Inflaming the right and the left

[Texsox]

IIRC the military was in a state of low morale during the Clinton years because Billy wasn't a military man, his personal short falls, etc. Now we have Bush, and if reports are to believed, suicide and alchoholism have increased with our military men and women.

 

Could it be the President really doesn't have much effect on this?

Liberal media making s*** up?

Too high expectations with W?

No WMD?

Not enough people to shoot?

Vast right wing conspiracy?

 

I tend to believe the President does not have as much impact on our soldiers as the vast right wing conspiracy and the liberal media would have us believe.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

IIRC the military was in a state of low morale during the Clinton years because Billy wasn't a military man, his personal short falls, etc. Now we have Bush, and if reports are to believed, suicide and alchoholism have increased with our military men and women.

 

Could it be the President really doesn't have much effect on this?

Liberal media making s*** up?

Too high expectations with W?

No WMD?

Not enough people to shoot?

Vast right wing conspiracy?

 

I tend to believe the President does not have as much impact on our soldiers as the vast right wing conspiracy and the liberal media would have us believe.

You make that statement not knowing anything about what you're talking about.

 

The military in the 90's had poor morale for a variety of reasons.

 

1. The massive drawdown of the Clinton years forced a great many senior officers and enlisted troops out of the service.

 

2. Adequate funds were not forthcoming from Washington so there were parts shortages, supply problems and construction of new facilities was postponed or canceled outright.

 

3. Military pay lagged the private sector by as much as 15-20% during the Clinton years and if anyone tells me that there is a career field where one works harder than soldiers I'll laugh at you.

 

4. Activist Clinton administration officials placed onerous environmental restrictions on training like cordoning off massive tracts of military training areas for such high national priorities as the red-cockaded woodpecker and turtles native to certain areas of the southwest, among others.

 

 

 

 

You say suicide and alcoholism are up in the Military? Numerous studies have shown that suicide rates among the Military are right on par with the civilian sector and the same goes for alcoholism. I think that with all that the military is going through these days for that to be true is most remarkable and is a tribute to commanders and NCO's taking care of their people and looking out for their welfare.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

You make that statement not knowing anything about what you're talking about.

 

The military in the 90's had poor morale for a variety of reasons.

 

1.  The massive drawdown of the Clinton years forced a great many senior officers and enlisted troops out of the service.

 

2.  Adequate funds were not forthcoming from Washington so there were parts shortages, supply problems and construction of new facilities was postponed or canceled outright.

 

3.  Military pay lagged the private sector by as much as 15-20% during the Clinton years and if anyone tells me that there is a career field where one works harder than soldiers I'll laugh at you.

 

4.  Activist Clinton administration officials placed onerous environmental restrictions on training like cordoning off massive tracts of military training areas for such high national priorities as the red-cockaded woodpecker and turtles native to certain areas of the southwest, among others.

 

 

 

 

You say suicide and alcoholism are up in the Military?  Numerous studies have shown that suicide rates among the Military are right on par with the civilian sector and the same goes for alcoholism.  I think that with all that the military is going through these days for that to be true is most remarkable and is a tribute to commanders and NCO's taking care of their people and looking out for their welfare.

Supply shortages like the lack of basic body armor being provided to the troops in Iraq? I know that because before he died, a Marine in my hometown had to have his parents buy and ship him body armor.

 

Or I'm sure you mean the veterans' benefits cuts that Bush signed for. Or maybe you're referencing how Bush has opposed full medical benefits for National Guardsmen and reservists, despite sending them to his oil war.

 

Or maybe you're referencing how the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are going to be BANKRUPT by October because Bush doesn't want to ask Congress for more money until after the election (Jan/Feb).

 

Nuke, I didn't know that giggling lying thieving murderers had apologists.

[Texsox]

Nuke,

I asked questions, didn't make a statement. We had a thread a few days ago that listed alchoholics at the highest rate in two decades and even top Pentagon officials have publically commented that the suicide rate in Iraq is the highest rate of all time.

 

But to be fair Nuke, I won't make any comments about military issues if you will not make any on civilian.

 

Nuke note this is a Pentagon Survey

By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nearly one in five members of the U.S. armed forces is a heavy drinker, according to a Pentagon survey released on Monday that showed a growing alcohol problem in the American military.

 

The survey, conducted in the fall of 2002, showed a rise in heavy drinking compared to the most recent similar survey in 1998 as well as increases in the use of illicit drugs and cigarette smoking -- the first such gains in two decades.

 

The survey was based on responses by about 12,500 members of the armed services.

 

Heavy drinking was most acute among men and younger service members, officials said. The survey's findings were announced two weeks after Pentagon officials said many of the cases under investigation of sexual assaults by men in the military against their female comrades may be linked to alcohol abuse.

 

The survey found that 18.1 percent of respondents said they engaged in heavy drinking, defined as consuming at least five alcoholic drinks at one time at least once a week, compared to 15.4 percent in the 1998 study. It found that 19.4 percent of men in the military and 5.3 percent of women were classified as heavy drinkers.

 

"It's an individual behavior, obviously," William Winkenwerder, assistant secretary of defense for health affairs, told a Pentagon briefing.

 

"Unlike the issue of illegal drug abuse, we can't police people and their behaviors, and force them not to drink heavily or to binge drink," Winkenwerder added.

 

Winkenwerder said the Pentagon leadership had "a high-level of awareness" of the need to send a message that heavy drinking "can impact upon you adversely in terms of your family, your personal life, your productivity, your career."

 

Heavy drinking was associated with a drop in productivity and an increase in stress and symptoms of depression, the survey found.

 

YOUNG DRINKERS

 

Robert Bray, who directed the survey, said it found that 27.3 percent of U.S. service members ages 18-25 were heavy drinkers, compared to 15.3 percent of the general U.S. population in the same age group. Bray said for ages 26 and above, the percentage of heavy drinkers in the military was only marginally higher than the general population.

 

The survey found that 41.8 percent of military personnel admitted to consuming five alcoholic drinks at one occasion at least once in the previous month, compared to 16.6 for the general population.

 

The Marines Corps had the highest rate of drinking among any of the military services, with the Air Force the lowest.

 

The survey found that 3.4 percent of respondents admitted to using an illicit drug, such as marijuana or cocaine, in the past month and 6.9 percent in the past year. The 1998 survey found that 2.7 percent had used drugs in the previous month and 6.0 percent in the previous year.

 

This was the time an increase was found in illicit drug use since the military began a series of period health surveys in 1980 but the Pentagon downplayed the rise as not statistically significant.

 

For the first time since the 1982 survey, cigarette smoking increased in the military, with 33.8 percent saying they had smoked in the past month. That compared to 29.9 percent in 1998.

 

Nope I guess I don't know anything if I believe the Pentagon

[Texsox]

Suicides of U.S. Troops Rising in Iraq - Pentagon

 

 

Email this story

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jan 14, 2:53 PM (ET)

 

By Charles Aldinger

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - At least 21 U.S. troops have committed suicide in Iraq, a growing toll that represents one in seven of American "non-hostile" deaths since the war began last March, the Pentagon's top health official said on Wednesday.

 

"Fighting this kind of war is clearly going to be stressful for some people," Assistant Defense Secretary for Health Affairs Dr. William Winkenwerder told reporters in an interview.

 

"There have been about 21 confirmed suicides during the past year associated with Operation Iraqi Freedom," Winkenwerder said, adding that 18 were Army troops and three others were in the Navy and Marine Corps.

 

The suicide toll is probably higher than 21, he added, because some "pending" non-hostile deaths are being investigated.

 

A total of 496 U.S. troops have been killed since the war began last March, 343 of them in combat and 153 in non-hostile incidents ranging from accidents to suicide, the Pentagon said.

 

The 21 suicides represent nearly 14 percent of non-hostile deaths reported by the Pentagon, an increase over the proportion of 11 percent as of three months ago when the suicide number totaled 13.

 

BATTLE STRESS

 

Winkenwerder said the military was concerned over the suicides and was moving to deal with "battle stress" and other emotional problems triggered by armed conflict.

 

He did not provide any suicide rates for past U.S. conflicts but suggested that problems such as the domestic killings involving soldiers who returned to their base in North Carolina from Afghanistan in 2002 had prompted the Army to be more aware of stress.

 

Authorities say four soldiers at Fort Bragg killed their wives in June and July of 2002. Three of the cases involved Special Operations soldiers returning from Afghanistan. Two of the soldiers committed suicide and the other two were charged with murder. A fifth case involved a Special Forces major who was killed, with his wife charged with murder.

 

A November 2002 Army report concluded that the stress put on military families by frequent separations as the soldiers trained and fought may have contributed to the killings.

 

The military's responses to stress problems now include toll-free telephone numbers for troops to call for help as well as an increased number of military psychiatric specialists in Iraq to deal with problems before they become critical.

 

"Are those individuals who need (stress) support getting it? Are they being identified?," Winkenwerder asked. "We believe 'yes."'

 

"We don't see any trend there that tells us that there's more we might be doing," Winkenwerder said, noting that between 300 and 400 troops had been evacuated from Iraq for stress-related problems.

 

The U.S. military strength in Iraq currently stands at about 123,000.

 

Winkenwerder also said emergency military medical teams stationed in Iraq, combined with new body armor and other protective devices, had resulted in a sharply lower death rate among wounded soldiers compared to past wars.

 

In addition to the death toll, more than 2,400 troops have been wounded in Iraq since the war began.

 

Nuke, that is what is being reported here.

[Texsox]

Army probes soldier suicides

By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY

Alarmed by the number of suicides among soldiers in Iraq, the Army has asked a team of doctors to determine whether the stress of combat and long deployments is contributing to the deaths.

"The number of suicides has caused the Army to be concerned," said Lt. Col. Elspeth Cameron Ritchie, a psychiatrist at the Army's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md. Ritchie is helping to investigate the suicides in Iraq. "Is there something different going on in Iraq that we really need to pay attention to?" (Related story: Soldier's suicide shocks Pa. town)

 

In the past seven months, at least 11 soldiers and three Marines have committed suicide in Iraq, military officials say. That is an annual rate of 17 per 100,000. The Navy also is investigating one possible suicide. And about a dozen other Army deaths are under investigation and could include suicides.

 

The numbers suggest the rate in Iraq is above normal. Last year, the military services reported 8 to 9 suicides per 100,000 people. The Army rate is usually higher, 10 to 13 per 100,000. That mirrors the rate for the same age group in the general population.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Tex, don't forget the amount of rapes being reported.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/cda/article/prin...1913069,00.html

[Soxy]

Tex, don't forget the amount of rapes being reported.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/cda/article/prin...1913069,00.html

A similiar, more weighty and more implicating article was published in the NY Times on February 26, 2004. Personally, I am mostly upset by the government handling of the sexual assault cases. Of course, handling of most sexual assault cases that I have been seen are nothing more than a trial of the victim mixed in with some beauracracy. I don't anticipate this being any different, except now we'll get to hear, Those women shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

I have nothing against the military--I respect all they do to keep me safe--but I am bothered by the above case because it appears the military isn't affording the proper care to keep all of their members safe.

[Texsox]

This is where support our Troops always gets ugly. In some circles it means cheering no matter wat they do. Do not say anything negative.

 

I support our Troops by making damn certain before we put one soldier in harms it is absolutely necessary. No vanity wars. No tail waging the dog. No macho b.s.

 

I support our Troop by letting my congressman know if we are placing US soldiers in harms way, they damn well better have the best technology and best facilities available. I do not want a US soldier running out of fod, clothing, shelter, or ammo. Especially ammo.

 

I support our Troops by writing my congressman and telling them I want unmanned drones fighting our wars.

 

I support the Troops by questioning why so many soldiers are reporting being raped, why they are drinking more, and why they are comitting suicide more. I do not trust the government to do the right thing without the citizens staying vigilant.

 

And finally Nuke, you speak of "activist" Clinton admins. I guess you would prefer inactivity in your officials. Interesting the GOP tosses names at people like activists for judges, etc. who they do not agree with. I am certain they have had dozens of focus groups to determine the publics preceptions of that word.

 

So I give you a short lists of activists to consider:

The framers and signers of the Declaration of Independance.

The writters of our Constitustion, the one you swore to uphold.

 

So next time you enjoy a beer, thank the activists who repealed Prohibition.

Next time your girlfriend votes, thank an activist.

Anyone in a mixed racial marriage, thank an activist.

When you see equal opportunity, thank an activist

When you have clean air to breath, thank an activist

When you go to a national park, thank an activist

When you have clean water to drink, thank an activist

When you retire and the first social security check arrives, thank an activist

When you realize no one you know has polio, thank an activist

 

I could go on, but you get the point.

[mreye]

I think Miltary guys aren't that smart and are just now getting around to realizing it's fun to drink!