget about Lee and Alou. In center there is no question in my mind that Borchard is better then Patterson. I think Patterson will be a bust, but he could prove me wrong. He has some of the worse plate discipline I've ever seen and has a very long swing to go with it. I'm starting to think Borchard may just make the team out Spring Training; if not then, then give him one month or two in Charlotte and he'll be up depending. This is the first time I've ever thought about having him up early and if Rowand is hurt, it could be the best way, cause I think Borchard will develop even at the major league level. I also think Rogers article convinced me a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkDJ Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I tend to agree with you Rowand, but I think Sammy is an amazing player as well. I'd put Sammy in left and Maggs in right and forget about Lee and Alou. In center there is no question in my mind that Borchard is better then Patterson. I think Patterson will be a bust, but he could prove me wrong. He has some of the worse plate discipline I've ever seen and has a very long swing to go with it. I'm starting to think Borchard may just make the team out Spring Training; if not then, then give him one month or two in Charlotte and he'll be up depending. This is the first time I've ever thought about having him up early and if Rowand is hurt, it could be the best way, cause I think Borchard will develop even at the major league level. I also think Rogers article convinced me a bit. Well Borchard won't make the team out of spring training. KW already said a couple times at SoxFest that barring injury he will start at AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I guess I figured Manuel and stats had a voice in whether Borchard is up or down....but I guess not. KW acts like God sometimes....saying this and that WILL happen....how the hell does he know that Harris won't get hurt or he hits about .230 in ST or that Rowand will be ready....if Harris and Rowand obviously aren't ready, then who are we going to put in CF, Josh Paul? Armando Rios? Please....I'd be looking for Borchard to take CF if either of the above occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkDJ Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I guess I figured Manuel and stats had a voice in whether Borchard is up or down....but I guess not. KW acts like God sometimes....saying this and that WILL happen....how the hell does he know that Harris won't get hurt or he hits about .230 in ST or that Rowand will be ready....if Harris and Rowand obviously aren't ready, then who are we going to put in CF, Josh Paul? Armando Rios? Please....I'd be looking for Borchard to take CF if either of the above occurred. ...Well that is why he said barring injury. He means with the current team we don't have a place for him and I tend to agree. He hasn't even played much minor league ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I know he hasn't played much minor league ball....but it doesn't mean he can't hit major league pitching....I think he'd do fine, and that all he'd need to do is play some winterball and just work on his mechanics and stuff there....he's be able to adjust up here. I see two problems with banking on Harris or Rowand.....Rowand may not be ready, and Harris sucks. I think that's big enough problems...in my mind anyways. Borchard should make the team out of ST....I hope he does. Assuming Rowand isn't ready, I would rather have Borchard over Harris....we need more team speed, but I think we need left-handed power more than we need speed. I admit that I did miss the barring injury part....my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkDJ Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Bringing Borchard up just to sit on the bench and pich hit is a bad idea. Maybe he can hit major league pitching but he still hasn't played very much in the minors. Harris may not be a great hitter but he can be valuable off the bench. Rowand claims he is 85-90% healthy so I think he'll be ready to go. Plus with Rios and Daubach we have 2 more good bench outfielders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 I don't know how anyone here can take Sosa over Maggs, yes we all know sosa will hit more homeruns, because maggs doesnt take steroids, but Maggs always has a better average, less strikeouts, better defense, better baserunning, and this year he had more rbi's which i think is from now on going to be a trend. DEFINETLY MAGGS OVER SOSA!!!!!! I agree with you... Sosa is a SLUGGER. Ordonez is a BASEBALL PLAYER. There is a big difference in the two. I'd take Sosa over Maggs on only one day a year... The Home Run Derby. Otherwise, being that they are supposed to play basebal, I'll take Maggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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