baggio202 Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 i cant see KC taking on lee's salary...we would have to send cash with carlos to get that deal done....beltran , nixon..either guy is a major upgrade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 I'd send cash to KC along with Lee to get Beltran....Lee, Stewart and Ginter, along with cash, for Beltran and a diamond-in-the-rough prospect.....that's the kind of deal KW would make....and it would be great in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 im not saying hes better than paulie and this has nothing to do with the topic and this is way old but: scott speeezio..hes the greatest first baseman i've seen in a while..defensively i mean..i was APALLED (did i spell that right?) that he didnt win the gold glove last year..i was following him all season..and he is one of da greatest defensive first baseman ever..especially digging up those bouncing ones from eckstein Spiez was awesome at first. I never knew why he didn't win the gold glove. He was one of the best defensive first baseman I've seen the past 10 years and he was no slouch at the plate either. He was also an unbelieavable leader, but so were many of the Angels. Are you in California or something, I've never heard of many Angel fans from out of the state. yes im from southern cali..u havent seen many angel fans out of state? i've seen tons of them jump on the bandwagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Paul Konerko is still improving. He has not leveled out yet. DelGado probably has. I think Paul has another two years before he finds his skill level as a hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 i would not wanna lose konerko's attitude for anyone...i luv that mans attitude and his still-developing leadership..not to even mention his skills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 i would not wanna lose konerko's attitude for anyone...i luv that mans attitude and his still-developing leadership..not to even mention his skills Really? So if Delgado only cost 8 mill as opposed to 18 you wouldn't do the trade? Common, it's not like we are talking about Tony Clark or Fred McGriff here, whitesox247. Paul's potential and leadership are nice to have and all that (although the latter os overrated; whining is NOT equal to chemistry), but Delgado's best year is amazing 300 OPS points higher than Paul's. With shorter fences at the Cell and the general lift in spirits that often accompanies change in scenery (for one, don't tell me Latino comminuty in Torono is anything like it is in Chicago), Delgado is a near-automatic MVP. ETA: Just for future reference, am I the only person who uses OPS and RBI/ab to gauge a hitter's productivity as opposed to average and homers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 i would not wanna lose konerko's attitude for anyone...i luv that mans attitude and his still-developing leadership..not to even mention his skills Really? So if Delgado only cost 8 mill as opposed to 18 you wouldn't do the trade? Common, it's not like we are talking about Tony Clark or Fred McGriff here, whitesox247. Paul's potential and leadership are nice to have and all that (although the latter os overrated; whining is NOT equal to chemistry), but Delgado's best year is amazing 300 OPS points higher than Paul's. With shorter fences at the Cell, Delgado is an automatic MVP. are you saying delgados gonna have more homers? well whos the one that got to the home run derby last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 i would not wanna lose konerko's attitude for anyone...i luv that mans attitude and his still-developing leadership..not to even mention his skills Really? So if Delgado only cost 8 mill as opposed to 18 you wouldn't do the trade? Common, it's not like we are talking about Tony Clark or Fred McGriff here, whitesox247. Paul's potential and leadership are nice to have and all that (although the latter os overrated; whining is NOT equal to chemistry), but Delgado's best year is amazing 300 OPS points higher than Paul's. With shorter fences at the Cell, Delgado is an automatic MVP. are you saying delgados gonna have more homers? well whos the one that got to the home run derby last year I presume you're joking, right? Stick Delgado in our lineup and our stadium, and he hits 45 homers (if you must) and walks 150 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 alright delgado will probably have more homers...but his numbers have gone drastically down from 2000..and i believe they will keep going down..while konerkos gonna improve. lets c who does better next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 i would not wanna lose konerko's attitude for anyone...i luv that mans attitude and his still-developing leadership..not to even mention his skills Really? So if Delgado only cost 8 mill as opposed to 18 you wouldn't do the trade? Common, it's not like we are talking about Tony Clark or Fred McGriff here, whitesox247. Paul's potential and leadership are nice to have and all that (although the latter os overrated; whining is NOT equal to chemistry), but Delgado's best year is amazing 300 OPS points higher than Paul's. With shorter fences at the Cell, Delgado is an automatic MVP. are you saying delgados gonna have more homers? well whos the one that got to the home run derby last year How many homers did Konerko have all last year? How many did Delgado have all last year? Konerko fell off during the second half Last year, Delgado hit 30 points worse than Konerko did....yet, at the same time, had an OBP 50 points higher than Konerko. Guys with good OBP are good hitters. I'd have to agree with brando on this one.....if we had Delgado in our lineup, he'd hit 45 homers and walk 150 times...though he'd strike out over 100 times as well. No big deal with me if he walked 150 times as well. With those 45 dingers could come about 130-150 RBI....those numbers could be better than what Konerko ever puts up. I assume you've seen first hand what Delgado can do with protection....just look at his 2000 season, and then realize that he had Tony Batista, Jose Cruz, Raul Mondesi and Shannon Stewart around him, and them all having good years...there was talk of him hitting for the triple crown. He ended up hitting .344 41 137 with a 470 OBP....those numbers are sick. He'd put up similar numbers here too. In 2001, Batista sucked, Mondesi started to fall off production wise and Stewart had a worse year, if I remember correctly...only Cruz stayed hitting well. This past year, Vernon Wells, Eric Hinske and in the second half Jose Phelps, but Cruz sucked this year as well. You can understand why his power numbers went down. However, he'd cost way more than Konerko would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 344 41 137 with a 470 OBP....those numbers are sick What about slugging? His 664 were whopping 200 points higher than Konerko...It's all about OPS anyway. Last year he missed 20 games, so injury has to be taken into account as well. Homers are overrated anyway; Delgado is in the same hitting group as A.Rod, Giambi, Sosa, Ramirez, Guerrero, Helton, Walker and maybe now Maggs. Konerko is simply NOWHERE near that level. He need to step up BIG TIME to be mentioned in the same sentence as Delgado, who with the Sox (one of the best hitting lineups in the majors) protection, could be even better theoretically. For what's worth, Delgado is a slighly better hitter than Bonds was at the same juncture of his carrer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 i would not wanna lose konerko's attitude for anyone...i luv that mans attitude and his still-developing leadership..not to even mention his skills Really? So if Delgado only cost 8 mill as opposed to 18 you wouldn't do the trade? Common, it's not like we are talking about Tony Clark or Fred McGriff here, whitesox247. Paul's potential and leadership are nice to have and all that (although the latter os overrated; whining is NOT equal to chemistry), but Delgado's best year is amazing 300 OPS points higher than Paul's. With shorter fences at the Cell and the general lift in spirits that often accompanies change in scenery (for one, don't tell me Latino comminuty in Torono is anything like it is in Chicago), Delgado is a near-automatic MVP. ETA: Just for future reference, am I the only person who uses OPS and RBI/ab to gauge a hitter's productivity as opposed to average and homers? Typically, I go off my opinion. I am confident in my knowledge. To me though, I think the best way to do it is to look at many different stats as well as see how they play. There are many different ways to judge it. I do think Avg, Rbi's are important. Now sometimes, those numbers can be lucky though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 just give paulie a couple more years and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I do think Avg, Rbi's are important. Now sometimes, those numbers can be lucky though. Average is not all that important; Jim Thome (not to mention Jose Valentin's .249, lol) is normally the best example. Bonds, too, only hit .262 in '99 if I recall, yet his 1000+ OPS were HOF numbers. At the same time, Ichiro's .350 means jack 'cause it's mostly infield singles (exaggeration)...Singleton, too hit .301 in '99, but he couldn't walk to save his life and sluggin' was subpar...And RBI's? They depend on the amount of at-bats (remember walk=no at-bat; injuries and missed games too reduce RBI chances) as well as whether your teammates are on base; without them even a homer only brings one RBI... You must agree that Bonds's 106 RBIs in 2000 and 110 last year were not indicative of his superman production. Sosa's 108 ribbies in 2002 also did not reflect his ability. Or would you say Konerko had a better season because of his avg. and RBI's? Sure, OPS sometimes may not be enough- if players A and B both have 850 OPS, other stats must be considered. I would look at the RISP OPS and RBI/ab numbers to determine clutchability; after that I might consider quasi-intangibles like dimensions and wind factor of a stadium (Enron vs. Safeco) and line-up protection (Barry Bonds numbers look more impressive than, say, those of Gonzalez circa 1999 because Gonzo played on awesome-hitting Rangers team which included healthy Irod, Palmeiro, Clark, Caminiti and Greer, though to be fair to Juan Gone, along with Manny Ramirez and Glarraga he was the RBI machine in those days) If a player A was very clutch (like Valentin whose very solid for a SS 790 OPS doesn't tell the whole story) or played on an awful hitting team (Sosa) and Player B benefited from his teammates and/or stadium (Dante Bichette in Colorado in late 90's) or mainly beefed up his numbers in meaningless situations (Albert Belle comes to mind in '98), then players A should be considered a superior hitter despite similar OPS #s. Also, OBP is more important for players like Ichiro and Slugg is for players like Hurt. Still, OPS is IMO the closest to ideal method of gauging a hitter's worth. just give paulie a couple more years and ...he leaves the Sox because A) the team did not make playoffs in a crucial 2003 season in no small part thanks to his UN-realized potential, prompting JR to fire sale...or B) he demands 7-8 million for 4 straight 830-850-type seasons which Sox can easily replace with 800 OPS-type seasons but from MINIMUM wage players (say Valenzula, etc), epsecially if A) comes true. See, the power of SPECULATION and WISHFUL THINKING works both ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Damn the season better start soon, I am finding myself getting way to interested in this thread that was started with a hypothetical trade that will never happen. I need some real baseball damn it! Sorry just had to get that off my chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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