Bad news for rape victims

[Steff]

Bryant's Accuser to Testify About Sex Life

By JON SARCHE, Associated Press Writer

 

DENVER - The woman accusing Kobe Bryant of rape will be forced to testify Wednesday about her sex life — a move some experts fear could discourage other women from reporting sexual assaults.

 

The 19-year-old woman will testify behind closed doors, but media members will be at the courthouse to report that she had to answer questions from defense attorneys about intimate details of her life.

 

 

"I'm frightened about this decision, only for the fact that families will not support victims and survivors to go report because they can now say, `Look what happened to so-and-so,'" said Jeri Elster of Los Angeles, who was raped in 1992 and has lobbied for changes in the law. "It feels like a huge setback for survivors and victims to come."

 

 

The hearing will be held to determine whether details of the woman's sex life can be introduced at Bryant's trial. The defense says the information should be admitted because it could show that the woman's injuries were caused by another sexual partner and that she had a "scheme" to sleep with Bryant, possibly to gain the attention of an ex-boyfriend.

 

 

The prosecution fought to limit defense questioning, but was rebuffed by the Colorado Supreme Court. The hearing will be the first time the woman has faced Bryant since their encounter last summer.

 

 

The Los Angeles Lakers (news) guard has said he had consensual sex with the woman at the Vail-area resort where she worked. If convicted, he could get four years to life in prison or 20 years to life on probation. No trial date has been set.

 

 

Colorado's rape-shield law, like others around the country, generally bars defense attorneys from bringing up information about an alleged victim's sex life. The idea is to prevent the defense from depicting the alleged victim as a woman of loose morals. Judges, however, can hear such testimony in private to determine whether the information is relevant and admissible as evidence.

 

 

Experts said it is not unusual in Colorado for an alleged victim to testify in such pretrial hearings. But none has attracted such widespread publicity.

 

 

The woman's name and photos of her are splashed almost weekly on the covers of supermarket tabloids and can easily be found online. Court filings are posted on the Internet.

 

 

"This is the most harmful misuse of the rape-shield law I have ever seen," Wendy Murphy, a former prosecutor who teaches at the New England School of Law, said of the Bryant case. "Without it, the defense would have nothing to point to to drag her into court."

 

 

Murphy believes many women are watching to see how Bryant's accuser handles what could be hours of grueling testimony. "If she makes it, then I think a lot more women will come forward and be able to handle what comes out" in court, Murphy said.

 

 

Some experts said there is good reason for the alleged victim to testify.

 

 

"Who knows the facts better as far as her history than her?" asked Karen Steinhauser, a former prosecutor and visiting professor at the University of Denver School of Law. "I'm not sure I would want the judge to decide based on what other people say happened."

 

 

Steinhauser said publicity could actually increase assault reports by prompting discussions about acquaintance rape that could help remove the stigma.

 

 

"I hope people see this as a system that, yes, is difficult on victims, but if it happened the way she says it happened, it's wrong, it's a crime and people need to be held accountable for that," Steinhauser said.

 

 

Nationally, 84 percent of sexual assault victims do not go to police, most out of fear people will learn about the assault or that they will be blamed for the attack, according to a 1992 study by the National Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center at the Medical University of South Carolina.

 

 

Center psychologist Connie Best said there are no reliable statistics to determine how a highly publicized rape case affects victim reporting rates. But she said anecdotal evidence and her own experience suggest that intense publicity discourages many victims from coming forward.

 

 

"If it's germane to the case, it should be brought out. That's due process and there's no problem with that from advocates in the field," Best said. "It's having other kinds of information made available" that creates a problem.

[SuperSteve]

Is it not relivent? I think it has some, not a ton, but some implecations here.

[Steff]

Is it not relivent? I think it has some, not a ton, but some implecations here.

A time frame before the incident and up to the time she reported the "crime" is acceptable, IMO. Questioning her about her sexual actions over the past 3 years - which is what the defense appears to be trying to do - is not relevant at all.

[HuskyCaucasian]

A time frame before the incident and up to the time she reported the "crime" is acceptable, IMO. Questioning her about her sexual actions over the past 3 years - which is what the defense appears to be trying to do - is not relevant at all.

I completely agree! What I did 3 years ago means nothing if I were accusing someone of rape today. What applies is what I have done within a few day period before and after the attack.

[Controlled Chaos]

A time frame before the incident and up to the time she reported the "crime" is acceptable, IMO. Questioning her about her sexual actions over the past 3 years - which is what the defense appears to be trying to do - is not relevant at all.

I agree with what you said. A time frame before the incident is acceptable. Where do you see that they want to go back 3 years? That would be ridiculous.

But if the girl had slept with 2 people in two nights or whatever...then the defense does have a case. It should be interesting to watch all this play out.

[Soxy]

I'm disappointed this happened, but not shocked. The Rape Shield Laws mean different things to different people--and I guess we're seeing in this case who's getting shielded.

 

While it might seem that previous history is a good way to detrmine this--it really only helps us see about CONSENSUAL sex. People can have lots of consensual sex and then sometimes decide not to have sex. It would be like a homeless person ripping a dollar from your hand, but his defense being, "But you gave money to other people..."

 

I'm not saying Kobe did or didn't do it--but these laws are a GOOD THING. Both the FBI and the DOJ have sexual assault (rape isn't a legal term--just for those of you with legalistic minds) as the LOWEST reported violent crime. And the reporting rate doesn't creep above 30%.

 

The question is, without trying to pass blame on Kobe, (and just in time for Sexual Assault Awareness Month--April) seeing the way this woman has been treated by the courts, the press, and popular opinion if you were a rape victim would YOU report?

[Steff]

I agree with what you said.  A time frame before the incident is acceptable.  Where do you see that they want to go back 3 years?  That would be ridiculous. 

But if the girl had slept with 2 people in two nights or whatever...then the defense does have a case.  It should be interesting to watch all this play out.

They are attempting to use her past sexual history to show a pattern of promiscuity. They are going to try to go back as far as when she first broke up with her ex-boyfriend which was in 2001. Of course this is all assumed talk.. no one knows for sure exactly what they want to ask her.. and they might not. But they want the option to. Completely tossing the RSL out the window. :headshake

 

One more thing... I don't care if she had sex with 80000 people the week before Kobe.. she still could have been raped.

[CrimsonWeltall]

This testimony is being done behind closed doors. If the judge decides the defense is just being assholish, he'll deem it inadmissable and the jury won't have to hear it.

 

And where are the Fake-Rape Shield Laws protecting someone's name and image when they haven't been shown to do anything? Any person denying a rape charge is in essence a possible victim of a crime themselves - being falsely charged with rape.

[Steff]

This testimony is being done behind closed doors.  If the judge decides the defense is just being assholish, he'll deem it inadmissable and the jury won't have to hear it. 

 

And where are the Fake-Rape Shield Laws protecting someone's name and image when they haven't been shown to do anything? Any person denying a rape charge is in essence a possible victim of a crime themselves - being falsely charged with rape.

But what is asked and her answers will be avaliable to the media. FIA requires it. The jury may not hear it.. but the public will - if that makes any sense.

 

 

As for the second part of your post... I can't speak for all the world on this topic.. but to me.. if a man doesn't get himself into a messy situation such as this.. he can't be falsely accused.

[Texsox]

And since it is a one on one crime, without witnesses, it is so hard to convict.

 

But if this was armed robbery and the accused said "she gave me the money" would it hold up in court?

 

If his was auto theft and the accused said, "he gave me the keys" does that hold up in court?

 

This is why casual sex is dangerous. This is why putting yourself in a vulnerable position is such a bad idea. Both parties will be harmed by this trial. The innocent and the guilty. One person is guilty, one is innocent. Either its a false complaint being played out on a world wide stage or a talented young man use to getting his way is getting his due.

[Steff]

This is why casual sex is dangerous. This is why putting yourself in a vulnerable position is such a bad idea. Both parties will be harmed by this trial. The innocent and the guilty. One person is guilty, one is innocent. Either its a false complaint being played out on a world wide stage or a talented young man use to getting his way is getting his due.

That's what it all boils down to.. a shame. :headshake

[CrimsonWeltall]

As for the second part of your post... I can't speak for all the world on this topic.. but to me.. if a man doesn't get himself into a messy situation such as this.. he can't be falsely accused. 

 

I disagree completely. Guys can get accused by people they've never even met. A woman's word is enough to get you brought in. In an Indiana study, 45 of 109 rape accusations were found false (the women admitted they had lied).

 

The study of these 45 cases of false rape allegations inexorably led to the conclusion that these false charges were able to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, a means of gaining revenge, and a platform for seeking attention/sympathy. This tripartite model resulted from the complainants’ own verbalizations during recantation and does not constitute conjecture.

 

Also, I'm hoping your last statement isn't implying that because a man has casual sex with a woman (a messy situation), he deserves to be falsely accused of rape and have his life f***ed up, while the woman has little to no responsibility in the matter.

[Texsox]

I do not have any sympathy for Kobe for putting himself in that position. If he was single, I could at least possibly understand.

[Steff]

I disagree completely.  Guys can get accused by people they've never even met.  A woman's word is enough to get you brought in. In an Indiana study, 45 of 109 rape accusations were found false (the women admitted they had lied).

 

 

 

Also, I'm hoping your last statement isn't implying that because a man has casual sex with a woman (a messy situation), he deserves to be falsely accused of rape and have his life f***ed up, while the woman has little to no responsibility in the matter.

Yea.. anyone can accuse anyone of anything. A rape investigation and charge does require some evidence.. you are aware of that.. right?

 

 

I call a spade a spade. Casual sex with someone you've known an hour is inviting trouble into your life. Add to that this moron is married with child. If you, or Kobe, or whomever wants to risk their lives.. and in his case the lives of 2 INNOCENT people - his wife and child - or if a single guy wants to screw someone he knows nothing about - risking HIS future... his future wives future.. his future kids future..

 

So be it, and you better be ready for anything. Casual sex with ANYONE you are NOT in a respectful relationship with can result in a rape aligation. You pick your battles..

[CrimsonWeltall]

Yea.. anyone can accuse anyone of anything. A rape investigation and charge does require some evidence.. you are aware of that.. right?

 

Tucker Carlson got charged with rape from a woman he never met in a city he'd never been to. What evidence do you think they had there other than her word?

 

Casual sex with ANYONE you are NOT in a respectful relationship with can result in a rape aligation.

 

Yes, as can not having sex.

[Steff]

Tucker Carlson got charged with rape from a woman he never met in a city he'd never been to.  What evidence do you think they had there other than her word?

 

 

 

Yes, as can not having sex.

And what happened to him in the end...? Nothing.

 

 

But you aren't going to prison when evidence proves you didn't even have sex with the person accusing you.. :headshake

 

 

Again, anyone can accuse anyone of anything. In a rape case there has to be evidence to get a conviction.

[CrimsonWeltall]

In a rape case there has to be evidence to get a conviction.

 

Yes, but there doesn't have to be a conviction to have you lose your family/money/reputation.

[Steff]

Yes, but there doesn't have to be a conviction to have you lose your family/money/reputation.

I'm sorry.. but if someone you NEVER HAD SEX WITH accuses you of raping them and the evidence proves that you NEVER HAD SEX WITH THEM.. and your family doesn't support you.. then your family is stupid. As well are the people who choose to doubt you.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges.

[mreye]

I call a spade a spade. Casual sex with someone you've known an hour is inviting trouble into your life. Add to that this moron is married with child. If you, or Kobe, or whomever wants to risk their lives.. and in his case the lives of 2 INNOCENT people - his wife and child - or if a single guy wants to screw someone he knows nothing about - risking HIS future... his future wives future.. his future kids future..

 

So be it, and you better be ready for anything. Casual sex with ANYONE you are NOT in a respectful relationship with can result in a rape aligation. You pick your battles..

[Soxy]

I disagree completely.  Guys can get accused by people they've never even met.  A woman's word is enough to get you brought in. In an Indiana study, 45 of 109 rape accusations were found false (the women admitted they had lied).

If you look through the FBI's website you will see that they put the false reporting rate for rape at 6%. Which, coincidentally, is about the same for a lot of other crimes. I would be more inclined to trust the FBI who has much more vast databases with their false reporting rate.

[Soxy]

Yes, but there doesn't have to be a conviction to have you lose your family/money/reputation.

And reporting a rape (even for a REAL survivor) is really pleasant. I can assure you that a reputation and family are lost for many survivors of sexual violence. It's not just men that suffer from reporting of rape--the negative stereotypes about women who are raped cause lots of blame to be cast on them. It's the most underreported violent crime for a reason--and that reason is the way survivors are treated and viewed by our society.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I'm sorry.. but if someone you NEVER HAD SEX WITH accuses you of raping them and the evidence proves that you NEVER HAD SEX WITH THEM.. and your family doesn't support you.. then your family is stupid. As well are the people who choose to doubt you.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

That statement was more general or leaning toward the Kobe case, not the Carlson one (though he did lose $14,000 in court costs)

 

If you look through the FBI's website you will see that they put the false reporting rate for rape at 6%. Which, coincidentally, is about the same for a lot of other crimes. I would be more inclined to trust the FBI who has much more vast databases with their false reporting rate.

 

I could only find stats as recent as '97, but they said the "unfounded rate" was 8% for rape and 2% for the other indexed crimes.

[Soxy]

I could only find stats as recent as '97, but they said the "unfounded rate" was 8% for rape and 2% for the other indexed crimes.

Hm, I haven't been there for a while, since I'm off school for a while. But I think I was on the 2000 data--their stats are helpful but not that well organized.

 

While you might not think those are the best and lowest numbers--I think they're pretty good.

 

And remember the low reporting rate for sexual assault--I would say one is more likely to get away with it than get falsely accused.

[Texsox]

Hm, I haven't been there for a while, since I'm off school for a while. But I think I was on the 2000 data--their stats are helpful but not that well organized.

 

While you might not think those are the best and lowest numbers--I think they're pretty good.

 

And remember the low reporting rate for sexual assault--I would say one is more likely to get away with it than get falsely accused.

And I wonder how many women drop the case after seeing what they will be going through.

[Soxy]

And I wonder how many women drop the case after seeing what they will be going through.

The county attorney that I work with up in Minnesota estimates that of the reported rape cases only about half he's seen have gone to trial because women don't want to file...Keep in mind those are just the REPORTED cases...So, the odds of actually getting a conviction on a sexual assault are pretty bad--it's frustrating for most everyone that works with it...