LostInBoston Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come. Compared to Chavez, Magg's numbers aren't much better: Chavez Last 3 years Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 2001 OAK 151 552 91 159 43 0 32 114 41 99 8 2 .288 .338 .540 .878 2002 OAK 153 585 87 161 31 3 34 109 65 119 8 3 .275 .348 .513 .860 2003 OAK 156 588 94 166 39 5 29 101 62 89 8 3 .282 .350 .514 .864 Maggs Last 3 years Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 2001 CHA 160 593 97 181 40 1 31 113 70 70 25 7 .305 .382 .533 .914 2002 CHA 153 590 116 189 47 1 38 135 53 77 7 5 .320 .381 .597 .978 2003 CHA 160 606 95 192 46 3 29 99 57 73 9 5 .317 .380 .546 .926 Seems we (or someone) should be able to get Maggs for less than his $15mil/yr asking price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Hopefully Maggs will see that the money just isn't out there and really wants to come back to the Sox. If the Sox can get him to sign for $12M would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 He will find out that he will not get $15 million, especially for as many years as he wants. It just is not out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Chavez is one of the top 3 3B in the game today, he took a hometown discount to stay with Oakland becuase I'm sure Steinbrenner would hav offered him a lot, lot more. Hopefully Maggs sees this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Chavez is one of the top 3 3B in the game today, he took a hometown discount to stay with Oakland becuase I'm sure Steinbrenner would hav offered him a lot, lot more. Hopefully Maggs sees this. No, cause then Mags will think he can get more. I just want Mags to see what Chavez got, not why. Lets just hope Mags has the same agent as Terrell Owens or Dennis Northcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 No, cause then Mags will think he can get more. I just want Mags to see what Chavez got, not why. Lets just hope Mags has the same agent as Terrell Owens or Dennis Northcut. Who is his agent anyway? David Joseph couldn't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Maggs has hit .305 or better the last 3 years, Chavez has .288 as his highest. Maggs produces more runs, K's less, seems to be a little better base-stealer, has not had an OBP of under .380 over the past 3 years while Chavez has had one at .350, Maggs low SLG% is .533(along with a .597 SLG% in 2001) while Chavez's high is .540 over that span, and as a byproduct of those, Maggs has not had an OPS of under .914 while Chavez has not had one over .878. The ONLY thing Chavez has a clear advantage over Ordonez in as far as on-field things go right now, IMO, is a gold glove at 3B, while Maggs has a solid glove and a good, accurate arm in RF. Is defense that much more important? However, Chavez is only like 25 or 26, so he has probably not even peaked offensively yet, while Maggs is in his early 30s and is in the phase where some, but not all hitters, fizzle out a little bit. That is also a clear advantage. At that price, I'd say Maggs is worth $13-15 mill a year, but if we got lucky as hell, he would resign with us, knowing he is the piece of the puzzle that we need, and he'd resign with us for $12 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Here's the difference, its a lot harder to find that production from a 3rd baseman then it is a right fielder, imo. On top of that Chavez is a gold glove defensive third baseman and is just entering his prime (Maggs is basically in his prime). To me Maggs shouldn't get much, if any, more then Chavez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Here's the difference, its a lot harder to find that production from a 3rd baseman then it is a right fielder, imo. On top of that Chavez is a gold glove defensive third baseman and is just entering his prime (Maggs is basically in his prime). To me Maggs shouldn't get much, if any, more then Chavez. The thing I look at is that Chavez is an elite 3Bman, and really, Maggs is too. The difference between a Magglio Ordonez and a Reggie Sanders isn't just in the numbers. When you watch the game, it seems that Maggs(and Eric Chavez and Bonds, Sosa, Giambi, etc) just for some reason has a prescence about him and he can just take over a game. To me, that was the difference between Bartolo Colon and Esteban Loaiza last year, and that is why Colon does deserve $10 mill a year(not damn near $13 mill a year that Anaheim is giving him though) and Esteban not quite so much. That is part of the reason why Halladay won the Cy Young and Esteban didn't, even though Esteban quite possibly had better numbers. Anyways, that's kind of goofy, but it seems like, to an extent, it is true. Also, you have to also compare him to Vlad Guerrero and the contract he got, and compare their numbers, you'd see that Vlad beats him as well. So Maggs probably isn't worth $15 mill a year. I'd say he's definately worth $12-13 mill though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Chavez is one of the top 3 3B in the game today, he took a hometown discount to stay with Oakland becuase I'm sure Steinbrenner would hav offered him a lot, lot more. Hopefully Maggs sees this. Didn't King George just acquire another 3rd baseman? Can't remember his name but it was in all the papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Didn't King George just acquire another 3rd baseman? Can't remember his name but it was in all the papers. Yeah, you are right. His name is Mike Lamb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Didn't King George just acquire another 3rd baseman? Can't remember his name but it was in all the papers. Well, I'll put it this way. Derek Jeter at 2B. Pay-Rod at SS. Eric Chavez at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 You could be spot on. Actually I thought the ARod - Jeter switch would have been done already, you know a big press conference where Jeter gives up his position for the love of the pin stripes. Violins in the background. Jeter has been brutal the last couple years, mostly due to injury, and while I haven't seen him yet this spring, it would be hard to convince me that even at his best the Jankees are better with him in front ARod - the greatest shortstop of the present era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 You could be spot on. Actually I thought the ARod - Jeter switch would have been done already, you know a big press conference where Jeter gives up his position for the love of the pin stripes. Violins in the background. Jeter has been brutal the last couple years, mostly due to injury, and while I haven't seen him yet this spring, it would be hard to convince me that even at his best the Jankees are better with him in front ARod - the greatest shortstop of the present era. Not only that, but it is much, much easier to find a good hitting 3Bman over a good hitting 2Bman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Not only that, but it is much, much easier to find a good hitting 3Bman over a good hitting 2Bman. Hence why Jose Vidro will prob be wearin Pin Stripes by the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 If Rowand has a good season and any of our young outfielders have a good season then watch the Sox make a half ass offer to Maggs at the end of the season. Then watch him go and Reed, Bochard or someone else replace him. I wouldn't pay him over $12million/yr. He didn't hit over 30hr and didn't even have over 100 RBI. If you want over $10million a year then you should be putting up numbers like Pujols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 If Rowand has a good season and any of our young outfielders have a good season then watch the Sox make a half ass offer to Maggs at the end of the season. Then watch him go and Reed, Bochard or someone else replace him. I wouldn't pay him over $12million/yr. He didn't hit over 30hr and didn't even have over 100 RBI. If you want over $10million a year then you should be putting up numbers like Pujols. Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldnt Pujols have needed to go through arbitration? Pujols also got a bit more than $10 million (I do not remember exactly what). What player, Mags included, wants to take a paycut? No one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 If Rowand has a good season and any of our young outfielders have a good season then watch the Sox make a half ass offer to Maggs at the end of the season. Then watch him go and Reed, Bochard or someone else replace him. I wouldn't pay him over $12million/yr. He didn't hit over 30hr and didn't even have over 100 RBI. If you want over $10million a year then you should be putting up numbers like Pujols. I like the twisting of the details to make your argument work. Nice job. Maggs didn't hit 30 homers or drive in 100 runs last year, you are correct. He hit 29 homers and drove in 99 runs, and that was the worst year of his career since his true rookie season. The year before he had a nice .320 38 135 .980 OPS season...well worth the $6.5 mill he made. You compare Maggs to Pujols, and really, that is not a valid argument. It is almost comparing apples to oranges, but not quite, so we'll say comparing tangerines to oranges. They are both OFers, and both are very good OFers...but Pujols is, when everything is considered, quite possibly the best player in the game, and Maggs is a top 10 OFer...player is a broader field then OFer. Maggs might be a top 50 player. Also, Pujols signed his first contract, which is his first 3 years in the league, and no one gets a huge contract in the first 3 years of their career...not Pujols big anyways. You consider that after Pujols's contract is up(assuming he stays healthy and continues to improve), he could make $16-20 mill a year. It is almost unfair to compare Pujols to anybody in the majors but Bonds. Comparing Maggs to Vlad Guerrero is much more valid, and you consider that Vlad got $15 mill a year and he is a little better then Maggs, and I'd say Maggs is worth $12-$13 mill a year, which is a slight improvement, because if I am remembering correctly, Maggs signed a 3-year $29.5 mill deal, which is just under $10 mill a year. If he were to refuse $13 mill a year, it would really be sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I like the twisting of the details to make your argument work. Nice job. Maggs didn't hit 30 homers or drive in 100 runs last year, you are correct. He hit 29 homers and drove in 99 runs, and that was the worst year of his career since his true rookie season. The year before he had a nice .320 38 135 .980 OPS season...well worth the $6.5 mill he made. You compare Maggs to Pujols, and really, that is not a valid argument. It is almost comparing apples to oranges, but not quite, so we'll say comparing tangerines to oranges. They are both OFers, and both are very good OFers...but Pujols is, when everything is considered, quite possibly the best player in the game, and Maggs is a top 10 OFer...player is a broader field then OFer. Maggs might be a top 50 player. Also, Pujols signed his first contract, which is his first 3 years in the league, and no one gets a huge contract in the first 3 years of their career...not Pujols big anyways. You consider that after Pujols's contract is up(assuming he stays healthy and continues to improve), he could make $16-20 mill a year. It is almost unfair to compare Pujols to anybody in the majors but Bonds. Comparing Maggs to Vlad Guerrero is much more valid, and you consider that Vlad got $15 mill a year and he is a little better then Maggs, and I'd say Maggs is worth $12-$13 mill a year, which is a slight improvement, because if I am remembering correctly, Maggs signed a 3-year $29.5 mill deal, which is just under $10 mill a year. If he were to refuse $13 mill a year, it would really be sad. Aint Pujols playing 1B this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Aint Pujols playing 1B this year? He probably is, but I honestly have no clue. He was a LFer last year, he can play 3B...hell for all I care, he can probably due cart wheels and back flips while drinking a cup of coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Wasnt sure if anyone saw this on RotoWorld, but in the contract, Chavez can block a trade from 8 teams he selected. Blue Jays, Brewers, Devil Rays, Expos, Indians, Marlins, Mets and Twins. Thought that was kind of funny. Wow. usually the Sox are on those lists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 By the looks of the list, I would think those picks are just based alot on location. Flordia being the only one I dont understand. They are all either small market or Canadian teams... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Let me try and break this down, figure out why he doesn't want to go to these teams. Blue Jays - They're in Canada Brewers - Small payroll team, not very competitive Devil Rays - Small payroll team, not very competitive...and then the Florida thing from below too. Expos - Small payroll team along with being in Canada Indians - Small payroll team, probably won't be competitive until 2005 at the earliest Marlins - ???, your guess is as good as mine. Maybe he doesn't want to play in Florida? Mets - s***ty team Twins - Small payroll team, small market too That's my best guesses. BTW, that Canada remark...that is not meant to be offensive to our resident Canadiens. I think that is honestly the reason...maybe it has to do with citizenship, I'm not sure exactly. Probably the same reason why Percival will not accept a trade to either Canadien team too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Let me try and break this down, figure out why he doesn't want to go to these teams. Blue Jays - They're in Canada Brewers - Small payroll team, not very competitive Devil Rays - Small payroll team, not very competitive...and then the Florida thing from below too. Expos - Small payroll team along with being in Canada Indians - Small payroll team, probably won't be competitive until 2005 at the earliest Marlins - ???, your guess is as good as mine. Maybe he doesn't want to play in Florida? Mets - s***ty team Twins - Small payroll team, small market too That's my best guesses. BTW, that Canada remark...that is not meant to be offensive to our resident Canadiens. I think that is honestly the reason...maybe it has to do with citizenship, I'm not sure exactly. Probably the same reason why Percival will not accept a trade to either Canadien team too. Taxes are why players don't want to go to Canada. Both income and sales taxes are way higher. Plus the Canadian dollar isn't worth nearly as much as the US $. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Taxes are why players don't want to go to Canada. Both income and sales taxes are way higher. Plus the Canadian dollar isn't worth nearly as much as the US $. That makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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