First basemen

[Bighurt52235]

Who would you rather have? I think that the only ones I would take are Jason Giambi, Jim Thome, and maybe Delgado or Helton. We do in fact have a pretty good first basemen. I hope he stays for a long time.

[BrandoFan]

If it's 925-950 OPS All-Star Konerko circa first half of '02 who is making under 5 Mill and plays solid defense and is the consciousness of the team, then I would take him over 15-18 Mill a year monsters like Giambi and Thome any day. Especially considering he is only 26 and isn;t in his prime yet.

 

If it's 740 OPS Konerko crica second half last year (granted bla bla bla injurycakes) who is prone to whine to the press and reportedly wants 7-8 mill a year, it's much tougher, you know...

 

I mean, it's one thing for the Mets to be paying 8 Mill to Robbie Alomar (defensve wiz; great baserunner %-wise; best offensive years easily comprable to Konerko's); quite another for the money-tight Sox to be paying basically for his bat; as much as I;ve come to enjoy his fastball-hitting, with Daubach, Borchard and Valenzula/Fernandez in the wings, he might just be expendable, IMO. Unless he builds on his first half of 2002, he is a goner.

 

ETA: Not only is Konerko not in Alomar's league as far as base-running is concerned (hey, Borchard doesn't steal bases either, but at least he doesn't clog them), he is one of the slowest players in all of baseball. He cost us some big runs last year. I can live with that if he is a 950 OPS dude, but in order to do that he needs to improve his eye (30 extra walks a year would do the trick) first and foremost. He certainly has the batspeed to get it done.

[Guest wsc425]

I actually think with a young core of players, TB could be better than mediocre. They got some youth...some pitching...could be a little threat, not to the AL East standings though...The reason I post this is because of Travis Lee.

[Bighurt52235]

That came out of nowhere. I'm more certain that they'll finish last than the Sox will finish first. I think Tampa Bay will never make the playoffs, maybe even finish above .500 ( depending on how long they last)

[Kempers]

I actually think with a young core of players, TB could be better than mediocre. They got some youth...some pitching...could be a little threat, not to the AL East standings though...The reason I post this is because of Travis Lee.

BETTER than MEDIORCRE? What is this pitching you speak of that they have? And Travis Lee has consistently been one of the worst first basemen in all of baseball for the last 5 years or so.

[Guest wsc425]

I actually think with a young core of players, TB could be better than mediocre. They got some youth...some pitching...could be a little threat, not to the AL East standings though...The reason I post this is because of Travis Lee.

BETTER than MEDIORCRE? What is this pitching you speak of that they have? And Travis Lee has consistently been one of the worst first basemen in all of baseball for the last 5 years or so.

I think with the young core, something may happen, u know, 65 wins...cubs style?

[Bighurt52235]

65 sounds about right, but definitely no more than 70.

[CSF]

Who would you rather have?    I think that the only ones I would take are Jason Giambi, Jim Thome, and maybe Delgado or Helton.  We do in fact have a pretty good first basemen. I hope he stays for a long time.

I wouldn't take any of them over Paulie. Giambi plays in a stadium with a short porch so he'll obtain plenty of cheapies over the course of his career with the Yankees. Delgado is on the decline, Helton's numbers (like every other player to play there) are inflated in air thin Coors Field. Thome hits for monster power, but the average isn't there. Plus Cleveland has a short porch too, but that doesn't count because alot of Thome's shots went to CF which is much deeper. Still, wouldn't take him over Konerko. And I'd take Brian Daubach over that piece of s*** Mientkiewicz, (he's going to wind up eating his words over those stupid comments). But overall, Konerko is emerging as the best 1B in the AL (and yes, that includes Giambi).

[cwsox]

I wouldn't take any of them over Paulie.

Thank you.

 

We have PK. We have Frank. Now we have Daubach, who plays first. How many do we need? I don't sit around thinking everyone on every other team is better than what we have (I call that Sox Unhappy Coveting Syndrome, SUCS for short).

 

Who would I want more than Paulie? No one.

[BrandoFan]

Thome hits for monster power, but the average isn't there

 

OPS (especially with RISP) is the best way to measure a player's offensive worth, not average or homers. I am sorry but Thome's 7-year OPS average is roughly a 1000 where as Paulie's 4 years average is 830. Even last year. which was Paulie's 2nd best, Thome beat him by a WHOPPING 300 OPS points which is more than TWICE the difference between Valetin and Clayton. Stadium arguements are moot because Thome drives them out ANYWHERE and because the Cell is a bonafied hitter's park with fences brought in.

 

If you want to make an arguement that Paullie is NOT at his prime yet and that he is three times as cheap (Sox are strapped for cash) as the Sox killer Thome- fine...It's just that to unequivocally say that Konerko is better is short-sighted if not disingenuous. He isn't even close yet IMO.

 

Ditto Giambi. I even like Helton much better than Paulie at this point. Palmeiro at 38 is twice the 1bman Paulie is to be frank.

 

My two cents.

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

not that i want to get rid of paulie or anything like that but... if i had to have another guy there to replace him i wouldnt mind lookin at giambi day in and day out...........ohh la la........

[whitesox247]

im not saying hes better than paulie and this has nothing to do with the topic and this is way old but: scott speeezio..hes the greatest first baseman i've seen in a while..defensively i mean..i was APALLED (did i spell that right?) that he didnt win the gold glove last year..i was following him all season..and he is one of da greatest defensive first baseman ever..especially digging up those bouncing ones from eckstein

[BrandoFan]

Truth is, I am very ambivalent about Konehead: on one hand you can see flashes of undeniable All-Star talent; on the other, 8 Million for only a "pretty good one-dimensional 1bman" is way too much considering that Sox absolutely must bring back Buerhle and Colon (let's say 15 million per for both after 2004) and assuming that Daubach and Valenezula and Borchard can take cafe of LF/1B/RF between them for FRACTION of that.

 

Same for Lee. Gotta love 1000+ OPS and his newfound walking ability (Carlos went from pitiful 15 walks to 75 in the matter of 3 months last season). Yet I don't have the same confidence in him, yet. 2003 year is make or break.

 

Sure a 75 million payroll wil allow the Sox to keep Colon and see if Paulie and Lee can break out and take it to the next level. But we know Reiny won't shell out the money, so who know what KW has in store as far as trades go.

 

 

One thing I'd hate is to see Carlos become Sosa Lite and/or Konerko become Palmeiro clone once they leave the Sox. It's like they gave you their good years, but saved the great ones for other teams.

[baggio202]

here's a question..if the sox could only sign one guy..either konehead or colon...which would you take???

 

i go along with brando's thinking here...its a lot easier to replace a 1st baseman

[witesoxfan]

If you had to choose between Colon or Konerko....uhh....I think that is the easiest question ever. I'd be going with the Colon.

 

I could settle with Tony G as our 1Bman if it would help bring Colon back....seriously. Hell, you could stick some bum like Josh Paul on 1B and it wouldn't matter....hell, play Colon on 1B if we need it....point being, you could take about 90-95% of today's ballplayers and have them play 1B....the taller the better. Jon Rauch or Randy Johnson would make an incredible 1Bman, assuming they had good range.

 

However.....if I had to choose one firstbaseman over Konerko....I'd take Delgado, Helton, Giambi, Thome.....and they're all left-handed as well.

 

How about this...a harder question than baggs'....if a trade of Carlos Delgado for Paul Konerko came up(possibly a few A level prospects or something included...nothing big), would you do it? Toronto takes some of Delgado's salary so they even out....would you do it? I would.

[BrandoFan]

here's a question..if the sox could only sign one guy..either konehead or colon...which would you take???

 

i go along with brando's thinking here...its a lot easier to replace a 1st baseman

 

 

 

Colon ...if and only if the money is close (let's say, Colon asks for 3/28 and Konerko 3/25) or if he proves this year that his dominant 2002 AL performance wasn't an abberation. 21-7, 2.95 should do the trick.

 

If, on the other hand, Konerko settles for 3/17 and Colon demands 3/35+, then it al depends on actual performance. Id Colon cannot keep ERA under 3.50 in 2003, he is not worth the ace money, not from the Sox's financial standpoint anyway. If Konerko has his first half 2002 #s (All-Star level of 925-950+ OPS) then he is worth it especially if Borchard and Valenzula are not ready (I don't see how they could possibly make a difference in their first year in the majors).

 

(And yeah I realize that Konerko's ceiling is higher than Daubach's, but "potential" shouldn't be equal to "production", and so far Daubach is easily in Paul's league. I hope Paulie stays and becomes a true All Atar as a memeber of the Sox, but I undersad that sometimes risks must be taken and sacrifizes made. )

 

Delgado? No way! 18 Million a year is way too much. You can resign Colon AND Buerhle to multiple year deals with that kind of money. On the other hand if Toronto takes care of half of that (why would they, though?) and it only costs the Sox Konerko, Stewart and Rowand...Jimenez/Jose//Delgado/Maggs/Thomas/Lee/Crede/Borchard/Olivo is what baseball dreams are made of!

[witesoxfan]

Not that there is any interest at all....just asking a question....if given the chance, would you trade Konerko for Delgado, with some minor tweaks along with it....and the trade is eventually even out money wise....say Toronto gives $3.5 mill(bringing Delgado's salary down to $14.5 mill and essentially bringing Konerko's up to $10.5 mill)....but if a reason is needed for why the Jays would do it....I don't know...I suppose because they want to get younger, though that is a bad reason.

 

Just asking.....because it would be real interesting to see what people would think about that deal....hell, maybe the deal is Konerko with a 3rd team getting involved, though the main package is Konerko for Delgado....something like that.

 

I also agree on the lineup that it would be incredible, but I'd bat Delgado cleanup and one of Maggs or Thomas 3rd and then the other 5th...get that R-L-R matchup....sometimes that kind of thing drives managers crazy.

[baggio202]

Not that there is any interest at all....just asking a question....if given the chance, would you trade Konerko for Delgado, with some minor tweaks along with it....and the trade is eventually even out money wise....say Toronto gives $3.5 mill(bringing Delgado's salary down to $14.5 mill and essentially bringing Konerko's up to $10.5 mill)....but if a reason is needed for why the Jays would do it....I don't know...I suppose because they want to get younger, though that is a bad reason.

 

Just asking.....because it would be real interesting to see what people would think about that deal....hell, maybe the deal is Konerko with a 3rd team getting involved, though the main package is Konerko for Delgado....something like that. 

 

I also agree on the lineup that it would be incredible, but I'd bat Delgado cleanup and one of Maggs or Thomas 3rd and then the other 5th...get that R-L-R matchup....sometimes that kind of thing drives managers crazy.

the one thing delgado brings over konehead is a lot of homers from the left side..thats something this team needs...but delgdo is a slugger always swiong ing for the fences...paulie is a much better situtional hitter..i think he makes alot more productive outs than carlos does...i like paulie's defense over delgado too...

 

a big determining factor that no one hear can answer is how much of a leader has paulie become in the club house...it looks like he wants to take that roll on but wanting and doing it are two different things...that would be big question in my mind as to whether or not move konerko for anyone...

 

is he really the clubhouse leader now or is his quest to be "the man" actually making him more of a clubhouse nuisance???..ive seen alot of positives in that respect but remember paulie really blew it last year (imo) going after frank in the press....did that mistake hurt his credability with his teammates???..or in the long run did it help???..the answer to that question would go a long in way in how hard i would fight to keep him here

[witesoxfan]

baggs...two things you forgot to answer regardling Delgado....though he swings for the fences more(though I don't believe he truly does...that's MHO though) he also has better plate discipline and is a bit faster than Paully on the basepaths...and both started as catchers(in fact, I believe Delgado was still catching when he made his big league debut, but I could be wrong on that one), so that is one way to look at it.

 

I'd do it if I could get rid of Carlos....maybe trade Carlos in the deal....because then the Jays could give $3 mill or so in cash and I'd give them both Carlos and Paully.....use Delgado in the #4 spot and have Daubach or Borchard play LF and be in the #6 spot....or you could have Delgado bat 3rd, Maggs 4th, Borchard/Daubach 5th and Thomas 6th....but that's just an idea.

 

If the above move occurred(Lee and Konerko for Delgado and a prospect or two)....that would give Manuel plenty to tinker with in the middle of the lineup and he could just leave 1-2 and 7-9 in the order as they are.

 

As for the leader thing...I believe Jose is the team leader....so unless he is gone after this year, I could live with this trade. However...I wanna ask....who in the hell was the clubhouse leader for the A's this past year? Tejada, who can barely speak English? I don't really think you need an emotional leader...you just need guys to lead with their bats....and you need to have everyone figure that out. If Maggs continues and Thomas gets back on par, everything else settles in....Valentin will then get a steady diet of fastballs and he should hit about .275 or so with 30 homers and 100 RBI, Jimenez will hit well, Olivo will hit well...it will basically be a chain reaction. It may take till May to get it rolling big time....but it will feel something like 2000. That is how a big number of players have career years like that....a slow(or fast) chain reaction. This could very well be a second half team and they could carry a hot streak into the playoffs(assuming they get there)....with a great 1-2 and a great offense....ouch.

 

After straying off topci there for a bit....I think that there are better 1Bman out there than Konerko, and that's fine with me....but I can live with Konerko. If we could upgrade without paying much more, I could live with it...but that and only that. Regardless...Konerko is fine....I like him and as long as he returns to his first half numbers of 2002 and puts them up over a full year, I'll be very happy. I also think that he won't be playing as much 1B as he has in the past...I don't think Sox management wants his foot doing what it did last year...that was not good.

[Chisoxfn]

im not saying hes better than paulie and this has nothing to do with the topic and this is way old but: scott speeezio..hes the greatest first baseman i've seen in a while..defensively i mean..i was APALLED (did i spell that right?) that he didnt win the gold glove last year..i was following him all season..and he is one of da greatest defensive first baseman ever..especially digging up those bouncing ones from eckstein

Spiez was awesome at first. I never knew why he didn't win the gold glove. He was one of the best defensive first baseman I've seen the past 10 years and he was no slouch at the plate either. He was also an unbelieavable leader, but so were many of the Angels.

 

Are you in California or something, I've never heard of many Angel fans from out of the state.

[YASNY]

I'd hate to lose Konerko, but in my mind, he could be considered expendable. However, I think he has proven himself as a leader on the club. I feel that someone needed to call Frank out on that crap he pulled. Pauly probably shouldn't have done it in the press, but it was something that needed to be done.

[BrandoFan]

If the above move occurred(Lee and Konerko for Delgado and a prospect or two)....

 

I don't know if it's worth it. I'd hate to see Lee and Konerko turn all stars as Blue Jays. We also lose Colon de facto since Delgado is making 18+ mill and Lee and Konerko are making less than 10.

 

I guess it comes down to trust issue: I just don't trust Thomas to be his old self. I also don't trust Garland to carry this team. Not yet. Ditto for Wright, Rauch, Crede, Olivo, Borchard, Jimenez and Rowand. Sorry, I don't. Potential is not quite the same thing as production and all those mentioned are too young and or inconsistent to warrant vote of confidence at this point, IMO. Maggs, Colon and a 23yo Buerhle (I am concerned as it is with him being overworked in the last 2 years) are the closest we have to franchise players and team-carriers; at least you could say that Lee along with Konerko and Manos are proven. Are you sure you want to stake 2003 season on the youngins? Sure, we gain Delgado, who is top 10 hitters in all of baseball, but we lose young, improving and relatively affordable all stars in Lee, Konerko and Colon. (We also potentially lose Maggs, Daubach and Hurt in 2004 if we're not competitive in 2003.) Not worth the risk.

 

When Reiny find out the price tag on Delgado, he will kill Kenny.

 

Maybe I am wrong.

[YASNY]

Lee and Konerko for Delgado? When pigs fly!

[baggio202]

Lee and Konerko for Delgado?  When pigs fly!

i think the way to go is to package up lee and a good pitching prospect or 2 for a quality left handed power hitting CF...then LF is open to borchard (or RF and move maggs to left) when borchard is ready and rowand can patrol lf until then (which is more his natural position anyways)

 

i know alot of you didnt like it but i still think sending lee, wunsch and a pitching prospect (or lee and some other combo) to boston for nixon and nilsson would really go along way to strengthening our up the middle defense...

 

our line up

jimenez - 2b

valentin -ss

maggs - rf

thomas -dh

konehead -1b

nixon-cf

crede -3b

rowand -daubach platoon -lf

c- olivo - alomar/when alomar goes on the DL - nilsson

 

boston

damon - cf

giambi - lf

nomar- ss

ramirez -rf

lee - dh

ortiz - 1b

hillenbrand -3b

varatek -c

walker- 2b

 

not sure of the exact order but those 9 would make a real power packed line for beantown..that line up is better than ours..they have quality hitters one through nine..

 

i think its a deal that really helps both teams...

[Chisoxfn]

Lee and Konerko for Delgado?  When pigs fly!

i think the way to go is to package up lee and a good pitching prospect or 2 for a quality left handed power hitting CF...then LF is open to borchard (or RF and move maggs to left) when borchard is ready and rowand can patrol lf until then (which is more his natural position anyways)

 

i know alot of you didnt like it but i still think sending lee, wunsch and a pitching prospect (or lee and some other combo) to boston for nixon and nilsson would really go along way to strengthening our up the middle defense...

 

our line up

jimenez - 2b

valentin -ss

maggs - rf

thomas -dh

konehead -1b

nixon-cf

crede -3b

rowand -daubach platoon -lf

c- olivo - alomar/when alomar goes on the DL - nilsson

 

boston

damon - cf

giambi - lf

nomar- ss

ramirez -rf

lee - dh

ortiz - 1b

hillenbrand -3b

varatek -c

walker- 2b

 

not sure of the exact order but those 9 would make a real power packed line for beantown..that line up is better than ours..they have quality hitters one through nine..

 

i think its a deal that really helps both teams...

Baggs I like that idea a whole lot. My question is are there any teams willing to take on Lee's salary and in return give us a centerfielder that makes that much or less.

 

The one guy I love is Carlos Beltran, but would the Royals take on Lee? He would definately give them a good stick and it makes more sense long term. You get Beltran there in center to improve the d and then can stick with Borchard or Rowand in left and as you say, once Borchard is ready full time, Maggs moves to left. Then we have a really good defense with great arms at each slot. Maggs would have a great arm for a left fielder. We know Beltran and Borchard have guns.