Guest JimH Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 I'm talking about him coming in at the start of the 9th. I agree he should have come out after the 1st walk.. but I see no reason why he shouldn't have started the 9th as I have read several folks here say he should not have. Here is why you don't let Politte start the 9th: You start establishing roles right away. Politte was brought in to be the 8th inning guy, Guillen said all spring Koch is the closer. Koch should've started the 9th, and I have no problem with Guillen bringing in Marte if Koch struggled, or to get a matchup. They have a day off tomorrow, there was no reason to not put Koch in there to start the 9th, i.e. Koch was certainly not tired, overextended. Politte did his job in the 8th, fine. Get him out, bring in your closer to start the 9th. No reason to extend Politte, he's had the most success in Philly and Toronto going one inning. So now instead of one guy having his confidence take a shot (Koch - not being brought in to start the 9th on Opening Day) we have three ... Politte, Koch, and Marte. Not to mention Guillen, not to mention the rest of the team. Marte didn't perform, it's that simple. I don't blame Guillen for bringing him in to get a match up. But letting Politte start the 9th, on the first game of the year? When you've got your closer in the bullpen ready to go? No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 can we please not say Corpseball when it isn't needed? Marte didn't get the job done, simple as that. One of the few guys on this team who we know/are expecting to be money this year didn't produce. Outside of him, I was impressed with everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Here is why you don't let Politte start the 9th: You start establishing roles right away. Politte was brought in to be the 8th inning guy, Guillen said all spring Koch is the closer. Koch should've started the 9th, and I have no problem with Guillen bringing in Marte if Koch struggled, or to get a matchup. They have a day off tomorrow, there was no reason to not put Koch in there to start the 9th, i.e. Koch was certainly not tired, overextended. Politte did his job in the 8th, fine. Get him out, bring in your closer to start the 9th. No reason to extend Politte, he's had the most success in Philly and Toronto going one inning. So now instead of one guy having his confidence take a shot (Koch - not being brought in to start the 9th on Opening Day) we have three ... Politte, Koch, and Marte. Not to mention Guillen, not to mention the rest of the team. Marte didn't perform, it's that simple. I don't blame Guillen for bringing him in to get a match up. But letting Politte start the 9th, on the first game of the year? When you've got your closer in the bullpen ready to go? No way. but if a guy is going good a guy is going good. Politte starting the ninth wasn't a problem, him being left in after the walk? that is something you question. outside of that, I'm pleased with how Guillen went about today's game. unfortunately, like every manager, Guillen will be forced to listen to the monday morning quarterback style of White Sox fans. If he pulls Politte, he would be dumb for pulling a hot pitcher and criticized for showing any confidence in Koch. If he keeps him in, you'll get the reaction that has been rampant since the loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Not so, Koch and Marte are his horses, you win or lose by them, especially on opening day. I'd say it would be different if it was a midseason game, but on opening day with a day off next, you don't worry about using one of your best relievers in that game. Plus, Politte is not a reliever that usually goes in 3 different innings. He through 1/1/3 innings and that was the 3rd time he'd had to warm up. I know that doesn't sound like much, but for a reliever I think he was simply gassed and his mechanics suffered because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Not so, Koch and Marte are his horses, you win or lose by them, especially on opening day. I'd say it would be different if it was a midseason game, but on opening day with a day off next, you don't worry about using one of your best relievers in that game. Plus, Politte is not a reliever that usually goes in 3 different innings. He through 1/1/3 innings and that was the 3rd time he'd had to warm up. I know that doesn't sound like much, but for a reliever I think he was simply gassed and his mechanics suffered because of it. I can't say it any better than you did Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Cliff should not have started the 9th,a nd he certainly should have been pulled after the first walk. I completely agree with JimH about trying to keep the relievers in their stated roles - at least for the first game! That said, I really liked what I saw through seven innings before I had to get out to my kid's T-ball game (yes, at least I was spared having to experience first-hand the wheels coming off at the end ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 personally, I would've went with Koch/Marte, but I don't see the prob in leaving in Politte for the first batter ... he was still throwing hard and was going good, he just lost control. Now not that this should've changed Guillen decision, but keep in mind that Randa and Harvey combined are 10-17 versus Marte/Koch, that is if you are going strictly by the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I can't believe someone recycled the term Corpse ball after this game. We had a successful hit and run, a *cough* stolen base and a successful sacrifice bunt. Corpse ball is definitely out of place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSHarris1 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 we'll get'm next time. But we seriously need a good closer. Marte is usually good this was justa bad game for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 can we please not say Corpseball when it isn't needed? Marte didn't get the job done, simple as that. One of the few guys on this team who we know/are expecting to be money this year didn't produce. Outside of him, I was impressed with everything else. agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I can't believe someone recycled the term Corpse ball after this game. We had a successful hit and run, a *cough* stolen base and a successful sacrifice bunt. Corpse ball is definitely out of place. Are you kidding? Sox fans have to be some of the most enviornmentally savvy fans there are. Geesh with all of the crap we recycle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Here is why you don't let Politte start the 9th: You start establishing roles right away. Politte was brought in to be the 8th inning guy, Guillen said all spring Koch is the closer. Koch should've started the 9th, and I have no problem with Guillen bringing in Marte if Koch struggled, or to get a matchup. They have a day off tomorrow, there was no reason to not put Koch in there to start the 9th, i.e. Koch was certainly not tired, overextended. Politte did his job in the 8th, fine. Get him out, bring in your closer to start the 9th. No reason to extend Politte, he's had the most success in Philly and Toronto going one inning. So now instead of one guy having his confidence take a shot (Koch - not being brought in to start the 9th on Opening Day) we have three ... Politte, Koch, and Marte. Not to mention Guillen, not to mention the rest of the team. Marte didn't perform, it's that simple. I don't blame Guillen for bringing him in to get a match up. But letting Politte start the 9th, on the first game of the year? When you've got your closer in the bullpen ready to go? No way. And if Cliff had not walked anyone and K'd em all everyone would be preaching that it was right to leave him in... Bla, bla, bla.... Hindsight is 20/20. The guy was doing fine. I'm sure that Koch would have been MORE than happy with Cliff finishing the game - if he had - than what actually did happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 And if Cliff had not walked anyone and K'd em all everyone would be preaching that it was right to leave him in... Bla, bla, bla.... Hindsight is 20/20. The guy was doing fine. I'm sure that Koch would have been MORE than happy with Cliff finishing the game - if he had - than what actually did happen. I guess we'll agree to disagree. The issue is Politte, his history, and his role. He did his job for 1 1/3 inning, even if he went 2 2/3 and struck out the side in the 9th, there would've been a question of "why overextend him, especially in Game 1?". At least I would've asked the question, not to second guess, but to wonder why you'd pitch a guy whose history is generally one inning of effectiveness, 2 2/3 innings. It doesn't have anything to do with hindsight, I never mentioned hindsight. I did mention keeping guys in their roles ... on GAME ONE ... especially after it's been stated by the manager that Koch is the closer. But whatever. It is one game, and it is over, and they have to dust themselves off. We already know, after one game, that we don't have a defined closer. Unfortunately, that is not a good sign, particularly for a team with playoff aspirations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Agree to disagree.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 agreed! What the hell? Four people have refered to my use of the term corpseball. That's more replies than Young Gun screaming for Marte to "go back to Pittsburgh!" Granted this that this opening day was not an example of "corpseball" (last years was) but in the midst of anger and the crash of soxtalk server I became infuriated with this team and included the word into this thread. Difference between our posts is Marte has been consistent for two years while Sox have consistently been sucking it up during the first month. While this loss may be nothing to fret about, it could be the reemergence of another lackluster April. I'm sorry for whining, but this club needs to stomp KC (another 18-4 score would be great) and then go into NY expecting their bullpen and manager to remain solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 What the hell? Four people have refered to my use of the term corpseball. That's more replies than Young Gun screaming for Marte to "go back to Pittsburgh!" Granted this that this opening day was not an example of "corpseball" (last years was) but in the midst of anger and the crash of soxtalk server I became infuriated with this team and included the word into this thread. Difference between our posts is Marte has been consistent for two years while Sox have consistently been sucking it up during the first month. While this loss may be nothing to fret about, it could be the reemergence of another lackluster April. I'm sorry for whining, but this club needs to stomp KC (another 18-4 score would be great) and then go into NY expecting their bullpen and manager to remain solid. Nothing personal, man. It's just that I'd personally like to forget about the corpseball era and look ahead to some exciting White Sox baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Nothing personal, man. It's just that I'd personally like to forget about the corpseball era and look ahead to some exciting White Sox baseball. AMEN!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 I'm sorry for whining, but this club needs to stomp KC (another 18-4 score would be great) and then go into NY expecting their bullpen and manager to remain solid. YASNY said well about the corpseball thing. I quoted that portion of your post because I do not think you are whining, not at all. Day 1 ended in diaster when we were 2 outs away and that has us all juiced in a way we didn't want and in a way that frightens us, bullpen failure. You write baseball well, you are not whining, I appreciate your baseball posts and your insights and I really hope we get the stomping of KC you want - I agree it would do a world of good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 YASNY said well about the corpseball thing. I quoted that portion of your post because I do not think you are whining, not at all. Day 1 ended in diaster when we were 2 outs away and that has us all juiced in a way we didn't want and in a way that frightens us, bullpen failure. You wrote baseball well, you are not whining, I appreciate your baseball posts and your insights and I really hope we get the stomping of KC you want - I agree it would do a world of good. I noticed you limited that compliment to my baseball posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 The thing that sucks worse than the loss is the fact we had to wait 2 days for the Sox to play again to be able to get rid of this bad loss. Sheesh first game of the season then take the next day off...how stupid is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I think they schedule that way so as many openers as possible get as much attention as possible. Just a theory on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 The thing that sucks worse than the loss is the fact we had to wait 2 days for the Sox to play again to be able to get rid of this bad loss. Sheesh first game of the season then take the next day off...how stupid is that? that's been a baseball trend for a whlle, in case the opener gets weathered out, still gets your opener in with everyone in town without a later in the season make up screwing up the schedules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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