RIP: They died in Iraq

[Texsox]

List of all those who have died.

 

[DonkeyKongerko]

I'm curious, what exactly does the rank of Specialist indicate? Is it a technical classification and do they outrank PFCs?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I'm curious, what exactly does the rank of Specialist indicate?  Is it a technical classification and do they outrank PFCs?

In the Army's rank structure Specialist is one of 2 ranks E-4 (Enlisted pay grade 4) PFC is an E-3.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Tomorrow, I helped organize a memorial vigil for the campus. Not only of the military but also for the numerous civilians...many of whom get forgotten in war.

 

**Note** these pages of photos are not for people with weak stomaches

 

http://www.albasrah.net/images/war_crimes/index.htm

 

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_page1.htm

 

I'm not posting those to politicize this debate, just more fully encompass the memorial to the innocent civilians who lost their lives along with the military deaths because a human life is a life is a life.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Tomorrow, I helped organize a memorial vigil for the campus.  Not only of the military but also for the numerous civilians...many of whom get forgotten in war.

 

**Note** these pages of photos are not for people with weak stomaches

 

http://www.albasrah.net/images/war_crimes/index.htm

 

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_page1.htm

 

I'm not posting those to politicize this debate, just more fully encompass the memorial to the innocent civilians who lost their lives along with the military deaths because a human life is a life is a life.

While you're at it why dont you memorialize the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's who were killed by Saddam Hussein from 1979 till 2003? Or maybe document some of the horrible beatings and maimings handed out by his sons during the same period?

[Texsox]

While you're at it why dont you memorialize the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's who were killed by Saddam Hussein from 1979 till 2003?  Or maybe document some of the horrible beatings and maimings handed out by his sons during the same period?

The enormity of this human tradegy may never be known. I wonder how many more people will die before this is over.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

The enormity of this human tradegy may never be known. I wonder how many more people will die before this is over.

Well, thanks to "American Aggression" the killing in that country is almost over.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Well, thanks to "American Aggression" the killing in that country is almost over.

What about Saudi torturing or Cambodian torturing or Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, Ghana, Honduras, India, Jordan, Lebanon, Mexico, Peru, the Philippines or South African torture and murder?

 

Oh wait, the US government sells them the torture devices. Silly me, I forgot.

 

United States companies are exporting millions of dollars worth of equipment known to be used for torture, including selling devices to 12 countries where the US State Department says that the use of torture is "persistent", according to a new report by Amnesty International.

 

In doing so, the administration of US President George W Bush, which approves the sales, is violating the spirit of its own export policy, adds the report that was released on Tuesday. In 2002, US exports of electro-shock weapons and restraints that can be used for torture amounted to US$14.7 million and $4.4 million respectively, adds the 85-page report titled "The Pain Merchants".

 

And Nuke, if we want to get technical about who let Saddam do all those horrible crimes, then why don't you yell at Reagan and Rumsfeld FOR GIVING HIM THE TOXINS AND MONEY AND WEAPONS to commit those crimes and f***ing shake his hand smiling after he did it! The CIA had been in cahoots and open (now admitted) contact with Saddam and the Baathists since the 1960s. We openly supported Saddam and Iraq. In 1982, the Reagan Administration took Iraq off its list of countries alleged to sponsor terrorism, making it eligible to receive high-tech items generally denied to those on the list. Conventional military sales began in December of that year. Representative Samuel Gejdenson, Democrat of Connecticut, chairman of a House subcommittee investigating "United States Exports of Sensitive Technology to Iraq," stated in 1991:

 

"From 1985 to 1990, the United States Government approved 771 licenses for the export to Iraq of $1.5 billion worth of biological agents and high-tech equipment with military application. [Only thirty-nine applications were rejected.] The United States spent virtually an entire decade making sure that Saddam Hussein had almost whatever he wanted. . . . The Administration has never acknowledged that it took this course of action, nor has it explained why it did so. In reviewing documents and press accounts, and interviewing knowledgeable sources, it becomes clear that United States export-control policy was directed by U.S. foreign policy as formulated by the State Department, and it was U.S. foreign policy to assist the regime of Saddam Hussein."

 

Here's a list of all the toxins, chemicals and poisons we gladly sold Saddam in the 1980s and what American companies provided him with them. http://www.progressive.org/0901/anth0498.html

 

Nuke, why don't you tell us about the US war crimes of Gulf War I...you know the 24th Infantry Division and Barry McCaffrey murdering Iraqis 2 days after the cease fire was signed. The "highways of death" are the two Kuwaiti roadways, littered with remains of 2,000 mangled Iraqi military vehicles, and the charred and dismembered bodies of tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers, who were withdrawing from Kuwait on February 26th and 27th 1991 in compliance with UN resolutions. U.S. planes trapped the long convoys by disabling vehicles in the front, and at the rear, and then pounded the resulting traffic jams for hours. "It was like shooting fish in a barrel," said one U.S. pilot . . . On the inland highway to Basra is mile after mile of burned, smashed, shattered vehicles of every description - tanks, armored cars, trucks, autos, fire trucks, according to the March 18, 1991, Time magazine. On the sixty miles of coastal highway, Iraqi military units sit in gruesome repose, scorched skeletons of vehicles and men alike, black and awful under the sun, says the Los Angeles Times of March 11, 1991. While 450 people survived the inland road bombing to surrender, this was not the case with the 60 miles of the coastal road. There for 60 miles every vehicle was strafed or bombed, every windshield is shattered, every tank is burned, every truck is riddled with shell fragments. No survivors are known or likely. The cabs of trucks were bombed so much that they were pushed into the ground, and it's impossible to see if they contain drivers or not. Windshields were melted away, and huge tanks were reduced to shrapnel. "Even in Vietnam I didn't see anything like this. It's pathetic," said Major Bob Nugent, an Army intelligence officer. This one-sided carnage, this racist mass murder of Arab people, occurred while White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater promised that the U.S. and its coalition partners would not attack Iraqi forces leaving Kuwait. This is surely one of the most heinous war crimes in contemporary history.

[Goldmember]

:headshake

[DBAHO]

Damn there were ppl aged from 18 and in there low 20's in there. They had so much of their life to live. Let them all Rest in Peace.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many...It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

--Barbara Bush on "Good Morning America"...yes, this is the mother of the boy moron running our country.

 

Or Nuke...how about "Bring 'em on!"

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, why don't you tell us about the US war crimes of Gulf War I...you know the 24th Infantry Division and Barry McCaffrey murdering Iraqis 2 days after the cease fire was signed.  The "highways of death" are the two Kuwaiti roadways, littered with remains of 2,000 mangled Iraqi military vehicles, and the charred and dismembered bodies of tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers, who were withdrawing from Kuwait on February 26th and 27th 1991 in compliance with UN resolutions. U.S. planes trapped the long convoys by disabling vehicles in the front, and at the rear, and then pounded the resulting traffic jams for hours. "It was like shooting fish in a barrel," said one U.S. pilot . . . On the inland highway to Basra is mile after mile of burned, smashed, shattered vehicles of every description - tanks, armored cars, trucks, autos, fire trucks, according to the March 18, 1991, Time magazine. On the sixty miles of coastal highway, Iraqi military units sit in gruesome repose, scorched skeletons of vehicles and men alike, black and awful under the sun, says the Los Angeles Times of March 11, 1991. While 450 people survived the inland road bombing to surrender, this was not the case with the 60 miles of the coastal road. There for 60 miles every vehicle was strafed or bombed, every windshield is shattered, every tank is burned, every truck is riddled with shell fragments. No survivors are known or likely. The cabs of trucks were bombed so much that they were pushed into the ground, and it's impossible to see if they contain drivers or not. Windshields were melted away, and huge tanks were reduced to shrapnel. "Even in Vietnam I didn't see anything like this. It's pathetic," said Major Bob Nugent, an Army intelligence officer. This one-sided carnage, this racist mass murder of Arab people, occurred while White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater promised that the U.S. and its coalition partners would not attack Iraqi forces leaving Kuwait. This is surely one of the most heinous war crimes in contemporary history.

Nice try there Killer.

 

The 24th ID was fired upon first after taking up blocking positions along the main roads between Kuwait and Iraq. The Hammurabi Division of the Republican Guard, cut off from communication with Baghdad had no idea that a cease fire was in effect and fired on the 24th with Artillery and direct fire. The 24th, under McCaffery, then proceeded to destroy those elements of the Hammurabi in what was one of the most one-sided engagements in a one sided war. The actual account of this is all spelled out in the book "Certain Victory: The U.S. Army in the Gulf War" That is the official Army account of the war. It's kinda dry and full of militaryspeak but it is very informative.

 

As for the Highway of Death the bulk of those killed were members of the Republican Guard who looted those same vehicles from the Kuwaitis and tried to haul ass north. Many of those that were not killed on the Highway of Death raids were the same ones used a few months later to crush Kurdish and Shi'a rebellions. No sympathy for them here, sorry.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Nice try there Killer. 

 

The 24th ID was fired upon first after taking up blocking positions along the main roads between Kuwait and Iraq.  The Hammurabi Division of the Republican Guard, cut off from communication with Baghdad had no idea that a cease fire was in effect and fired on the 24th with Artillery and direct fire.  The 24th, under McCaffery, then proceeded to destroy those elements of the Hammurabi in what was one of the most one-sided engagements in a one sided war.  The actual account of this is all spelled out in the book "Certain Victory:  The U.S. Army in the Gulf War"  That is the official Army account of the war.  It's kinda dry and full of militaryspeak but it is very informative.

 

As for the Highway of Death the bulk of those killed were members of the Republican Guard who looted those same vehicles from the Kuwaitis and tried to haul ass north.  Many of those that were not killed on the Highway of Death raids were the same ones used a few months later to crush Kurdish and Shi'a rebellions.  No sympathy for them here, sorry.

Yes...and the Army has never lied before. Nuke, they said My Lai never happened either and tried to cover that up. When an organization is known for murdering women, children and civilians in a slaughter or even making up attacks (Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?) then I tend not to believe a damn word they have to say.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Yes...and the Army has never lied before.  Nuke, they said My Lai never happened either and tried to cover that up.  When an organization is known for murdering women, children and civilians in a slaughter or even making up attacks (Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?) then I tend not to believe a damn word they have to say.

So when my old platoon sergeant who was in the 24th ID at the time told me a similar story he was lying too? I wonder.

[israel4ever]

Well, thanks to "American Aggression" the killing in that country is almost over.

Right on, Nuke!!!

 

I may agree with Apu that Bush is a f***ing moron, but, G-d Bless the U.S. Troops.

 

I have been seeing dozens of 'em coming home every day through O'Hare, and I try to thank every one of them for serving our Country!

 

[LowerCaseRepublican]

So when my old platoon sergeant who was in the 24th ID at the time told me a similar story he was lying too?  I wonder.

A lot of the troops that perpetrated My Lai lied too. Luckily there were people with balls like Hugh Thomson to call them out on it and make them tell the truth.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

http://www.thememoryhole.org/unacceptable-target.htm

 

Is that a village of women and kids? Where's the napalm?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

A lot of the troops that perpetrated My Lai lied too.  Luckily there were people with balls like Hugh Thomson to call them out on it and make them tell the truth.

Maybe I should have put that in green. So we who wear camoflauge are a bunch of liars and your little pussy ass leftist activist groups are saints above reproach huh. Got it. I'll never doubt your uninformed opinion again.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Nuke, not all troops are liars. I am saying there is a contingent that commit atrocities and lie about them. With the photgraphic, forensic and ballistic evidence, it's pretty much a solid case that it was a huge war crime that McCaffrey perpetrated.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Maybe I should have put that in green.  So we who wear camoflauge are a bunch of liars and your little pussy ass leftist activist groups are saints above reproach huh.  Got it.  I'll never doubt your uninformed opinion again.

Insults. Wow, Nuke. I figure you'd have a better defense. I didn't know cold blooded amoral murderers had apologists.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, not all troops are liars.  I am saying there is a contingent that commit atrocities and lie about them.  With the photgraphic, forensic and ballistic evidence, it's pretty much a solid case that it was a huge war crime that McCaffrey perpetrated.

Ok General Sideshow what would you do if you were taking artillery and tank fire from 2 brigades worth of Iraqi armor? Would you calmly try to explain to your opponent that their side gave up already or would you light them up?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, not all troops are liars.  I am saying there is a contingent that commit atrocities and lie about them.  With the photgraphic, forensic and ballistic evidence, it's pretty much a solid case that it was a huge war crime that McCaffrey perpetrated.

Every time a U.S. soldier pulls the trigger you guys scream "WAR CRIME!!!" You guys are a bunch of chicken littles if I ever saw em.

[SoxAce]

I have been seeing dozens of 'em coming home every day through O'Hare, and I try to thank every one of them for serving our Country!

 

       

I as well see them too. Some even come to my school to say hi to the people who taught them years ago or give an open presentation. There's always a handshake and a best wishes sent from me to them always..

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I as well see them too. Some even come to my school to say hi to the people who taught them years ago or give an open presentation. There's always a handshake and a best wishes sent from me to them always..    

Trust me guys, when people back home shake our hands and offer their support for us that means far more than any medal or award the military could give us. The week after I got back a guy and his family stopped me in the Best Buy in Savannah, Ga and offered me a handshake and thanks & I damn near choked up right there.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Ok General Sideshow what would you do if you were taking artillery and tank fire from 2 brigades worth of Iraqi armor?  Would you calmly try to explain to your opponent that their side gave up already or would you light them up?

Nuke, I tend to doubt that they were even fired upon. Given the history of the Army lying, I have a very difficult time believing that they were fired upon. Few soldiers report crimes, because they don't want to jeopardize their Army careers.

 

The journalist who broke the story quotes one colonel's statement that the assault "made no sense for a defeated army to invite their own death. ... It came across as shooting fish in a barrel. Everyone was incredulous."

 

At some 25,000 words and exhaustive itself by the standards of magazine journalism, Hersh's article exhumes all four investigations and portrays them as whitewashes. Hersh even depicts internal skepticism about the vigor of the investigations and about why the Army decided not to press its investigation further. "They'd just won a war and didn't want to s*** in their mess kit," a retired major general is quoted as saying. One investigator, Warrant Officer Willie Rowell, told Hersh that, "he felt that he and his fellow-investigators had established that, at best, only two rounds were fired by Iraqi forces at the ... platoon on the morning [of the massacre], but regardless of his and the others' doubts about McCaffrey, he said, the Dinkel investigation 'came up with nothing that would have won a trial.'" He added, "If you're a two-star general, you can do whatever you want to do, under the confusion of war."