southsider2k5 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1761449 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 ...or he might just be posturing to appease Congress... The MLBPA and MLB would be stupid not to put some kind of tough testing program in place. It seems that politicians want it there, and they always hold the antitrust exemption over MLB's heads. The union runs the risk of being seen as conspirators of they keep opposing testing, and that makes players look guilty to the general public. It's all bad PR, if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Selig? Posture? Surely you jest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 Selig? Posture? Surely you jest Yeah, it is hard to posture, without any backbone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I do not know if you guys heard, but there is talk about making androstenedione illegal. While I would venture that many players do not take steroids, I would imagine andro is much more common. McGwire admitted to taking andro. I wonder what would happen if andro is made illegal. Guess why it is going to be made illegal...because exactly what happen to McGwire, it recks the body in the long run. Drug companies need to prove it is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I do not know if you guys heard, but there is talk about making androstenedione illegal. While I would venture that many players do not take steroids, I would imagine andro is much more common. McGwire admitted to taking andro. I wonder what would happen if andro is made illegal. Guess why it is going to be made illegal...because exactly what happen to McGwire, it recks the body in the long run. Drug companies need to prove it is safe. What, exactly, was it that happened to McGwire? This is not a "challenge" type question. I'm just wondering if you know something I don't about Big Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillieHarris2 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 i think i would have to agree with selig on this one. not only is this in the best interests of the game but its also in the best interests of the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 i think i would have to agree with selig on this one. not only is this in the best interests of the game but its also in the best interests of the players. But what happened to teh baby steps that MLBPA insisted had to happen and MLB aggreed to in the last CBA? The Players Association fought sweeping changes, to the point that getting caught juicing gets just a hand slap or so untill you are dumb enought to be caught 4 or 5 times. With the > 5% positive tests in last year's blind testing, periodic random testing was implemented. If I understand correctly, if this turns up more than some predefined threshold of use, then another level of crackdown will be enacted. My point is NOT that I don't want to see the game cleaned up, I do as much as anyone. But, now, after years of getting NOWHERE, baseball is now getting SOMEWHERE, even if it's only by baby steps. Importantly, they were doing it ON THEIR OWN. Why now should it become a political issue for outside influences to dictate and mandate? It's an easy target for politicos that need easy targets. Illegal drugs can't fight back, and just seems like a new, ill-advised front on the doomed and ill-advised 'war on drugs." Baseball had set the wheels in motion, Ironically, ONLY NOW are steroids worthy of a state of the union address and federal legislation...? Someone please get me up to speed if I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillieHarris2 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 But what happened to teh baby steps that MLBPA insisted had to happen and MLB aggreed to in the last CBA? The Players Association fought sweeping changes, to the point that getting caught juicing gets just a hand slap or so untill you are dumb enought to be caught 4 or 5 times. With the > 5% positive tests in last year's blind testing, periodic random testing was implemented. If I understand correctly, if this turns up more than some predefined threshold of use, then another level of crackdown will be enacted. My point is NOT that I don't want to see the game cleaned up, I do as much as anyone. But, now, after years of getting NOWHERE, baseball is now getting SOMEWHERE, even if it's only by baby steps. Importantly, they were doing it ON THEIR OWN. Why now should it become a political issue for outside influences to dictate and mandate? It's an easy target for politicos that need easy targets. Illegal drugs can't fight back, and just seems like a new, ill-advised front on the doomed and ill-advised 'war on drugs." Baseball had set the wheels in motion, Ironically, ONLY NOW are steroids worthy of a state of the union address and federal legislation...? Someone please get me up to speed if I'm missing something. i see where your coming from. i think illegal drugs is a no brainer and it shouldnt take policticians to force the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 What, exactly, was it that happened to McGwire? This is not a "challenge" type question. I'm just wondering if you know something I don't about Big Mac. IIRC his knees and other joints where shot. The last season he played he was on the DL most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 But what happened to teh baby steps that MLBPA insisted had to happen and MLB aggreed to in the last CBA? The Players Association fought sweeping changes, to the point that getting caught juicing gets just a hand slap or so untill you are dumb enought to be caught 4 or 5 times. With the > 5% positive tests in last year's blind testing, periodic random testing was implemented. If I understand correctly, if this turns up more than some predefined threshold of use, then another level of crackdown will be enacted. My point is NOT that I don't want to see the game cleaned up, I do as much as anyone. But, now, after years of getting NOWHERE, baseball is now getting SOMEWHERE, even if it's only by baby steps. Importantly, they were doing it ON THEIR OWN. Why now should it become a political issue for outside influences to dictate and mandate? It's an easy target for politicos that need easy targets. Illegal drugs can't fight back, and just seems like a new, ill-advised front on the doomed and ill-advised 'war on drugs." Baseball had set the wheels in motion, Ironically, ONLY NOW are steroids worthy of a state of the union address and federal legislation...? Someone please get me up to speed if I'm missing something. It just so happens that some of the game's biggest stars were tied into a federal investigation of a company and individuals charged with the illegal distribution of steroids. And this has occured since the CBA. Do you think this just might have something to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 IIRC his knees and other joints where shot. The last season he played he was on the DL most of the time. I guess Andre Dawson was on steroids too. Shot knees is proof positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I guess Andre Dawson was on steroids too. Shot knees is proof positive. Well, I'll be damned. I've got very bad knees, so who did it? Who slipped steroids into my Diet Pepsi while I wasn't looking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Well, I'll be damned. I've got very bad knees, so who did it? Who slipped steroids into my Diet Pepsi while I wasn't looking? Ummmm Errrrrr I don't know what youre talking about hehehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I will be shocked if Bud gets up the balls to tell the union its going to happen even if they don't like it. I hope he does this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Well, I'll be damned. I've got very bad knees, so who did it? Who slipped steroids into my Diet Pepsi while I wasn't looking? Gary Sheffield also claims he never knowingly took steroids. You two must have the same agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I guess Andre Dawson was on steroids too. Shot knees is proof positive. I am 99% positive he admitted taking andro...andro is not steroids too, andro is very easy to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Gary Sheffield also claims he never knowingly took steroids. You two must have the same agent. SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Damn, now I am busted. At least I don't have to worry about anything shriveling up...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Damn, now I am busted. At least I don't have to worry about anything shriveling up...lol LMAO!!!! Women have things SO good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I am 99% positive he admitted taking andro...andro is not steroids too, andro is very easy to get. Yes, he did admit that. But Andro was not banned by MLB and Andro was not illegal. In fact, it was available over the counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Yes, he did admit that. But Andro was not banned by MLB and Andro was not illegal. In fact, it was available over the counter. That is not what I was even talking about. No s*** it is available over the counter. You actually have to ask for it though, you just cannot go into a GNC and get it off a shelf, it is locked in a case. It is still allowed in baseball, is it not? I asked if baseball would ban it if the USDA made it illegal, that was all I was asking. And you acted like a dochebag, you prick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 That is not what I was even talking about. No s*** it is available over the counter. You actually have to ask for it though, you just cannot go into a GNC and get it off a shelf, it is locked in a case. It is still allowed in baseball, is it not? I asked if baseball would ban it if the USDA made it illegal, that was all I was asking. And you acted like a dochebag, you prick. Steve, I think there may be a miscommunication in that events you speculate might happen, already did happen last week. Last Thursday, the FDA (as a dietary supplement, this is the realm of FDA, not USDA, Steve) 'asked' androstenedione (Andro) makers to stop manufacturing and making available the product. I have my own response to Yas (who I respect quite a bit based on his posts here, and don't believe is a douche even though we are in a disagreement), but in the end I'm on the same page as he and most about the eventual need to ben this 'presteroid.' I may have intimated above that I thought MLB and the Players Association was being very proactive in the post 2002 CBA 'baby steps' on steroid use. I in fact tthink they are lagging astoundingly behind, which speaks to the imfluence of MLBPA (not a bad thing in many other respects). When McGuire admittted to Andro use in 1998, the Intternational Olympic Committee already had it banned. NFL, NBA, and NCAA all had ANDRO bans in place by 2000 IIRC. The fact that Andro is now not considered a steroid but 'steroid precursor'(it requires a functional group reduction to yield testosterone) has allowed the legal loophole by which this 'dietary supplement' has been sold legally over the counter and did not need to be addressed by baseball until now. Fact is, the human body knows perfectly well how to turn it into testosterone, so IOC, NFL, NBA, and NCAA are on the money and baseball IS behind the times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 It just so happens that some of the game's biggest stars were tied into a federal investigation of a company and individuals charged with the illegal distribution of steroids. And this has occured since the CBA. Do you think this just might have something to do with it? My point is that steroid abuse was featured in the State of the Union address nd elsewhare front and center before the BALCO thing came to a head (though not before investigation began). This became an Administration priority – way easier than creating jobs I guess – and so now we are seeing record-rapid FDA action, Selig ready to comply, senators who for years have lobbied for the Andro manufacturers now wilting under pressure.... In due time, Andro manufacture and sales SHOULD cease. But, for 23 companies to last week go from legally making/selling Andro as a dietary supplement one day to the next day being threatened with non-specific yet serious repurcussions if they don't immediately cease and desist procuction - that is extreme. Compare this to the EPA ban on Ephedra which as of last week was implicated in 155(!) deaths, including that of Steve Bechler. Despite this, that industry had been able to mount semi-successful appeals to the ban for more than a year. With the speed that Andro has gone from an over-the-counter GNC purchase to a de facto illegal-to-produce substance, it must be responsible for at least as many deaths, right? Not as many as that? Then how many? The point is that Baseball finally was moving in the right direction, and the measures put in place by the latest CBA have not been given a chance to work before we have all these external forces swooping down (only now) to effect a change we all knew was needed for a long time. How many players hit 70 HRs last year? 60? 50?? Not conclusive evidence that self-regulation is working but a strong suggestion that it is nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 ...or he might just be posturing to appease Congress... The MLBPA and MLB would be stupid not to put some kind of tough testing program in place. It seems that politicians want it there, and they always hold the antitrust exemption over MLB's heads. The union runs the risk of being seen as conspirators of they keep opposing testing, and that makes players look guilty to the general public. It's all bad PR, if nothing else. All they are doing is dragging this issue out so they can buy time for the players that are juicing to clean up their act . Maybe nobody gets caught this season but I bet you that HR's are down this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Gary Sheffield also claims he never knowingly took steroids. You two must have the same agent. Never knowingly took roids? Whad happened? Did the trainer sneak into his bedroom while he was sleeping and shoot him up with the stuff or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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