DBAHO Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 From the Daily Herald, TEMPE, Ariz. - At the moment, White Sox general manager Kenny Williams doesn't feel like messing with a starting rotation that features Mark Buehrle, Esteban Loaiza, Jon Garland, Scott Schoeneweis and, most likely, Dan Wright. There's not a legitimate ace in the bunch, and only Buehrle has a somewhat proven track record. Loaiza, who came from out of nowhere last season to finish second in Cy Young Award voting with a 21-9 record, has been hit hard in his last two spring starts and is becoming more of a question mark than sure thing. But as the days before the April 5 regular-season opener at Kansas City continue to dwindle, it's not like Williams is lacking outside options. For months there have been rumors of a trade with the pitching-rich Dodgers, but Williams has been reluctant to send a power hitter like Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko to Los Angeles in exchange for a marginal starter like Odalis Perez. Before spring training opened, the typically covert Williams acknowledged talking trade with the Dodgers. "It's quite possible,'' he said. "I know they've been looking for a (hitter) for a long time and the market certainly has gotten very thin. It's possible.'' While the rumors linking the Sox with L.A. have cooled considerably, Williams just might have an even better trade partner with the Angels. Ironically, the White Sox played a Cactus League game against Anaheim on Tuesday and faced starting pitcher Bartolo Colon. After going 15-13 with a 3.87 ERA and 9 complete games for the Sox last season, Colon spurned a three-year, $36 million contract offer and wound up signing a four-year, $51 million deal with the Angels. Colon's departure left a gaping hole in the White Sox' rotation, but there is a chance an Anaheim starter could fill the void. "If Kenny thinks we need some help in the starting rotation, I'm sure he'll go out and get somebody,'' said Sox manager Ozzie Guillen. How does Jarrod Washburn sound? If the White Sox are willing to part with a quality minor-league prospect like Jeremy Reed, Joe Borchard or Jon Rauch, Washburn could be had, according to sources. The 29-year-old Washburn pitches a lot like Buehrle and had a big season (18-6, 3.15 ERA) in 2002 while helping the Angels win the World Series. Washburn tailed off last year, going 10-15 with a 4.43 ERA. The left-hander is slated to make $5.45 million this season. If Washburn doesn't appeal to the Sox, right-hander Ramon Ortiz is also available. Like Washburn, Ortiz was solid in 2002 (15-9, 3.77 ERA) before falling back to 16-13 with a 5.20 ERA in 32 starts last year. The 30-year-old Ortiz carries a $3.1 million salary this year. And if that's not enough, Anaheim is willing to part with 33-year-old Aaron Sele, a disappointing 7-11 (5.77 ERA) in 25 starts last season. Sele was a big winner with the Red Sox, Rangers and Mariners from 1997-2001, but the veteran right-hander is still trying to make a complete recovery from rotator cuff surgery he had following the '02 season. If the White Sox agreed to take a gamble on Sele in a trade, the Angels would have to pick up a significant chunk of his $8.5 million salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 If we could swing a deal for Washburn, and somehow get Anaheim to pay a small part of that contract, I could move someone like Joe Borchard. As much of a question mark as Borchard is right now, I'd have to make a move like that. Well, that also depends on Washburn's status contract-wise after 2004. Someone find that out for us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I wonder where I've read that article before..... Ohhhhhh, yeahhhhhh, NOW I remember..... http://www.soxtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=16228 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Do we really need TWO soft-tossing lefties in our rotation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Do we really need TWO soft-tossing lefties in our rotation? I am not saying Washburn is or isn't the answer, but if they get outs, who the hell cares how they throw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I would bet the Angels would trade Ortiz b4 they trade Washburn. Washburn is their only leftie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Thing I wouldn't mind seeing is if KW could work it to get Ortiz and Kennedy for 2B. That would make all the difference for this team me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Wow, I would really be impressed if this deal went though. We need another starter. Just not willing to give up one of our first-tier prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Do we really need TWO soft-tossing lefties in our rotation? DK, I am really curious about your signature... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I was looking up Washburn and Ortiz. If this is up to date on ESPN. Ortiz makes 2.2 million and Washburn makes 3.85 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I was looking up Washburn and Ortiz. If this is up to date on ESPN. Ortiz makes 2.2 million and Washburn makes 3.85 million. It says in the article that Ortiz makes about $3.1 mill this year and I believe it said Washburn makes $5.45. With those numbers, and Anaheim not taking anyone on, we can't trade Rauch for just one of them. However, I personally would take a Sele for Konerko trade. It helps us financially in that we get rid of a big contract after this year(while Konerko's goes until 05), allowing us more room to resign Maggs and Loaiza(we'd have Maggs's $14 mill coming off, Sele's $8 mill, Valentin's $5 mill, Koch's $6 mill, and Loaiza's $3.5, and there are other littler ones as well....with just those big contracts, we have roughly $36.5 mill coming off, though I would hope that about $15-20 mill of that would be spent to retain Maggs and Loaiza) Also, I wonder if this could be made into a 3-way deal, with Chicago sending Konerko to LA, LA sending Shuey or Mota to Anaheim, and Anaheim sending Washburn/Ortiz to Chicago. Helps strengthen an already strong Anaheim bullpen, gets LA some offense, and gets the Sox another starter that they need(though I'm not sure what we'd do with Wright then, whether it be trade him in one of those deals or try to make him a reliever...I'm not exactly sure) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Also, I wonder if this could be made into a 3-way deal, with Chicago sending Konerko to LA, LA sending Shuey or Mota to Anaheim, and Anaheim sending Washburn/Ortiz to Chicago. Helps strengthen an already strong Anaheim bullpen, gets LA some offense, and gets the Sox another starter that they need(though I'm not sure what we'd do with Wright then, whether it be trade him in one of those deals or try to make him a reliever...I'm not exactly sure) That is a very interesting trade wite. It would help all the teams included. But do you think Gload can hold his own at first base or Thomas? Cause at least Konerko has a proven track record as far as his numbers. (not counting last year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 That is a very interesting trade wite. It would help all the teams included. But do you think Gload can hold his own at first base or Thomas? Cause at least Konerko has a proven track record as far as his numbers. (not counting last year) We try it. If he can't, he takes over Daubach's job from last year and we trade Matt Ginter/Jon Rauch/Felix Diaz to Pittsburgh for Randall Simon. I see no reason why they would not do that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 We try it. If he can't, he takes over Daubach's job from last year and we trade Matt Ginter/Jon Rauch/Felix Diaz to Pittsburgh for Randall Simon. I see no reason why they would not do that deal. Ginter for Simon, if only we could be so lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 We try it. If he can't, he takes over Daubach's job from last year and we trade Matt Ginter/Jon Rauch/Felix Diaz to Pittsburgh for Randall Simon. I see no reason why they would not do that deal. They would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 They would. Exactly. I mean, they did take Jose Hernandez and Bobby Hill(otherwise known as boy wonder and the second-coming) and not much more for Randall Simon, Kenny Lofton, and Aramis Ramirez, who were all critical in the Cubs success last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 It says in the article that Ortiz makes about $3.1 mill this year and I believe it said Washburn makes $5.45. With those numbers, and Anaheim not taking anyone on, we can't trade Rauch for just one of them. However, I personally would take a Sele for Konerko trade. It helps us financially in that we get rid of a big contract after this year(while Konerko's goes until 05), allowing us more room to resign Maggs and Loaiza(we'd have Maggs's $14 mill coming off, Sele's $8 mill, Valentin's $5 mill, Koch's $6 mill, and Loaiza's $3.5, and there are other littler ones as well....with just those big contracts, we have roughly $36.5 mill coming off, though I would hope that about $15-20 mill of that would be spent to retain Maggs and Loaiza) Also, I wonder if this could be made into a 3-way deal, with Chicago sending Konerko to LA, LA sending Shuey or Mota to Anaheim, and Anaheim sending Washburn/Ortiz to Chicago. Helps strengthen an already strong Anaheim bullpen, gets LA some offense, and gets the Sox another starter that they need(though I'm not sure what we'd do with Wright then, whether it be trade him in one of those deals or try to make him a reliever...I'm not exactly sure) I wouldn't take Wright out of the rotation if we did get Washburn... I'd move Shoe to the bullpen, or just to another team if possible, if we got Washburn. Wright has outpitched Shoenwies by a TON this spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Do we really need TWO soft-tossing lefties in our rotation? Him and Buehrle really have two different styles. Washburn throws about 90% fastballs where Buehrle throws like 6 different pitches. Washburn just does a great job of changing his location and adjusting speeds as well as types of fastballs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 wite, not a bad suggestion but Mota has had some arm troubles this spring and the Dodgers bullpen is rather thin. If the Dodgers make a deal, they will be moving one of their starters, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I wouldn't take Wright out of the rotation if we did get Washburn... I'd move Shoe to the bullpen, or just to another team if possible, if we got Washburn. Wright has outpitched Shoenwies by a TON this spring training. That is arguable. I'd personally rather have a damn good bullpen over a damn good rotation. Roughly 99% of the population of the United States knows that baseball games are 9 innings, and a lot of those people know that starters usually only pitch 6 or 7 innings, sometimes 8, and if you are Bartolo Colon and you want the ball no matter what, all 9. However, not everyone is Bartolo Colon and they can only go 6-7 innings, and you need to close out some close games now and then. That is when you have to bring in another pitcher, and I want a guy that is going to be lights out for me on any given night. Scho proved last year he is not that kind of guy, while Wright hasn't proved one way or the other. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I would rather have a mediocre rotation and a lights out pen then have a good rotation and a good bullpen. If by our magic powers we knew Wright would have a 15-12 4.62 200 inning season and Scho would have a 13-13 4.96 season 180 innings, I would consider long and hard about who I would have in the rotation. Personally, I would probably choose to put Wright in the pen, mainly because of pure gut instinct that he could be a very good reliever and Scho cannot(based on what he has done in the past). Neither would be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 That is arguable. I'd personally rather have a damn good bullpen over a damn good rotation. I see where you are coming from with the great bullpen situation and mediocre starting rotation but what happened last year because we didn't have a dependable 5th starter? We lost all of those games because no one was consistent. Even if you had a 5th starter that could go 5 okay innings wouldn't the bullpen get over worked? Not only will they have to handle 4 innings to themselves every 5th day but our other 4 starters aren't going to last 6-7 innings every time out, sometimes people don't get past the 3rd inning so what then? I rather have a great starting rotation and a mediocre bullpen because if your starters can give you 6-7 innings strong innings mostly every time out that’s enough for your bullpen to come in and hold the lead for 1-3 innings instead of 4 innings every 5th start excluding every day for the other starters. Jarrod Washburn would give this team a BIG boost. Our bullpen is pretty much set and strong but with Loiaza and Shoey having trouble lately it's giving us some pretty big question marks. Picture a rotation of Buehrle, Loiaza, Washburn, Garland, and Wright or Shoey. We keep the other teams off balance with the lefties and righties every other day and a good bullpen and a good offense, that sounds a lot better than what we have now by just adding Washburn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 From the Daily Herald, TEMPE, Ariz. - At the moment, White Sox general manager Kenny Williams doesn't feel like messing with a starting rotation that features Mark Buehrle, Esteban Loaiza, Jon Garland, Scott Schoeneweis and, most likely, Dan Wright. There's not a legitimate ace in the bunch, and only Buehrle has a somewhat proven track record. Loaiza, who came from out of nowhere last season to finish second in Cy Young Award voting with a 21-9 record, has been hit hard in his last two spring starts and is becoming more of a question mark than sure thing. But as the days before the April 5 regular-season opener at Kansas City continue to dwindle, it's not like Williams is lacking outside options. For months there have been rumors of a trade with the pitching-rich Dodgers, but Williams has been reluctant to send a power hitter like Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko to Los Angeles in exchange for a marginal starter like Odalis Perez. Before spring training opened, the typically covert Williams acknowledged talking trade with the Dodgers. "It's quite possible,'' he said. "I know they've been looking for a (hitter) for a long time and the market certainly has gotten very thin. It's possible.'' While the rumors linking the Sox with L.A. have cooled considerably, Williams just might have an even better trade partner with the Angels. Ironically, the White Sox played a Cactus League game against Anaheim on Tuesday and faced starting pitcher Bartolo Colon. After going 15-13 with a 3.87 ERA and 9 complete games for the Sox last season, Colon spurned a three-year, $36 million contract offer and wound up signing a four-year, $51 million deal with the Angels. Colon's departure left a gaping hole in the White Sox' rotation, but there is a chance an Anaheim starter could fill the void. "If Kenny thinks we need some help in the starting rotation, I'm sure he'll go out and get somebody,'' said Sox manager Ozzie Guillen. How does Jarrod Washburn sound? If the White Sox are willing to part with a quality minor-league prospect like Jeremy Reed, Joe Borchard or Jon Rauch, Washburn could be had, according to sources. The 29-year-old Washburn pitches a lot like Buehrle and had a big season (18-6, 3.15 ERA) in 2002 while helping the Angels win the World Series. Washburn tailed off last year, going 10-15 with a 4.43 ERA. The left-hander is slated to make $5.45 million this season. If Washburn doesn't appeal to the Sox, right-hander Ramon Ortiz is also available. Like Washburn, Ortiz was solid in 2002 (15-9, 3.77 ERA) before falling back to 16-13 with a 5.20 ERA in 32 starts last year. The 30-year-old Ortiz carries a $3.1 million salary this year. And if that's not enough, Anaheim is willing to part with 33-year-old Aaron Sele, a disappointing 7-11 (5.77 ERA) in 25 starts last season. Sele was a big winner with the Red Sox, Rangers and Mariners from 1997-2001, but the veteran right-hander is still trying to make a complete recovery from rotator cuff surgery he had following the '02 season. If the White Sox agreed to take a gamble on Sele in a trade, the Angels would have to pick up a significant chunk of his $8.5 million salary. No way in hell do we give Reed for Washburn. He's ok but he's not worth Reed. If kenny does that Trade he needs to be shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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