RIP: They died in Iraq

[ChiSox_Sonix]

idk about you but i dont see our oil prices dropping i doubt the war was about that.

its because it wasnt about that. Apu how bout you show us some images of the thousands of Iraqis slaughtered by Saddam Hussein? Or that wouldnt help your point now would it? Speaking of WMDs, they have found one, and he is currently in custody. Yes, civilians died because of this war. But how many are not going to die as a result of it because Hussein is no longer in power?

[Texsox]

2) I implied that you are a racist because in the short time I've been posting on Soxtalk, you have never said one positive thing about Israel, nor have you supported any pro-Israel ideas. You have also personally attacked me (unprovoked) on many occasions, and have not once agreed with any of my opinions, (is it because I'm a Jew/Zionist?).

Show me where I disagreed with you on Israel? Besides my statement that no HUMAN can be perfect and with the constant threats, suicide bombers, and everything else happening to Israel it is even more impossible for them to be perfect.

 

But go ahead. Please post where I criticized Israel. Show me where I disputed one of your Pro-Israel idea.

 

Do I disagree with your position on assasinations? - Yes I disagree and so does our Constitution.

 

Do I disagree with your position that the elimination of all Palastinians is a necessary condition for Israel's peace? Yes I disagree.

 

Do I disagree with your position that it is ok for Israel to spy on us because we are spying on them? Yes I disagree.

 

Do I disagree with your position that suicide bombers are the lowest form of life and should be stopped? Yes I do.

 

Do I disagree with your position that Israel is a sovereign nation and the US should defend her? I agree, we should defend Israel. Israel has been the most loyal of any Middle Eastern Country. Too bad she has no oil.

 

I disagree with your position that there can be no peace in Israel unless the Palistinians are destroyed.

 

I disagree with your opinion that all Palistinians are not trustworthy.

 

You are so racist against Palastinians you refuse to believe that someone else could see good in both.

 

But please, go back and show me my racist statements. Show me my terrible anti-Israel statements.

 

And again. Just because I think you are an idiot, doesn't mean I dislike all Jews. Just as you disliking me doesn't mean you hate all Chicagoans or White Sox fans.

 

And by-the-way I heard an interesting talk at a Boy Scout 10 Commandment walk by the local Rabbi. He felt that just being born into a faith is meaningless unless you practice it.

 

And I am tryng to rememebr what pro-Israel statements you have made. It seems you usually make anti-Palistinian statements then label anyone who disagrees a racist. You see it as one or the other. Perfect recipe for extreemist behavior.

[israel4ever]

Your view of a debate is everyone agree that Israel is perfect or they are racist. I believe Israel is 80% right in their actions, you said 99.5%. I'm supposedly a racist, you are not. What is the percentage that gets me labeled?

 

I've condemed suicide bombers, you've advocated the assasination of Arafat.

 

And you talk about debate. A debate has to have two sides. There are not two sides with you.

 

I do not agree with most that APU posts on the subject. I think his retoric is as one sided as yours. I will not condem an entire group of people over the actions of a few.

 

And by the way, Israel is a nation, not a religion. But since you seem to link them, how can you rationalize your 100% devotion to Israel. You're willingness to defend the slightest criticism, yet you do not practice your faith? Is there some guilt complex working here?

 

Have a pleasant evening. And would you please post my quotes that you feel are racist? I've been through three threads and cannot see where you get the idea. I think the persona you have created on-line is as an idiot. Not because you are supposedly Jewish, but because your posts are assanine. 

1. Once again (for about the hundredth time!) I never said Israel was perfect, or even 99.5% perfect. What I said was, with re. the conflict re. the disputed territories, Israel is 99.5% in the right. The palis have no legitimate claim to any part of Eretz Yisrael...and NEVER DID.

 

2. I said that as long as Arafat (the supreme terrorist) is alive, and in power of the PA, there will never be peace with the Palis! Since he ain't going anywhere, if you want peace with his people, you have to take him out.

 

(BTW, if the US had a chance to assassinate Osama Bin Laden, do you think they should do it?)

 

3. Like I said (about a dozen times), I feel that to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause = to be anti-Israel. It is the same as having been sympathetic to the Nazi cause in WWII. I'm getting sick of repeating myself, but, maybe one time you'll get it; why does Arafat and the Palestinians preach "Palestine, from the River to the Sea"? This could only be accomplished if Israel was eliminated. Therefore, I equate being sympathetic to the Palestinian cause as being anti-Israel, thus, racist towards Israel!

 

4. This is getting boring, repeating myself to a dimwit like yourself, but, here goes. I consider myself a Jew AND a Zionist. I was born a Jew, was Bar Mitzvahed, attend high holiday services, etc. My pro-Israel beliefs are Zionist ones; I believe in the right for a Jewish state (Israel) to exist. (BTW, I have a few Christian Zionist friends too!). I don't believe in degrees of Judaism; just because someone goes to synagogue twice a week doesn't make them more of a Jew than me, just like I don't feel that there are better Catholics than others, or better Protestants than others, etc.

 

5. You have called me "idiot", "stupid f***", etc., yet you spell as well as I did, when I was in the 3rd grade. You don't understand/comprehend anything that is written. Like I said, in any discussion, when one party has to resort to name calling and obscene language, he loses any credibility he may have had. (Get someone to read this posting to you, verrrrrrry slowly, so maybe some of it will sink in!)

[israel4ever]

Show me where I disagreed with you on Israel? Besides my statement that no HUMAN can be perfect and with the constant threats, suicide bombers, and everything else happening to Israel it is even more impossible for them to be perfect.

 

But go ahead. Please post where I criticized Israel. Show me where I disputed one of your Pro-Israel idea.

 

Do I disagree with your position on assasinations? - Yes I disagree and so does our Constitution.

 

Do I disagree with your position that the elimination of all Palastinians is a necessary condition for Israel's peace? Yes I disagree.

 

Do I disagree with your position that it is ok for Israel to spy on us because we are spying on them? Yes I disagree.

 

Do I disagree with your position that suicide bombers are the lowest form of life and should be stopped? Yes I do.

 

Do I disagree with your position that Israel is a sovereign nation and the US should defend her? I agree, we should defend Israel. Israel has been the most loyal of any Middle Eastern Country. Too bad she has no oil.

 

I disagree with your position that there can be no peace in Israel unless the Palistinians are destroyed.

 

I disagree with your opinion that all Palistinians are not trustworthy.

 

You are so racist against Palastinians you refuse to believe that someone else could see good in both.

 

But please, go back and show me my racist statements. Show me my terrible anti-Israel statements.

 

And again. Just because I think you are an idiot, doesn't mean I dislike all Jews. Just as you disliking me doesn't mean you hate all Chicagoans or White Sox fans.

 

And by-the-way I heard an interesting talk at a Boy Scout 10 Commandment walk by the local Rabbi. He felt that just being born into a faith is meaningless unless you practice it.

 

And I am tryng to rememebr what pro-Israel statements you have made. It seems you usually make anti-Palistinian statements then label anyone who disagrees a racist. You see it as one or the other. Perfect recipe for extreemist behavior.

I don't recall saying all Palestinians are bad, and/or untrustworthy. Palestinian "leadership", unfortunately, is both bad and untrustworthy.

[israel4ever]

If you've got specific sources, cite them.  Just claiming there are newspapers out there, that does nothing.  C'mon build your case.  I'm waiting...

 

I'm not defending Arafat.  I'm fighting Likud-nik Zionist right wing bulls***.  There's a difference.

This attached picture is just the kind of anti-Israel propaganda bulls*** that I would expect to see skinheads, Al Queda members, Klansmen and/or Neo-Nazis distributing. Oh, and Apu.

 

Hey Apu, you never did answer my question...when Arafat preaches "Palestine - from the River to the Sea", what does that mean?

 

Does it mean the Palis want to coexist peacefully with Israel? Nope.

 

Does it mean they want to destroy Israel? Yep.

 

Since you are so sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, does that then mean you'd like to see Israel destroyed? Probably.

 

(BTW, am I supposed to feel sorry about the death of a pali-stone thrower who would have inevitably grown up to be a terrorist?) Answer that one yourself, Adolf!

[YASNY]

thats weak though. Do you realize that at this time less than a third of males in England had voting rights? Most couldnt even participate in parliament. The Hannoverian Kings still had quite a bit of power. The citizens in England were paying MANY more taxes than were being proposed in the colonies. We were told in school "no taxation without representation" but that is just a small reason we went to war. A lot of it was they felt the taxes levied upon them were too harsh. All my point is, is that history has many sides, and its often not told as it should be.

Oh, if I was trying to start a debate, yes it would be "weak". I was just trying to add something to the issue that had been overlooked.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

This attached picture is just the kind of anti-Israel propaganda bulls*** that I would expect to see skinheads, Al Queda members, Klansmen and/or Neo-Nazis distributing. Oh, and Apu.

 

Hey Apu, you never did answer my question...when Arafat preaches "Palestine - from the River to the Sea", what does that mean?

 

Does it mean the Palis want to coexist peacefully with Israel? Nope.

 

Does it mean they want to destroy Israel? Yep.

 

Since you are so sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, does that then mean you'd like to see Israel destroyed? Probably.

 

(BTW, am I supposed to feel sorry about the death of a pali-stone thrower who would have inevitably grown up to be a terrorist?) Answer that one yourself, Adolf!

Ad hominem. When you can't disprove the statements made, always resort to baseless accusations and assertions that are not true in order to deflect not dissecting the points made in the argument.

 

Can't adequately discuss why the IDF shot an 8 year old unarmed boy in the head? Call the opponent a neo-Nazi for no f***ing reason and that's sure to stop any questioning!

 

You are a thinly veiled racist Zionist. You're idiocy to not even debate the points I have made is beyond insane. Perhaps getting yourself educated and not being a racist asshat who believes certain people are sub-human might help you out. Besides, I seem to remember a certain guy who thought a certain group of people were sub-human and wanted to eliminate them all. Yeah, you probably know the name.

 

Your entire speech is f***ing dripping with irony.

[Texsox]

Israel,

Did you happen to find my racist remarks? Of course not, because I never made any. A decent human being would retract your vile accusation. But then again, I wouldn't expect someone who advocates murder, to do the decent thing.

 

I feel that calling me a racist was about the greatest insult you could have leveled against me. All I'm asking is for you to cite the specific posts here that led you to say such a thing. Perhaps in your circles it is ok to make false statements against someone. Perhaps based on your racist views of Palestinians, you do not feel calling someone a racist is such that big a deal. Well I do.

 

I agree the current leadership in the Middle East has made a lasting peace impossible. Hopefully with a reshuffling of the deck, there may be a bater chance. But with both sides being taught how bad the other side is, it may be becoming harder and harder for that to happen.

 

Do you think all Palastinians are against peace with Israel, or just thier leaders? You earleir said that not all Palastinians are bad. ARe you claiming that ALL? Majority? of Palastinians want to destroy Israel?

 

Are you claiming if someone is sypathetic to Palestine they want Israel destroyed? Why does it have to be one or the other? If it is one or the other, how do you intend to accomplish this?

 

Name calling? I don't believe anyone on this board is named Adolph. Read your own posts. racist asshat. As soon as someone disagrees with you, you start screaming racist.

 

Maybe since you are such an idiot you think calling someone a racist is just name calling. To me it is a serious allegation. And for about the hundredth time, point to my post. Point to where I disagreed with your Israel position. I disagree with your anti-Palestinian people positions.

[israel4ever]

Israel,

Did you happen to find my racist remarks? Of course not, because I never made any. A decent human being would retract your vile accusation. But then again, I wouldn't expect someone who advocates murder, to do the decent thing.

 

I feel that calling me a racist was about the greatest insult you could have leveled against me. All I'm asking is for you to cite the specific posts here that led you to say such a thing. Perhaps in your circles it is ok to make false statements against someone. Perhaps based on your racist views of Palestinians, you do not feel calling someone a racist is such that big a deal. Well I do.

 

I agree the current leadership in the Middle East has made a lasting peace impossible. Hopefully with a reshuffling of the deck, there may be a bater chance. But with both sides being taught how bad the other side is, it may be becoming harder and harder for that to happen.

 

Do you think all Palastinians are against peace with Israel, or just thier leaders? You earleir said that not all Palastinians are bad. ARe you claiming that ALL? Majority? of Palastinians want to destroy Israel?

 

Are you claiming if someone is sypathetic to Palestine they want Israel destroyed? Why does it have to be one or the other? If it is one or the other, how do you intend to accomplish this?

 

Name calling? I don't believe anyone on this board is named Adolph. Read your own posts. racist asshat. As soon as someone disagrees with you, you start screaming racist.

 

Maybe since you are such an idiot you think calling someone a racist is just name calling. To me it is a serious allegation. And for about the hundredth time, point to my post. Point to where I disagreed with your Israel position. I disagree with your anti-Palestinian people positions.

For the millionth time, you ignorant fool, I will tell you.

 

For you to be sympathetic to the Palestinians' cause equates to being anti-Israel which in turn equates to being racist. Pro-Palestinian beliefs = anti_israeli beliefs, it's that simple! The palestinians have shown time and time again that they aren't interested in peace with Israel, they want all of Israel. AGAIN...why do they preach "Palestine from the River to the Sea" if they don't want all of the land?! Why did 68% of palis surveyed in an Arabic newspaper say they would endorse continued violence vs. Israel, even after they got their own state?

 

I swear to G-d, talking to you is like talking to a freakin' wall!!! You can't seem to comprehend.

 

Did you see the picture tht Apu posted? If that isn't anti-Israel Nazi propaganda bulls***, I don'y know what is! Apu calls that stone thrower a "hero"? Unbelievable.

 

Maybe you're not a racist, but, you are ignorant to the facts re. the Arab-Israeli dispute, there's no denying that.

[YASNY]

I've kept out of this debate, but I4E, you are the one that can't seem to comprehend intelligent debate and looking at both sides of an issue. Texsox has tried on numerous occasions to clarify that he is not anti-semite and has done so quite eloquently. Apu has shown you documentation to back up his points and you just throw the names of periodicals without getting into specific quotes or articles to support you point of view.

 

You have a closed and narrow mind. It's people like you that lead to the never-ending violence such as has happened in the middle east. You're no better than the fanatic Islamic Jihadists that won't listen to any reason whatsoever. You just happen to be on the other side.

[israel4ever]

I've kept out of this debate, but I4E, you are the one that can't seem to comprehend intelligent debate and looking at both sides of an issue.  Texsox has tried on numerous occasions to clarify that he is not anti-semite and has done so quite eloquently.  Apu has shown you documentation to back up his points and you just throw the names of periodicals without getting into specific quotes or articles to support you point of view. 

 

You have a closed and narrow mind.  It's people like you that lead to the never-ending violence such as has happened in the middle east.  You're no better than the fanatic Islamic Jihadists that won't listen to any reason whatsoever. You just happen to be on the other side.

1) Texsox has missed my point on numerous occasions, as have you. He is in essence saying, Hitler may have been an s.o.b., but some of the Nazis were okay. That's just wrong.

 

2) Apu quotes "sources" that are so radically anti-America/anti-Israel that they should only be classified as "Fiction". That's the section you'd find them in at Barnes and Noble.

 

3) When I mentioned all the media sources above, to contradict Apu's opinion, it was to demonstrate that all of the world's legitimate media sources know, and have reported that the Oslo Peace Accords broke down because Arafat turned down 99% of what he requested. It is as common knowledge as saying the Earth is round. Bill Clinton who sat in on Oslo has stated this on many occasions, but Apu (who to the best of my knowledge was NOT at Oslo), says differently, so he must be right!

 

You people are unbelievable.

[israel4ever]

Ad hominem.  When you can't disprove the statements made, always resort to baseless accusations and assertions that are not true in order to deflect not dissecting the points made in the argument.

 

Can't adequately discuss why the IDF shot an 8 year old unarmed boy in the head?  Call the opponent a neo-Nazi for no f***ing reason and that's sure to stop any questioning!

 

You are a thinly veiled racist Zionist.  You're idiocy to not even debate the points I have made is beyond insane.  Perhaps getting yourself educated and not being a racist asshat who believes certain people are sub-human might help you out.  Besides, I seem to remember a certain guy who thought a certain group of people were sub-human and wanted to eliminate them all.  Yeah, you probably know the name.

 

Your entire speech is f***ing dripping with irony.

Make a valid point first, Apu...then I'll debate it!

 

BTW, nobody ever doctors pictures, do they?

 

I'm calling you a neo-Nazi for speading anti-Israel propaganda like the picture you posted. How do we know that the eight year old kid got shot, because you said so? You would never lie about something like that, would you? Not with your anti-israel agenda.

 

You haven't answered my questions AGAIN...if the "palis" don't want ALL of Israel destroyed, why do they preach "from the River to the Sea"?

 

Why won't Arafat disarm the militant groups?

 

Why won't he disarm Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a group COMPLETELY under his control?

 

ANswer the questions, please!!!

[YASNY]

1) Texsox has missed my point on numerous occasions, as have you. He is in essence saying, Hitler may have been an s.o.b., but some of the Nazis were okay. That's just wrong.

 

2) Apu quotes "sources" that are so radically anti-America/anti-Israel that they should only be classified as "Fiction". That's the section you'd find them in at Barnes and Noble.

 

3) When I mentioned all the media sources above, to contradict Apu's opinion, it was to demonstrate that all of the world's legitimate media sources know, and have reported that the Oslo Peace Accords broke down because Arafat turned down 99% of what he requested. It is as common knowledge as saying the Earth is round. Bill Clinton who sat in on Oslo has stated this on many occasions, but Apu (who to the best of my knowledge was NOT at Oslo), says differently, so he must be right!

 

You people are unbelievable.

1. No. I have not missed your point. I've read this and other threads carefully.

 

2. "Time" Magazine, for example?

 

3. Blah Blah Blah. If these sources are so prevelant, quote them.

[israel4ever]

1.  No.  I have not missed your point.  I've read this and other threads carefully. 

 

2.  "Time" Magazine, for example?

 

3.  Blah Blah Blah.  If these sources are so prevelant, quote them.

When has Apu quoted Time Magazine???

[israel4ever]

Let me cite some quotes for you:

 

MYTH: "Violence is an understandable and legitimate reaction to Israel's policies."

 

FACT: The basis of the peace process is that disputes should be resolved through negotiations. One of the conditions Israel set before agreeing to negotiate with the PLO was that the Organization renounce terrorism. It formally did so; however the PLO and other Palestinian groups and individuals have consistently resorted to violence SINCE THE OSLO PROCESS BEGAN IN 1993. (emphasis added) Whether or not Israel made concessions, Palestinians still committed heinous attacks. In some instances atrocities are perpetrated because of alleged mistreatment; in other cases they are deliberate efforts to sabotage negotiations. Regardless, the PA, which has a 40000+ person police force (larger than allowed under the Peace Agreements) and multiple intelligence agencies, must be held responsible for keeping the peace.

 

Terrorist Activity Since the Signing of the Declaration of Principles (but prior to the current intafada...

IDF Soldiers killed 52

IDF soldiers wounded 1036

Israeli civilians killed 48

Civilians wounded 653

Shootings 758

Cases of Arson 115

Molotov Cocktails 2499

 

These acts occurred between the dates of 09/13/1993 - 08/11/1999

 

Myths and Facts - A guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict by Mitchell Bard pp 252-3

[Queen Prawn]

More have died today:

 

Deadly Explosion Destroys Baghdad Hotel - yahoo link

[israel4ever]

MYTH: The outbreak of violence in late 2000, dubbed by Arabs the al-Aksa intafada, was provoked by Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount.

 

FACT: To believe Palestinian spokesmen (and Apu) , the violence was caused by the desecration of a Muslim holy place - Haram al-Sharif - by Likud leader Ariel Sharon and the "thousands of Israeli soldiers" who accompanied him. The violence was carried out through unprovoked attacks by Israeli forces, which invaded Palestinian-controlled territories and "massacred" defenseless palestinian civilians, who merely threw stones in self-defense.

 

The truth is dramatically different.

 

Imad Faluji, the PA Communications Minister, admitted months after Sharon's visit that the violence had been planned in July, far in advance of Sharons "provocation". "It (the uprising) had been planned since Arafat's return from Camp David, when he turned the tables on President Clinton and rejected the American conditions." (Jerusalem Post 03/04/2001)

 

("The Sharon visit did not cause the al-Aksa intafada." Conclusion of the Mitchell Report 05/04/2001)

 

The violence started BEFORE Sharon's 09/28/2000 visit (emphasis added) to thr Temple Mount. The day before an Israeli soldier was killed at the Netzarim Junction, by an explosion of a roadside bomb. The next day in the West bank city of Kalkilya, a Palestinian police officer working with Israeli police on a joint patrol opened fire and killed his Israeli counterpart.

 

Official PA media exhorted the palestinians to violence. On 09/29, the Voice of Palestine, the PA's official radio station sent out calls "to all Palestinians to come and defend the al-Aksa mosque." The PA closed its schools and bused Palestinian students to the Temple Mount to participate in the organized riots.

 

Sharon did not enter any mosques during his 34 minute visit, and the visit took place during normal hours when the area is open to tourists.

 

There were limited disturbances during Sharon's visit, mostly involving stone throwing. DUring the remainder of the day the stone throwing continued, leaving 28 Israeli policemen injured, 3 of them hospitalized. There are NO accounts of Palestinian injuries on that day.

 

"It is not a mistake that the Koran warns us of the hatred of the Jews and put them at the top of the list of enemies of Islam. Today the Jews recruti the world against the Muslims and use all kinds of weapons. They are plundering the dearest place to the Muslims, after Mecca and Medina and threaten the place the Muslims have faced at first when they prayed and the third holiest city after Mecca and Medina. They want to erect their temple on that place....The Muslims are ready to sacrifice their lives and blood to protect the Islamic nature of Jerusalem and EL Aksa!" (Shiekh Hian Al-Adrisi, Excerpt of address in the al-Aksa mosque 09/29/2000)

 

The real desecration of holy places was perpetrated by Palestinians, not Israelis. In October 2000, Palestinian mobs destroyed "Joseph's Tomb", tearing up and burning Jewish prayer books. They stoned worshipers at the Western Wall and attacked "Rachel's Tomb" in Bethlehem with firebombs and automatic weapons.

 

NONE of the violent attacks were initiated by Israeli security forces, which in all cases responded to Palestinian violence that went well beyond stone throwing. It included massive attacks with automatic weapons and the lynching of Israeli soldiers. MOST ARMED ATTACKERS WERE MEMBERS OF THE TANZIM - ARAFAT'S OWN MILITIA. (Emphasis added)

 

The disproprtionate number of Palestinian casualties was the inevitable result of an irregular, ill-trained militia attacking a regular, well trained army, and the TANZIM'S FREQUENT USE OF PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS AS SHIELDS FOR ITS ATTACKS. (Emphasis added)

 

Since ALL attacks were initiated by Palestinians under Arafat's orders, only Arafat has the power to end the violence. Isral and the US have called on him to do so, and renew the peace process.

 

"Myths and Facts...pp250-2

[Gene Honda Civic]

I4E = Racist

 

I4E thinks Isrealis > Palistinians

 

Therfore I4E is racist.

 

/that is all.

[israel4ever]

I4E = Racist

 

I4E thinks Isrealis > Palistinians

 

Therfore I4E is racist.

 

/that is all.

Good to see you read neither of my last 2 postings, dumbass!!!

[israel4ever]

Cheat...forgive me for not having sympathy for people who wish to eradicate all Jews!

[CrimsonWeltall]

Good to see you read neither of my last 2 postings, dumbass!!!

 

Who gives a s*** about your last 2 posts?

 

Your notion that anyone who has the least bit of concern for Palestinians must be anti-Israel is absurd, as is the idea that anyone who doesn't like Israeli policy is a racist.

 

Then after calling everyone a racist, you b**** about people resorting to name-calling.

 

Shut the f*** up.

[israel4ever]

Who gives a s*** about your last 2 posts?

 

Your notion that anyone who has the least bit of concern for Palestinians must be anti-Israel is absurd, as is the idea that anyone who doesn't like Israeli policy is a racist.

 

Then after calling everyone a racist, you b**** about people resorting to name-calling.

 

Shut the f*** up.

Let see if you can understand what I'm trying to say, Professor.

 

1. The Palestinans' modus operandi is the destruction of the Jewish State of Israel.

2. To be sympathetic to the Palestinians' cause is to also be for the destruction of Israel.

3. Thus, if one is sympathetic to the cause of the Palestinians' , and their cause is the elimination of Israel, then....

 

Get it???

[YASNY]

When has Apu quoted Time Magazine???

Excuse me. I was mistaken. It was that other rag named The New York Times.

[YASNY]

MYTH: The outbreak of violence in late 2000, dubbed by Arabs the al-Aksa intafada, was provoked by Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount.

 

FACT: To believe Palestinian spokesmen (and Apu) , the violence was caused by the desecration of a Muslim holy place - Haram al-Sharif - by Likud leader Ariel Sharon and the "thousands of Israeli soldiers" who accompanied him. The violence was carried out through unprovoked attacks by Israeli forces, which invaded Palestinian-controlled territories and "massacred" defenseless palestinian civilians, who merely threw stones in self-defense.

 

The truth is dramatically different.

 

Imad Faluji, the PA Communications Minister, admitted months after Sharon's visit that the violence had been planned in July, far in advance of Sharons "provocation". "It (the uprising) had been planned since Arafat's return from Camp David, when he turned the tables on President Clinton and rejected the American conditions." (Jerusalem Post 03/04/2001)

 

("The Sharon visit did not cause the al-Aksa intafada." Conclusion of the Mitchell Report 05/04/2001)

 

The violence started BEFORE Sharon's 09/28/2000 visit (emphasis added) to thr Temple Mount. The day before an Israeli soldier was killed at the Netzarim Junction, by an explosion of a roadside bomb. The next day in the West bank city of Kalkilya, a Palestinian police officer working with Israeli police on a joint patrol opened fire and killed his Israeli counterpart.

 

Official PA media exhorted the palestinians to violence. On 09/29, the Voice of Palestine, the PA's official radio station sent out calls "to all Palestinians to come and defend the al-Aksa mosque." The PA closed its schools and bused Palestinian students to the Temple Mount to participate in the organized riots.

 

Sharon did not enter any mosques during his 34 minute visit, and the visit took place during normal hours when the area is open to tourists.

 

There were limited disturbances during Sharon's visit, mostly involving stone throwing. DUring the remainder of the day the stone throwing continued, leaving 28 Israeli policemen injured, 3 of them hospitalized. There are NO accounts of Palestinian injuries on that day.

 

"It is not a mistake that the Koran warns us of the hatred of the Jews and put them at the top of the list of enemies of Islam. Today the Jews recruti the world against the Muslims and use all kinds of weapons. They are plundering the dearest place to the Muslims, after Mecca and Medina and threaten the place the Muslims have faced at first when they prayed and the third holiest city after Mecca and Medina. They want to erect their temple on that place....The Muslims are ready to sacrifice their lives and blood to protect the Islamic nature of Jerusalem and EL Aksa!" (Shiekh Hian Al-Adrisi, Excerpt of address in the al-Aksa mosque 09/29/2000)

 

The real desecration of holy places was perpetrated by Palestinians, not Israelis. In October 2000, Palestinian mobs destroyed "Joseph's Tomb", tearing up and burning Jewish prayer books. They stoned worshipers at the Western Wall and attacked "Rachel's Tomb" in Bethlehem with firebombs and automatic weapons.

 

NONE of the violent attacks were initiated by Israeli security forces, which in all cases responded to Palestinian violence that went well beyond stone throwing. It included massive attacks with automatic weapons and the lynching of Israeli soldiers. MOST ARMED ATTACKERS WERE MEMBERS OF THE TANZIM - ARAFAT'S OWN MILITIA. (Emphasis added)

 

The disproprtionate number of Palestinian casualties was the inevitable result of an irregular, ill-trained militia attacking a regular, well trained army, and the TANZIM'S FREQUENT USE OF PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS AS SHIELDS FOR ITS ATTACKS. (Emphasis added)

 

Since ALL attacks were initiated by Palestinians under Arafat's orders, only Arafat has the power to end the violence. Isral and the US have called on him to do so, and renew the peace process.

 

"Myths and Facts...pp250-2

I do, however, have to give you some credit. This is, at least, something besides your own personal rants and raves.

[CrimsonWeltall]

1. The Palestinans' modus operandi is the destruction of the Jewish State of Israel.

2. To be sympathetic to the Palestinians' cause is to also be for the destruction of Israel.

3. Thus, if one is sympathetic to the cause of the Palestinians' , and their cause is the elimination of Israel, then....

 

Hey ace, I said concern for Palestinians. You know, the people themselves. Not every Palestinian works for Yassir Arafat or wants to kill Israelis.

 

By the way, your 'proof' still doesn't connect dislike of the Israeli government with anti-Jewish racism.