beck72 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Of course Ozzie's moves in the 9th will be second guessed. It's the nature of managing a major league club. My first reaction was Politte shouldn't have started the 9th, after already pitching 1 1/3 innings. After a night's sleep, though, I know it's not that unusual for managers to have relievers go 2+ innings. Guys like LaTroy Hawkins, Foulke, and Mariano Rivera often go 2+ innings. [Espec. for big games and when there are days off coming up]. It didn't work out for Guillen and Politte. [it may be too early in the season to have bullpen guys stretch out, but I can see going with whoever is hot for 2 innings later in the year when they're loose] Koch starting the 9th wouldn't have been a bad idea, with RH hitters Randa and Harvey coming up. But what's done is done. A loss like this hurts. But I don't think Ozzie will let it affect this team like it would have stayed and lingered with last year's team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSHarris1 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Pitching has always been a problem with the sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 Pitching has always been a problem with the sox. While the Sox don't have a staff ready for the World Series, it's serviceable enough to stay within striking distance of 1st by the trading deadline. Then they can add an arm or two for the playoff push. Until then, Guillen just has to find some bullpen guys he can rely on, through trial and error. Koch did look better. Even the pitch to Santiago was inside on the hands, but a strike. Only Marte looked horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 good to see you posting here Beck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Pitching has always been a problem with the sox. And our staff ERA of about 3.75 or so last year was what killed us in the end. Pitching has not ALWAYS been the problem. From 2000-2004(including the one game this year), pitching has been a problem the majority of the time. However, saying pitching has always been the problem is like saying the Diamondbacks have never had enough pitching to win the World Series. If I said that, you would laugh at me, because the DBacks did win it all in 2001, and it was almost solely because of their pitching that they won too. However, they apparently did not have enough pitching to win in 00, and not enough in 02, and not enough in 03, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 This is about second guessing! It's about managing a F'g MLB team! Your job as a mgr is to manage your bullpen, rotation, & lineup so that the ODDS are in your favor to win the game! Opening the F'g 9th with Politte where the KC lineup has a 1000+ OPS vs is F"g stupid. You got away with an inning & 2/3rds based on his strong ST performance. With a 7-3 lead it's a reasonable gamble in the 7th & 8th innings. But not in the 9th because now guys have seen him more than once! Every F'g MGR knows this! This aint' F"g PONY League! Opening the F'g 9th with Koch or Marte is an equally bad decision. The KC lineup had equal success against both in past yrs (843-44 OPS vs). These are the last guys you want facing that particular lineup. He should have opened the 9th with Neil Cotts. He's groomed to be a starter & a solid Lefty after a right hander is a nice mix. From Cotts he could have gone to Jackson, Adkins, or Takatsu. Both Jackson & Adkins have past success against this KC lineup (450-509 OPS vs). And they've never seen Takatsu. That's what a MANAGER is supposed to do. MANAGING a game so that the %'s work in his favor. Ozzie didn't do that on Monday. That's why this LOSS is pinned on his SHOULDERs. If he had played the %'s & they still lose then the LOSS is pinned on the players. That's the way it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I still think he opened the 9th wrong, but after that .. Playing the %'s: Stairs vs RH : 934 OPS Stairs vs LH : 667 OPS Stairs vs Koch : 1 for 3, 667 OPS Lopez (750 vs RH, 725 vs LH) Koch vs Stairs, 1 out, ron, 1, 2 ... hmmm .. playing the %'s I bring in a lefty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 But not in the 9th because now guys have seen him more than once! Ummmm. Who, exactly, did Politte face twice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 good to see you posting here Beck! Good to be here. MLB.com isn't what it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 He should have opened the 9th with Neil Cotts. No way should he have opened the 9th with Cotts. Two RH hitters were due up--Randa and Harvey--both with HR power. A veteran RH guy like Mike Jackson or Takatsu would have made sense. Yet both were shaky in the spring. Adkins and Politte were the guys throwing the best in spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Good to be here. MLB.com isn't what it used to be. not at all like it once was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 not at all like it once was Even though I wasn't a "grizzled veteran" there by any means, the garbage there was unbearable. Plus, the graphics here are better. And if I wanted to curse, I'd at least have the option. How are the posts on politics here? Center-left, center-right, center? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Ummmm. Who, exactly, did Politte face twice? Someone on another board posted "And stupid Ozzie for leaving Marte in after he gave up the 2nd homer..." Ehem.. the game was over after the 2nd homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Even though I wasn't a "grizzled veteran" there by any means, the garbage there was unbearable. Plus, the graphics here are better. And if I wanted to curse, I'd at least have the option. How are the posts on politics here? Center-left, center-right, center? the political discussions take place in the sex, lies, and politics forum You certainly get more intelligent discussions here, non of the troll like stuff from cary, et al; the political stuff can be heated at times but everyone stays friends or at least not enemies. A lot of the folks are friends though dispite differences. You get a lot of well-informed and documented things from all sides. And from all sides is about the way it is. I think people would give you different opinions on where most of soxtalk is politcally, or at elast those who post politically - the conservatives think the liberals are shouting them down and they are valiant witnesses against the flood and the liberals think the conservatives outnumber them and they are valiant witnesses against the flood. Of course you are one of the good guys so I encourage you to jump right in or whenever you are ready. Unlike mlb the opinions given are generally researched and thought through. Graphics are cool here, we have real genuis graphics people who do some grteat stuff. And f*** yeah you can swear if you want - my own opinion is better in the threads than in the thread titles but that is just me. We have no trolls here. They get booted immediately. That makes a huge difference. We also have some players who post and some folks with good knowledge and good connections including from both the big team and the minors so the information here is pretty astounding at times. If it is happening, liable to hear it here first. The analysis and the knowledge of the game places soxtalk way, way, way beyond mlb. If you like minor leagues, futuresox.com (linked at the top of the main page) is incredible. Again, beck, it is so good to see you here. Always enjoyed your stuff at mlb and so glad you are here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofIChiSox Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I personally wish that he would have busted out Takatsu, I know we all want to see what this guy can do and that KC could definitely have been thrown for a loop. Oh well, on to today's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 No way should he have opened the 9th with Cotts. Two RH hitters were due up--Randa and Harvey--both with HR power. A veteran RH guy like Mike Jackson or Takatsu would have made sense. Yet both were shaky in the spring. Adkins and Politte were the guys throwing the best in spring. I like the idea of building a future starter on this team by grooming him in the closer position. Especially with a 4 run lead in the 9th. Cotts is only in the bull pen right now because Schow has more yrs of experience in the majors. It's a not a decision based on talent but rather experience. We don't have a closer & with a 4 run lead it's not a save situation unless someone gets on. Cotts is too green in the majors to really look at any stats, but he did dominate in the minors & had a pretty good spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Takatsu would have been great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted April 8, 2004 Author Share Posted April 8, 2004 I like the idea of building a future starter on this team by grooming him in the closer position. I agree pitching a future starter in the bullpen is a good idea. But not in the high wire position as closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 A "closer" should not have been needed in that situation. If someone would have pitched a 3-up 3-down inning, a save would not have been awarded (unless it was Politte). Any pitcher should have been able to get 3 outs without giving up 4 runs. Oh well ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.