KipWellsFan Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I don't own a hangun. I don't even own a long gun, but I do believe the 2nd Amendment guarantees me the right to own one to protect my family if need be. I bet that families who own guns for "protection" end up with more gun related fatalities than families who don't own guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I bet that families who own guns for "protection" end up with more gun related fatalities than families who don't own guns. Yes, but how many of those famillies w/o guns are killed each year by terrorists and British RedCoats busting through thier front door? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I bet that families who own guns for "protection" end up with more gun related fatalities than families who don't own guns. I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 A lot of times, Tex, these "innocent" men aren't as innocent as it seems. For example, look at the Rodney King situation. He probably didn't need to be beaten to the extent that he was, but, subsequently, he has shown himself to be a "total scumbag".He is constantly in trouble with the law and has been arrested on several occasions. With very, very, very few exceptions, no 100% innocent people are imprisoned in the US. Exactly my point. Our system assures that we rarely convict an innocent person. If we allowed our rights to be trampled, more innocent people (and more criminals) would be convicted. No, I do not support the death penalty. 1. Not a deterent. The murder rate in states that execute a lot of criminals is as high or higher as those states that do not. If murder was not a crime, would you have killed someone? Murderers occure as "crimes of passion", "during a rage" or by people who do not think like you and I. Do you think murderers are leaving Texas to go to New Hampshire to commit their crime? 2. Not reversible if a mistake is made 3. I respect all life (unborn and walking) 4. Thou shall not kill 5. Too expensive 6. Our legal system is far from perfect or fair (it can be bought) If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will accidentaly shoot their kids. And no, I do not support a ban on handguns. I do think for protection while you are home, you need the gun accessible, loaded, with no locks, so you can get to it quickly to protect yourself. I do not see how someone can do that and insure their kids do not get a hold of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Yes, but how many of those famillies w/o guns are killed each year by terrorists and British RedCoats busting through thier front door? LMAO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Personally, I'm 100% against the death penalty because there is always the possibility of an innocent man being executed. To me that is one of the worst things I could ever think of. I also believe in second chance and there are certainly cases where a second chance is due. I don't believe murderers can be rehabilitated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I don't believe murderers can be rehabilitated! I think it is a case by case basis. Ted Bundy is a perfect example of someone rehab wasn't going to change a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 I don't believe murderers can be rehabilitated! They can, and have been. March 18— Paul Krueger was once a professor at Penn State University's prestigious school of education, admired by students and colleagues. "I've had students tell me he was one of the best teachers they'd ever had," says Krueger's former immediate supervisor, Kyle Peck. "There's those teachers that you run across where you just go 'oh, my'. They're just truly gifted," said Mary Beth Morrison, another colleague. "He was one of those teachers." Krueger's colleagues use the past tense, but he didn't die. What happened was last year, at the pinnacle of his career, after years of a distinguished academic career, a secret from his past caught up with him. The life that Krueger built for himself fell apart. Krueger shot three men to death when he was 17 years old. When his conviction was revealed to the world, the news effectively ended his career. "When I look back now … it's like it's a different person," he told Primetime's Charlie Gibson with tears in his eyes. A Random Act of Violence Krueger was a troubled kid from a troubled family in California. His path to tragedy began when he fell in with a local boy and they decided to run away together. He packed up the guns he'd been collecting the past few years and stole his mother's car. Link here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I think that the biggest problem in our society as it pertains to criminal justice is that we care too much about the "accused", and not enough about the victim(s) of crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 I think that the biggest problem in our society as it pertains to criminal justice is that we care too much about the "accused", and not enough about the victim(s) of crimes. What more would you like to do for the victim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 They can, and have been. Link here The guy was still a murderer and a scumbag. He needs to pay his debt to society. It doesn't matter how great a teacher he may have been. BTW, he wasn't necessarily rehabilitated, he was lying for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 What more would you like to do for the victim? It's not necessarily about that. What I'd like to see is if you are sent to prison for a felony, you live in a cell, period. No exercise time. No tv. No recreation time. 3 meals a day in the cell. No interaction with other inmates. If you want to act/live like a wild animal, you should be treated like one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 What more would you like to do for the victim? You can't possibly think the justice system does the most it can for victims, can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 The guy was still a murderer and a scumbag. He needs to pay his debt to society. It doesn't matter how great a teacher he may have been. BTW, he wasn't necessarily rehabilitated, he was lying for years. He did pay his debt. He was a model prisoner, and led an exemplary life after getting paroled. You even say he *was* a murderer and scumbag. I assume that means he isn't now. He did not tell employers about his murder conviction so that he could be gainfully employed. I wonder if he would have led such a respectable life after parole if he was denied employment and the means to raise his family. Can every murderer be rehabilitated? I don't think so. Some can. I always think those crimes if passion murders, someone finds out his wife is having an affair, etc. can be rehabilitated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 You can't possibly think the justice system does the most it can for victims, can you? Look what the system did for Kobe's accuser...it made her look like a whore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 You can't possibly think the justice system does the most it can for victims, can you? No. But I am wondering what elese we should do? Give them more money? Counseling? What else should society do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 No. But I am wondering what elese we should do? Give them more money? Counseling? What else should society do? I don't know what society can do, but the justice system could quit bending over backwards for the accused and :fyou the victims. There was a line on 'Law & Order' a few years back that says much: "The justice system is bending so far back for the accused that it is in danger of being flat on its back." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Look what the system did for Kobe's accuser...it made her look like a whore! Ehem.. I support the little gal.. but she did plenty to encourage her character assignation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I don't know what society can do, but the justice system could quit bending over backwards for the accused and :fyou the victims. There was a line on 'Law & Order' a few years back that says much: "The justice system is bending so far back for the accused that it is in danger of being flat on its back." Right on!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Ehem.. I support the little gal.. but she did plenty to encourage her character assignation. She shouldn't have had to testify at all to her past "transgressions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Not being a lawyer, I don't know how else one could defend an accused rapist who has admitted to sex with the 'victim.' When I see this type of defense, though, I have to admit it makes me question the 'innocence' of their client. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 He did pay his debt. He was a model prisoner, and led an exemplary life after getting paroled. You even say he *was* a murderer and scumbag. I assume that means he isn't now. He did not tell employers about his murder conviction so that he could be gainfully employed. I wonder if he would have led such a respectable life after parole if he was denied employment and the means to raise his family. Can every murderer be rehabilitated? I don't think so. Some can. I always think those crimes if passion murders, someone finds out his wife is having an affair, etc. can be rehabilitated. Did anyone consider the families of his victims? How do you think they would have felt knowing that the person who murderered their family members is (was) allowed to function in society? Maybe by lying about his past, he denied a position to someone else who could have been an excellant professor and NOT have been a murderer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Not being a lawyer, I don't know how else one could defend an accused rapist who has admitted to sex with the 'victim.' When I see this type of defense, though, I have to admit it makes me question the 'innocence' of their client. Remember, Kobe's accuser could be the "town pump", she may have been with all of Colorado; it doesn't matter. If she said "no" to Kobe, she was raped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 She shouldn't have had to testify at all to her past "transgressions". Nope, she shouldn't. She also should not have shown up to a rape exam with others sperm on her body.. or gone to a party 2 weeks after the "incident" and talked about Kobe's "size". Or been caught at a bar in Canada letting a stranger lick salt for a tequila shot off her chest... :headshake I don't care if this girl screwed all of Eagle, Colorado the day BEFORE she was "supposedly" attacked.. but her actions after the incident have been, at the very least, questionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 A. Innocent until proven guilty. B. Just because someone is accused of a crime, doesn't mean they forfeit their rights. C. Just because someone is innocent doesn't mean they should forfeit their rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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