ESPN's Power Alley

[rafacosta]

Twins in front of us 14 and the Royals 17. SCrubbies 5 :puke .

 

Aaron Miles mentioned in the Rockies Rogers' comments as possible ROY.

 

Yeah, who chose this ranking was Phil Rogers.

 

Link

[southsider2k5]

Why is the middle of the pack so hard to believe... I'd buy that.

[israel4ever]

Why is the middle of the pack so hard to believe... I'd buy that.

The question is, why are the cubs #1?

 

Their team defense is horrid. Especially at LF, RF, C, 2B, and 3B. Their "ace" is hurt, Clement isn't 100%. They strike out too much. They have no lead off hitter. Their "genius" manager has no idea how to handle a pitching staff. Their CF is a "health-question mark".

 

I say they will finish in 3rd place, and will not make the playoffs.

 

:fthecubs

[SoxAce]

The top 10 isn't all that bad but there are some teams that I don't agree with.

[rafacosta]

The question is, why are the cubs #1?

 

Their team defense is horrid. Especially at LF, RF, C, 2B, and 3B. Their "ace" is hurt, Clement isn't 100%. They strike out too much. They have no lead off hitter. Their "genius" manager has no idea how to handle a pitching staff. Their CF is a "health-question mark".

 

I say they will finish in 3rd place, and will not make the playoffs.

 

:fthecubs

The national sports mags want to sell, so they speculate the Cubs as the potential winner.

[witesoxfan]

The question is, why are the cubs #1?

 

Their team defense is horrid. Especially at LF, RF, C, 2B, and 3B. Their "ace" is hurt, Clement isn't 100%. They strike out too much. They have no lead off hitter. Their "genius" manager has no idea how to handle a pitching staff. Their CF is a "health-question mark".

 

I say they will finish in 3rd place, and will not make the playoffs.

 

:fthecubs

Here's a damn good question...what makes you think Rogers has the Cubs listed as #1? For that matter, what makes you think Rogers has the Cubs listed as the best team in the NL Central? The Cubs are at #5, the Astros at #3.

 

The defense is not "horrid"...it is probably not real good, but not terrible by any means. Their ace is hurt, and I don't know why you put double quotes around ace...Prior is quite possibly the best pitcher in the league(and I think he is). Clement isn't 100%...that's like us not having Wright at 100%. Big f***ing deal.

 

They do not strike out too much(though they do strike out a lot). Striking out isn't that big of a deal anyways, so long as you put the ball in play most of the time. The Yankees strike out probably 1000-1100 times a year, yet they remain the best offense in the league. What does that say about K's? And Patterson is not a health question mark. I would take Patterson over Rowand in a heartbeat, even with Patterson's surgically repaired torn ACL. He looked fine in spring training.

 

About their genius manager not knowing how to handle a pitching staff...I'm still waiting on an answer to my question to everyone in general...how many arms has Dusty Baker ruined(and I'm focusing on mainly starters...I realize Robb Nen, but Nen isn't a starter)?

 

 

What I am saying by this is that you can hate the Cubs all you want...just do not look at them objectively. I dislike the Cubs, but I do realize they have a damn good chance at being pretty good this year. If they do go to the playoffs, win the NLDS, NLCS, and World Series, it will not surprise me in the least. In fact, nothing they do will surprise me

[SoxAce]

I would take Patterson over Rowand in a heartbeat, even with Patterson's surgically repaired torn ACL.

Your joking right?! The only advantage I see Patterson over Rowand is that he's left handed. They are both pretty much the same age ( A-Row 26yrs. C.Pat 25yrs.) Patterson strikesout entirely too much and is not as patient as Rowand. Even though Patterson might be faster than A-Row, Rowand can still be very speedy. If Ozzie lets him loose this year, I expect Rowand with at least 15-20 SB. Both are aso capible to hit .300 if they play the entire season something Rowand nor Patterson haven't done yet. I would definitely take Rowand over Patterson. Now if you were talking about Konerko and D.Lee...that's another story.

[upnorthsox]

Not sure whats wrong with 15th, until we get some of our ????? answered that just about where we belong. Our O is a little undervalued but after last season that's understandable. Our top 3 is right there but with our 4 and 5 and our BP ????? there's no way we deserve to sniff the top 10. If we bust out in April we'll jump quite a bit I'm sure but til/if then I agree with Frank and say let people underestimate us.

[upnorthsox]

Have never understood the obsession with SO's, OPS is still the most relevent offensive stat and K's have no bearing on that whatsoever.

[DonkeyKongerko]

Have never understood the obsession with SO's, OPS is still the most relevent offensive stat and K's have no bearing on that whatsoever.

No bearing? Please elaborate.

[upnorthsox]

No bearing?  Please elaborate.

Sure, if you have a .400 OBP that means your making an out 60 % of the time, does it matter if that 60% is FO's, GO's, or SO's? It's still an out. You can however increase your slg% by taking bigger hacks, if increasing your slg% also increases your SO's over GO's who cares.

[israel4ever]

Here's a damn good question...what makes you think Rogers has the Cubs listed as #1?  For that matter, what makes you think Rogers has the Cubs listed as the best team in the NL Central?  The Cubs are at #5, the Astros at #3. 

 

The defense is not "horrid"...it is probably not real good, but not terrible by any means.  Their ace is hurt, and I don't know why you put double quotes around ace...Prior is quite possibly the best pitcher in the league(and I think he is).  Clement isn't 100%...that's like us not having Wright at 100%.  Big f***ing deal.

 

They do not strike out too much(though they do strike out a lot).  Striking out isn't that big of a deal anyways, so long as you put the ball in play most of the time.  The Yankees strike out probably 1000-1100 times a year, yet they remain the best offense in the league.  What does that say about K's?  And Patterson is not a health question mark.  I would take Patterson over Rowand in a heartbeat, even with Patterson's surgically repaired torn ACL.  He looked fine in spring training.

 

About their genius manager not knowing how to handle a pitching staff...I'm still waiting on an answer to my question to everyone in general...how many arms has Dusty Baker ruined(and I'm focusing on mainly starters...I realize Robb Nen, but Nen isn't a starter)?

 

 

What I am saying by this is that you can hate the Cubs all you want...just do not look at them objectively.  I dislike the Cubs, but I do realize they have a damn good chance at being pretty good this year.  If they do go to the playoffs, win the NLDS, NLCS, and World Series, it will not surprise me in the least.  In fact, nothing they do will surprise me

Jack McKeon outmanaged the hell out of Dusty. If Dusty knew how to handle a pitching staff, the cubs would have been in the Series last year. He had Clement and Zambrano ready in the Pen...never thought to use 'em!

 

Maybe he was saving them for Games 8 and 9?!

[hammerhead johnson]

I would definitely take Rowand over Patterson.

And you'd get fired with the quickness.

 

Patterson is clearly a superstar in the making. Wasn't he hitting like .330 through the all star break last year, before he got hurt?

 

I'm just saying, don't be surprised when he hits .300+ with 30 HR and 30 SB this year.

[bmags]

I like Rowand because he gets down and dirty...(no sexual innuendos please)

 

but Patterson is clearly more talented and will have a pretty good year i'd imagine...i wonder if his leg slowed him down a bit though..

[DonkeyKongerko]

Sure, if you have a .400 OBP that means your making an out 60 % of the time, does it matter if that 60% is FO's, GO's, or SO's? It's still an out. You can however increase your slg% by taking bigger hacks, if increasing your slg% also increases your SO's over GO's who cares.

Ground outs and flyouts can also advance runners and are not counted in the SF category of OBP and OPS. This makes them better than strikeouts.

[TLAK]

Patterson is clearly a superstar in the making.  Wasn't he hitting like .330 through the all star break last year, before he got hurt? 

 

I'm just saying, don't be surprised when he hits .300+ with 30 HR and 30 SB this year.

 

No wonder you guys are in love with the Gubs, you remember everybody hitting 30 points higher than they really did. He hit .298, not .330. He had a hot start but was was going down the tubes and only saved his numbers by getting hurt.

 

Lets talk about his fielding, FP .975 vs the league average of .988. Range f was 1.96 vs 2.50 for the league. Compare to Aaron Rowands 1.000 and 2.54 as a late inning replacement.

 

Superstar in the making? Maybe in Iowa.

[knightni]

Unfortunately, when it comes to the Sox.. the media wants proof of success as opposed to the Sawks, Yankmees and Flubs.

[SoxAce]

No wonder you guys are in love with the Gubs, you remember everybody hitting 30 points higher than they really did.  He hit .298, not .330.  He had a hot start but was was going down the tubes and only saved his numbers by getting hurt. 

 

Lets talk about his fielding, FP .975 vs the league average of .988.  Range f was 1.96 vs 2.50 for the league.  Compare to Aaron Rowands 1.000 and 2.54 as a late inning replacement.

 

Superstar in the making?  Maybe in Iowa.

Thank you!!!!

[hammerhead johnson]

No wonder you guys are in love with the Gubs, you remember everybody hitting 30 points higher than they really did.  He hit .298, not .330.  He had a hot start but was was going down the tubes and only saved his numbers by getting hurt. 

 

Lets talk about his fielding, FP .975 vs the league average of .988.  Range f was 1.96 vs 2.50 for the league.  Compare to Aaron Rowands 1.000 and 2.54 as a late inning replacement.

 

Superstar in the making?  Maybe in Iowa.

He was hitting close to .320 with 11 HR and 42 RBI through the end of May. He literally saved that team in the first 1/3 of the season, as nobody else was doing jack s***, particularly Sosa.

 

He had a bad month in June. Big f***ing deal. Magglio Ordonez had a couple bad months last year. Everyone has bad months.

 

I have a problem with Cubs fans, but not with the actual players on their team. If Patterson was on the Sox and Rowand was on the Cubs, you'd be arguing against Rowand right now. I don't know about you, but that doesn't make much sense from where I'm sitting.

[TLAK]

He had a bad month in June.  Big f***ing deal.  Magglio Ordonez had a couple bad months last year.  Everyone has bad months. 

 

I have a problem with Cubs fans, but not with the actual players on their team.  If Patterson was on the Sox and Rowand was on the Cubs, you'd be arguing against Rowand right now.  I don't know about you, but that doesn't make much sense from where I'm sitting.

Hammer, my friend, you got to start looking things up before you make some of these statements. I guess Magg's .281 in June is one of his couple of bad months. Or perhaps July when he hit freakin .429. While we're at it Maggs had 73 Ks in 606 AB. Corey had 77 in 323 AB.

 

I'll grant you that if Rowand and Patterson switched places I'd try to argue against Aaron, but since I wouldn't have a leg to stand on (no santo pun) I'd keep my mouth shut.

[witesoxfan]

Your joking right?! The only advantage I see Patterson over Rowand is that he's left handed. They are both pretty much the same age ( A-Row 26yrs. C.Pat 25yrs.) Patterson strikesout entirely too much and is not as patient as Rowand. Even though Patterson might be faster than A-Row, Rowand can still be very speedy. If Ozzie lets him loose this year, I expect Rowand with at least 15-20 SB. Both are aso capible to hit .300 if they play the entire season something Rowand nor Patterson haven't done yet. I would definitely take Rowand over Patterson. Now if you were talking about Konerko and D.Lee...that's another story.

As explained by UNS, K's are overrated. Jim Thome strikes out 180 times a year, but he also hits 50 homers a year. You going to tell me you are not going to take him because he strikes out a lot?

 

Rowand isn't as patient at the plate as you imply, considering that he has drawn 34 walks in his career(as a note, he has 582 official at-bats). He is more patient than Patterson, but not by much.

 

Regarding speed, Patterson can fly, Rowand can not. End of story.

 

Just to make it clear, SBs are not a measure of speed. Cristian Guzman is one of the fastest guys in the league, and he has stolen a combined 30 bases over the past two seasons(though he has 92 overall in his career...maybe Gardenhire does not run as much as Kelly did?), while he has been caught 22 times in that stretch, so if you are scoring at home, he is 30 of 52, or a pitiful 57.7% in successful steals. Meanwhile, Paul O'Neill, in his final season with the Yankees in 2001, stole 22 bases and was caught only 3 times. Does that mean that O'Neill got faster as he got older, and he got so fast that he become faster than Cristian Guzman? I think not. I'm sure if I read a pitcher correctly and took off on an offspeed pitch enough times that I could steal 15-20 bases too. Anybody that has a little speed can do it.

 

Why do you say Patterson has not played a full season? Doesn't his 2002 campaign of 153 games and 592 at-bats count?

 

If I had to take a guess, and both Rowand and Patterson were available at this stage of their careers for the same price and you had the choice of taking either of them, and you took Rowand, you would be canned on the spot. I could very easily see Corey Patterson turning into a Carlos Beltran type player, and I would guess that at the very least a left-handed version of Reggie Sanders(who is valuable if you have them). I don't even see Rowand turning into that. I could maybe see Rowand turning into a right-handed Darin Erstad, though I don't think he would ever have a season where he got 240 hits. I would say that he could be a Felipe Alou-like player too if he turns into a hell of a player damn quickly. He could also be a Jeff Abbott his whole career, and never become a great hitter, and only be a 4th OFer.

 

I still take Patterson over Rowand in a second.

[rafacosta]

I could very easily see Corey Patterson turning into a Carlos Beltran type player,

 

That´s too much! Cmon...

[TLAK]

As explained by UNS, K's are overrated. Jim Thome strikes out 180 times a year, but he also hits 50 homers a year. You going to tell me you are not going to take him because he strikes out a lot?

True, but Patterson in 2002 struck out 142 times and hit 14 HRs. Different ratio.

 

Regarding speed, Patterson can fly, Rowand can not. End of story.

Again, you are right, but it's also nice to get a jump on a ball, run a direct route, catch the freaking thing and throw the ball to one one your team-mates instead of the stands.

 

I could very easily see Corey Patterson turning into a Carlos Beltran type player, and I would guess that at the very least a left-handed version of Reggie Sanders(who is valuable if you have them).

I see Patterson turning into Caudell Washington in drag, the drag part provided by the C on his hat.

 

I still take Patterson over Rowand in a second.

I respectfully disagree.

[hammerhead johnson]

Hammer, my friend, you got to start looking things up before you make some of these statements.  I guess Magg's .281 in June is one of his couple of  bad months. Or perhaps July when he hit freakin .429.  While we're at it Maggs had 73 Ks in 606 AB.  Corey had 77 in 323 AB.

 

I'll grant you that if Rowand and Patterson switched places I'd try to argue against Aaron, but since I wouldn't have a leg to stand on (no santo pun) I'd keep my mouth shut.

See, but that's the thing. I don't have to waste my time and look up what Magglio did from month to month. I watch these games. He performed poorly over long stretches of time last year.

 

You can at least concede the fact that just about every player has a bad month from time to time unless his name is Pujols, Rodriguez, or Bonds.

 

Patterson hit .269 in June, and on the strength of that, you presumed that he'd have performed just as badly over the rest of the season, correct? Otherwise, you wouldn't have stated that "He only saved his numbers by getting hurt".

 

Now there's a bold prediction, based on jack s***. Go find some evidence to support that statement, and then try to tell me that I need to go "look things up" before I post what I witness on a daily basis during the regular season. I had Patterson on my fantasy squad last year. I know damn well how valuable he was through the first two months. As I stated before, .320/11HR/42RBI through the end of May. We're talking about a player who has yet to peak.

 

Just like witesoxfan said, he's a Carlos Beltran type, minus the gold glove defense and high stolen base percentage rate. And witesoxfan is almost always on point. So there you go.

[hammerhead johnson]

Again, you are right, but it's also nice to get a jump on a ball, run a direct route, catch the freaking thing and throw the ball to one one your team-mates instead of the stands.

You make him out to be a dead beat on defense. He ain't no Andruw Jones, but he's not exactly Carl Everett, either. Give him more credit than that.