Controlled Chaos Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 If he is the man....then let's start over. Ozzie needs to tell him...the ball is yours when the game is on the line and that's that. All the pressure falls squarely on your shoulders. I think Koch needs to know he is the man....he can't have the concern of being yanked out of the game floating thru his head when he pitches. That's what happened last year and he definitely did not improve, as we all know. I don't blame Ozzie for the loss at all. Marte needed to get the job done, but I would like Ozzie to lay it on the line now. Tell Koch we are sticking with him now no matter what. Tell him he controls his own destiny. If Koch doesn't work out and he blows up....then fine...experiment over...he's done...but let's give him at least 10 good quality save chances where he doesn't have to worry about coming out. If it doesn't work then let him know...we are goin closer by committee. 10 games ain't gonna break us, but what it could do, is make us... If Koch can get his confidence back where he knows he is the s*** and nobody is gonna stop him then we will be all right. If he stays like this...too many things float in his head. Come on Billy!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Koch doesn't have it anymore and I think that is pretty obvious by those who saw him in spring training and all of last season. Mark my words and I'd be glad to eat crow on this, Koch is going to get rocked this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 Dude you're killing me....I think we need Koch.... When you say he's done it makes me think the season is done....and I'mnot ready to do that just yet... He will overcome...the talent is still there and the desire is still there... How would you like your crow served? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I on the other hand still thinks that Koch can get it done. He didn't look bad at all yesterday. The hit by Santiago was one where an experienced batter, and a catcher who had been in that situation dozens of times with is own pitchers no less, had a darn good idea what was cooking between Koch and Alomar. He cheated and got enough of the ball to get the hit. He showed his experience and played the hunch and it paid off for the Royals. Otherwise Koch showed a great cutter and hit 97 MPH on the radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Koch doesn't have it anymore and I think that is pretty obvious by those who saw him in spring training and all of last season. Mark my words and I'd be glad to eat crow on this, Koch is going to get rocked this year. Did you see the game yesterday? Koch is not done! He had good stuff. If I hadn't seen the game I would have been all for pulling him, but I SAW it. I think he's got his velocity back. He had movement on his fastball and had better control than he did all last year. He'll have 30+ saves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 Whew, I'm glad I'm not alone. I was gettin worried there. I think Koch can get to 30-35 saves if we stick with him and let him know he is the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 If you didnt see that Koch yesterday was a 100% different pitcher than last year than you just have it in for the guy. From his 97mph fastball that I never once saw last year, I think his arm was legitimately hurting or just tired and he didnt want to seem like a whiner. Because yesterdays Billy Koch was not the player was saw last year at all. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 If you didnt see that Koch yesterday was a 100% different pitcher than last year than you just have it in for the guy. From his 97mph fastball that I never once saw last year, I think his arm was legitimately hurting or just tired and he didnt want to seem like a whiner. Because yesterdays Billy Koch was not the player was saw last year at all. SB Yep! He looked like a stud yesterday. In his pitches as well as in his demeanor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I'd like to share your optimism but I can't. Looking at Koch's numbers, where do you find hope? 2K1: 4.50 era, opp (265 a, 743 ops, 666 vs LH, 829 vs RH) There was hope 'cause of his 666 vs LH. 2K2: 3.27 era, opp (214 a, 617 ops, 570 vs RH, 675 vs LH) How can any one fault Kenny for the trade based on these numbers? Grant it there were rumors Kenny should have checked out near the end, but these numbers show little weakness. 2K3: 5.77 era, opp (281 a, 865 ops, 851 vs RH, 878 vs LH) That's a line of no hope. He did a little better in the Spring, but that just probably places him in the middle of the pack as a closer in the league. Still a far stretch from the good part of the pack. Koch needs devine intervention to return to his 2K2 form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Koch needs devine intervention to return to his 2K2 form. he's got it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I'd like to share your optimism but I can't. Looking at Koch's numbers, where do you find hope? 2K1: 4.50 era, opp (265 a, 743 ops, 666 vs LH, 829 vs RH) There was hope 'cause of his 666 vs LH. 2K2: 3.27 era, opp (214 a, 617 ops, 570 vs RH, 675 vs LH) How can any one fault Kenny for the trade based on these numbers? Grant it there were rumors Kenny should have checked out near the end, but these numbers show little weakness. 2K3: 5.77 era, opp (281 a, 865 ops, 851 vs RH, 878 vs LH) That's a line of no hope. He did a little better in the Spring, but that just probably places him in the middle of the pack as a closer in the league. Still a far stretch from the good part of the pack. Koch needs devine intervention to return to his 2K2 form. It's not impossible. Thomas did it in 2000 after a couple bad years. One year of bad numbers doesn't mean that his career is over, does it? Mark my words...30+ saves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Did you see the game yesterday? Koch is not done! He had good stuff. If I hadn't seen the game I would have been all for pulling him, but I SAW it. I think he's got his velocity back. He had movement on his fastball and had better control than he did all last year. He'll have 30+ saves! I saw the game....You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. And apparently the Sox feel the same about the guy, otherwise they would have kept him in to finish the job yesterday and that clearly didn't happen. If you truly believe Koch is going to save 30+ games, that's your problem... :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I saw the game....You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. And apparently the Sox feel the same about the guy, otherwise they would have kept him in to finish the job yesterday and that clearly didn't happen. If you truly believe Koch is going to save 30+ games, that's your problem... :headshake I agree. I saw enough last year, and during spring training to know he doesn't have much. The fact that Guillen pulled him with the Sox leading by 3 speaks volumes about what he and the organization really feel about Koch. If he's truly the closer, which Ozzie says he is, why do they yank him in that situation? You knew Marte would face a righty, so it isn't for the lefty/righty match-up. Hopefully, Marte's average spring and horrible start aren't the signs of what's to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Ozzie also let Politte walk 2 batters before pulling him, then kept Koch in to face a lefty, then pulled Koch to face another left. If anything there was absolutely no consistency in that inning so to try and come up with some sort of grand scheme is pretty ridiculous. Unless you think in the future that they are going to let a reliefman walk the first batter in the 9th and then walk the second batter before you are going to pull him, I bet Koch, Marte blow a ton of save chances. Its much easier to come into the game when no one is on then when the crowd is already getting riled up. Hate Koch but he looked good, and when he puts up triple digits on the gun, hes going to be a great combo with Marte. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I could only "listen" to the game on the internet, and after the first guy or two got on, I didn't think we had a prayer to get out of the inning. If we had had a ten run lead, we would have blown it. The first out in the ninth is super important for the reliever, and Ozzie has to find someone who can get that out. Otherwise we will be 0-6 when we come home, and I think the Sox' psyche is too fragile to survive it. We gagged last year in KC, and it was deja vu all over again. Next game is a big game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 What the hell...how can you people write off Koch because he gave up a fisted double to score a run that wasnt his responsibility. A Billy Koch that can throw 97, and get it inside on left handed hitters, is a helluva lot better than the Billy Koch of 2003. Damnit, I find it so funny that no one bothers to b**** and whine about the fact that Damaso Marte sucked f***ing balls yesterday. I guess hating Koch and being an antagonist is still the cool thing to do on Soxtalk. Good evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Hey Cap, you konw I agree with you. I'm not going to write off any player after one outing, well except Jose Paniagua Koch looked a lot better in his one game then he ever did last year. I'm cautiously optimistic. Either way, I'm feeling a little better when I think of him coming back to his old form, then I ever did last year. I sure hope he could get rolling, cause if he does, it would be HUGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 koch is thru................ plain and simple. will someone pls tell me, on the radar gun, if anyone saw the game, what was his fastball clocking??????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 What the hell...how can you people write off Koch because he gave up a fisted double to score a run that wasnt his responsibility. A Billy Koch that can throw 97, and get it inside on left handed hitters, is a helluva lot better than the Billy Koch of 2003. Damnit, I find it so funny that no one bothers to b**** and whine about the fact that Damaso Marte sucked f***ing balls yesterday. I guess hating Koch and being an antagonist is still the cool thing to do on Soxtalk. Good evening. I agree, that game was definitely Damaso's fault, but he'll be fine, he'll get locked in, in a week or two and be his old self, I really liked the way koch looked yesterday, hopefully he'll get back to his form of 2 years, cause like jas said that would be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 koch is thru................ plain and simple. will someone pls tell me, on the radar gun, if anyone saw the game, what was his fastball clocking??????????? um...97. If someone who throws 97 is "thru", our whole pitching staff is toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 um...97. If someone who throws 97 is "thru", our whole pitching staff is toast. ok, good point................... then rocker should still be pitching right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 ok, good point................... then rocker should still be pitching right. John Rocker= biggest headcase in baseball of his time. His problems are FAR from just being baseball concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 John Rocker= biggest headcase in baseball of his time. His problems are FAR from just being baseball concerned. hey you were the one who was basing a pitcher performance on speed, not i. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Old Socks made a great point. We were toast when Cliff walked two guys to start the ninth. Game over. The choke was on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Old Socks made a great point. We were toast when Cliff walked two guys to start the ninth. Game over. The choke was on. Hey Greg...you happen to go to Kauffman yesterday? Place really sounded like it was buzzing, which is great to see, considering how far Royals baseball has gone since the George Brett does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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