Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Column: White Sox Face Line Up Woes By Rob Knowles Written: Febuary 1, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okgoh Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 A dominating whatever-handed piture could "mow through" the line-up. Oh OK. Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Column: White Sox Face Line Up Woes By Rob Knowles Written: Febuary 1, 2003 I think quite differently. Not many pitchers are gonna get thru Valentin-Thomas-Ordonez-Konerko-Lee-Crede unscathed. I think Jiminez will also be pretty darn good. Rowand and Olivo might possibly be weak but weve still got a deadly lineup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I think the Sox's have a very solid lineup, i have no doubt they'll end up a top 3 team in runs scored again. Infact, i think this lineup will be better offensively and defensively, then the one we had last season. I still think its the starting pitching we need to worry about, it all falls on Garland, Wright, and Rauch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I think this is the first year in a while where the Sox are going into training camp solid in three of the four aspects of the game (rotation, pen, lineup)! I don't see any problem with our chances of mashing the ball! If anything, the opposition's rotation should be s***ting in their pants when they have to face it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 I definately disagree with this in many regards. Now I do think he's broughten up some big time weaknesses. I'm not comfortable with Manos and his high k totals and low batting average in the two hole; not to mention his low obp. I love Jimenez but still, he's got a lot to prove. Then when it comes to center and catching, its something many others have questioned? One thing I do know is that Olivo is a big time defensive catcher and may be better then many catchers in the majors in his Rookie season, but I can't guarantee anything yet. Still, that aside, Frank, Magglio, Pk, Caballo...thats a very strong middle of the lineup and i don't care what handed they are. Bottom line is, good hitters will hit a pitcher whether they are right or left handed. You don't hit for a high avg, as a rigthy if you can't hit other righties, since the majority of major leaguers are righties. An all lefty lineup can get whipped up on when they face a lefty pitcher, but thats simply because since they started playing ball they don't face as many lefties and aren't used to them. Righties still have an advantage on righties, but when you got good hitters, they'll get it done. Also, Crede won't have too much pressure and if he keeps up what he did last season, it should be sweet. The last player to make a callup late in the season and hit like Crede hit was Magglio and he just kept getting better. I hope Crede can do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harwar Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 The one thing that the heart of the Sox order can do is go-the-other-way.That was one of the things that made their offense so effective in the first part of their last division crown year.I noticed that Konerko pulled the ball much more last year after the allstar game.Hes' much more effective using the whole field.Also,i think Crede will not pull the ball as much this seasom.I fully expect the Sox to score more runs than anyone else in the american league.I also believe that this REALLY is our year to go to the World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Jason, if Thomas is hitting, Jose will see fastballs and kill them. That's why he was good in 2000, and bad in 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I will be very excited about this year if one thing happens....we get Carlos Beltran. We missed out on getting Cruz....but getting Beltran would increase the production of our lineup by an extraordinary amount. And in all reality, I would give up one of our finer young arms in our system to get him....maybe a Malone, Ginter, and Stewart package...because we'd get excellent production from many of our guys, and this would be a year to remember. Assuming we got Beltran, our lineup would be this... Jimenez - 2B Valentin - SS Thomas - DH Maggs - RF Beltran - CF Konerko - 1B Lee - LF Crede - 3B Olivo - C In that lineup, the only guys you can pitch around or Crede and Olivo....because if you pitch around Jimenez, you face Valentin, who is very good with runenrs on base....you pitch around Valentin, and you face Thomas....pitch around Thomas, you get Maggs...pitch around Maggs, you got Beltran....and it keeps going on until you get to Crede. You can then pitch around Crede to get to Olivo, and if Crede has a little speed at all, Olivo could see some fastballs to keep Crede from stealing. If Olivo hits .260, he could get quite a few RBIs....anyways, assuming one, just one of Jimenez and Olivo produces up to their potential, this lineup could be the best lineup in White Sox history....hell, one of the best in the history of the major leagues. You could be up on this lineup 7-0 in the 3rd inning and be down 10-7 by the 6th...and then the game would be over with our deep and talented bullpen. Hand the ball to Glover/White, hand it to Marte, hand it to Gordon, hand it to Koch....game over. Say Beltran leads off an inning....and he signles. Konerko will then see a hell of a lot of fastballs to keep Beltran from stealing 2nd....and as we all know Konerko is a very good fastball hitter....for oppising pitchers, that is not a good mix....meaning Konerko could drive a double to the gap or even go deep. That is a big reason Konerko could bust out for the year and hit maybe 40 homers. If Thomas produces like he can, Valentin will have a big year, Thomas will have a big year, Maggs will have a big year, Beltran will, Konerko, Lee.....it is like a chain reaction. We could bat through the lineup twice and it wouldn't surprise me. Anyways, that's wishful thinking on my part and a lot of things would have to go our way for something like that to happen....but it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 just because you disagree with someone's point of view doesnt mean it wasnt a good article...this guy back up his points with facts..t herefore its very well written.. leadoff man..he brings up the point that jimenez has only 8 stolen bases in over 700 at bats....thats hardly a ringing endorsement for a leadoff man..and use the injury excuse if you want..but this guy has not proven that he can carry the obp and sb's needed to be a good lead off man...until he does the author is right..this guy is a serious question mark... 2nd in the order...dont neccesarily agree with him here...he brings points about jose slipping the past few years but i think jose will hit much with thomas behind him...but i agree with him that jose is not the same playter in '00...he is 3 years older now..hitting moiddle age..10 -15 sb's max..probably in single digits... for catcher..i think olivo will make the team out of spring training,,b ut how can anyione argue with anything the author said about olivo after that???...he gave him his props for a fine season in AA ball....but olivo has all of 4 major league hits in his career...none of us have seen enough of miguel at this level to know what kind of everyday major league catcher he will be...he might be a great one someday..but what happens if its not this year??? lack of left handed hitting is huge imo...just look back to the '00 post season...lou pinella showed everyone how to beat us...and we basically have the same type line up..when the game gets into the 6th inning or later..bring in the lefty to face numbers 1and 2..then bring in the righty to go through 3 through 9....repeat it one time and you to your closer... the sox never get one at bat with a player have the righty /lefty advantage after the starter departs unless we pinch hit with daubach or rios...thats provided the bullpen has 2 lefties in it...most do..ive been screaming to trade dumbass for a 5th starter and let daubach play LF since we got him...amongst all these righties daubach could bust with a career year for him... plus ,the author doesnt even hit on the fact that rowand might not be ready...and even if he is how can anyone not look at him as a question mark... you can look at the glass half empty or half full..either way , there is enough facts for either side to make their case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 At the Sunday session with KW, et. al., someone brought up Fick's name and was roundly booed - KW was very firm in saying that Fick would never play in a Sox uniforrm, that they give great weight to player's personalities and they would not destroy the clubhouse by bringing in jerks. The way KW described Fick, it made Clayton sound like Mr. Congeniality, and rather made the point that they learned something along the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 At the Sunday session with KW, et. al., someone brought up Fick's name and was roundly booed - KW was very firm in saying that Fick would never play in a Sox uniforrm, that they give great weight to player's personalities and they would not destroy the clubhouse by bringing in jerks. The way KW described Fick, it made Clayton sound like Mr. Congeniality, and rather made the point that they learned something along the way... Well, maybe you were right all along when I brought up his name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Speaking of Jose, does anyone know if Manos will be switch-hitting this year? I remember hearing something about him going to full-time lefty on account of his pretty much sucking from the right side of the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Well, maybe you were right all along when I brought up his name Of course I was right! Interesting too was that KW went on to say (as I heard it) that Cruz was in the Fick category in terms of personality and had no chance to play for the Sox, and KW made reference to bad club house chemistry in 2001 and 2002 as opposed to 2000 and that now personality is factor in considering players, haing learned their lesson, and that the Sox will take a player with slightly lesser talent who would provide better chemistry than a player with slightly better talent that would be a clubhouse cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Well, maybe you were right all along when I brought up his name Of course I was right! Interesting too was that KW went on to say (as I heard it) that Cruz was in the Fick category in terms of personality and had no chance to play for the Sox, and KW made reference to bad club house chemistry in 2001 and 2002 as opposed to 2000 and that now personality is factor in considering players, haing learned their lesson, and that the Sox will take a player with slightly lesser talent who would provide better chemistry than a player with slightly better talent that would be a clubhouse cancer. then what the hell did he sign rios for???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 I think Jose should become a full time left handed hitter. I don't have the stats in front of me, but it seems as though he has never been a good right handed hitter. Plus, I for one have never been huge on righty-lefty matchups. I'm a right handed hitter and have no much more difficulty hitting a right hander then I do a lefthander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 Well, maybe you were right all along when I brought up his name Of course I was right! Interesting too was that KW went on to say (as I heard it) that Cruz was in the Fick category in terms of personality and had no chance to play for the Sox, and KW made reference to bad club house chemistry in 2001 and 2002 as opposed to 2000 and that now personality is factor in considering players, haing learned their lesson, and that the Sox will take a player with slightly lesser talent who would provide better chemistry than a player with slightly better talent that would be a clubhouse cancer. Whose Cruz? Nelson Cruz or Juan Cruz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 I think Jose should become a full time left handed hitter. I don't have the stats in front of me, but it seems as though he has never been a good right handed hitter. Plus, I for one have never been huge on righty-lefty matchups. I'm a right handed hitter and have no much more difficulty hitting a right hander then I do a lefthander. I'd tell him to forget switch hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 i switch hit in high school..my dad had me doing it at 8 years old...he used to play minor league ball so he knew the value of not having to face that running fastball coming right at your head...thats the key for jose should he decide to quit switch hitting...will he bail on a fastball from a lefty???...if he cant handle that pitch then he need to keep on switch hitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Nice column. Very nice. I'd have to say I tend to agree with the column writer and agree with the guy who wants Beltran. I think we should try to STEAL Beltran from the Royals. They are a joke right now. Give them 6 minor league stiffs. Six of em. They need pitching bodies badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I think he was talking about Jose Cruz, Jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempers Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 A little late on this, but whatever. I'm agreeing with most of this article. This lineup may not have holes, but it has a ton of question marks. Jimenez hit .252 last year. Maybe he impressed you in 27 games last year, but a lot of players improve when they switch leagues in the middle of the season since pitchers are less likely to know them. Jimenez hasn't really proved much of anything. Olivo has 7 games experience, his numbers in the minors at the plate weren't even huge to begin with. Huge question there. Centerfield, thats just a flat out hole. Crede, potential has been shown, but anyone who wasn't even completed a full season in the majors is sketchy. Everyone already has penciled Thomas in for .300+ and 30+ homers, but he is another huge question. Maybe he can regain his old form, maybe not. Valentin just gets older, his numbers have gone down for the past 2 seasons. I like Lee, I think he will improve, his batting numbers have been on a nose dive too. Obviously no team has 9 sure things in their lineup, but I think people are getting ahead of themselves when they say this lineup is the most deadly around. I see about 6 or so players I am very unsure of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 5, 2003 Author Share Posted February 5, 2003 A little late on this, but whatever. I'm agreeing with most of this article. This lineup may not have holes, but it has a ton of question marks. Jimenez hit .252 last year. Maybe he impressed you in 27 games last year, but a lot of players improve when they switch leagues in the middle of the season since pitchers are less likely to know them. Jimenez hasn't really proved much of anything. Olivo has 7 games experience, his numbers in the minors at the plate weren't even huge to begin with. Huge question there. Centerfield, thats just a flat out hole. Crede, potential has been shown, but anyone who wasn't even completed a full season in the majors is sketchy. Everyone already has penciled Thomas in for .300+ and 30+ homers, but he is another huge question. Maybe he can regain his old form, maybe not. Valentin just gets older, his numbers have gone down for the past 2 seasons. I like Lee, I think he will improve, his batting numbers have been on a nose dive too. Obviously no team has 9 sure things in their lineup, but I think people are getting ahead of themselves when they say this lineup is the most deadly around. I see about 6 or so players I am very unsure of. Agreed, I tend to think Anaheim has the best lineup in baseball. They have guys that can hit for power, avg, and they all are patient hitters that can draw walks. They also don't k too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Whose Cruz? Nelson Cruz or Juan Cruz? as has been answered and want to verify, Jose Cruz Jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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