BrandoFan Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Does anyone know his status? Is he still with organization? I ask because 3-4 years ago, this kid was the most talented pitcher prospect in our ogranization if not whole baseball. I mean, his fastball was 95-98 mph with some bite (doctors promised it may go into triple digits three years after the TJ he underwent in '97), he also had a good curve, slider and a decent (for a tall, inexperienced power pitcher anyway) change-up. The best thing about him was not only his raw stuff and ceiling, but also his control and poise for a 21yo; he even got to show some of it late in 2000 with the Sox (8 walks in his first 40 innings in the majors!), although signs of re-injury were already showing by then. And did anyone see the size of his hands/fingers? They were HUGE and if you think Pedro can do freaky things with a baseball, you shoulda seen Barcelo throw his slider...Outside of Mark Prior and John Rauch, I never seen as purely talented (pure skills + mental maturity) a pitcher. What a waste that the Sox ran him into the ground. Same as Malone and Stumm I guess. Does anyone know if he will ever recover from his surgery(ies)? What's the prognosis/organization consensus? Anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Does anyone know his status? Is he still with organization? I ask because 3-4 years ago, this kid was the most talented pitcher prospect in our ogranization if not whole baseball. I mean, his fastball was 95-98 with some bite (doctors promised it may go into triple digits three years after the TJ he underwent in '97), he also had a good curve, slider and a decent (for a tall, inexperienced power pitcher anyway) change-up. The best thing about him was not only his raw stuff and ceiling, but also his control and poiseie for a 21yo; he even got to show some of it late in 2000 with the Sox, although signs of re-injury were already showing by then. And did anyone see the size of his hands/fingers? They were HUGE and if you think Pedro can do freaky things with a baseball, you shoulda seen Barcelo throw his slider...Outside of Mark Prior and John Rauch, I never seen as purely talented (pure skills + mental maturity) a pitcher. What a waste that the Sox ran him into the ground. Same as Malone and Stumm I guess. Does anyone know if he will ever recover from his surgery(ies)? What's the prognosis/organization consensus? Anything? I believe he was outrighted to the minors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 im pretty sure we released him...KW said last year in an interview on the radio that barcelo could never figure out how to pitch with pain..he always thought he wa injured when he just had a sore arm or something like that....after that i knew his days were numbered... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 From what I Know he was outrighted, but for some reason I think he's going to pitch in the organization again this year. I read something on BA and they still had him listed in the Sox organization. He did pitch pretty good in the Winter Leagues. I do agree though, Barcelo was impressive when he came up in 2000. Its too bad he got hurt, cause with him, we'd have an even nastier pen. Baggs is right though, KW didn't like him, because he couldn't take the normal pain of being a pitcher or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Barcelo is done, he's lost a lot of velocity on his fastball, from what i remember reading it's about 88-90 MPH now, with very little to no movement. He could have been something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I believe he is ticketed for Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 im pretty sure we released him...KW said last year in an interview on the radio that barcelo could never figure out how to pitch with pain..he always thought he wa injured when he just had a sore arm or something like that....after that i knew his days were numbered... bags, you may be right but ummmm what a moron kw is. barcelo had what 4 surgeries on his pitching arm and kw said he does not know what pain is. this guy when we first got him, had a fastball close to 99 mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 wasnt he released all together???? i could have swore i read that somewhere...........ill have to dig around...........either way though its such a waste of talent and such a shame kw ruined him............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 wasnt he released all together???? i could have swore i read that somewhere...........ill have to dig around...........either way though its such a waste of talent and such a shame kw ruined him............. this one may not have been kw fault. he is a monster in size and if you can imgine just too strong for pitching. he just put too much stress on his joints. he had some huge hands, when he held a ball, it look as it was a golf ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 yeah but kw is not a doctor.. and when a guy comes to him and says his arm is sore he should send him off to the right persons to have it checked out ........kw waited too long and tried to talk lorenzo through being hurt... so i would say it safe to believe that this one is on kw's shoulders........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 yeah but kw is not a doctor.. and when a guy comes to him and says his arm is sore he should send him off to the right persons to have it checked out ........kw waited too long and tried to talk lorenzo through being hurt... so i would say it safe to believe that this one is on kw's shoulders........... i will agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 yeah but kw is not a doctor.. and when a guy comes to him and says his arm is sore he should send him off to the right persons to have it checked out ........kw waited too long and tried to talk lorenzo through being hurt... so i would say it safe to believe that this one is on kw's shoulders........... i will agree with that. i agree too....thinking back on all of KW's blunders...that one could very well top the list...how can he say that about a guy thats had 4 operations???...is it any wonder we lead the league in torn labrums?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I asked Williams about Barcelo at SoxFest. He said he'd seen him pitch a few times in the Dominican this winter, and said he's slowly rounding back into form, is velocity is starting to come back. Williams confirmed they'd outrighted him off the roster but also said they were working to ensure he'd pitch somewhere on one of the Sox farm teams ... AA or Charlotte ... Williams said they still have hopes for him because he's only 25. I also asked about Brian Sager, the big righthander they'd signed as a 13th round pick late last year. He'd pitched lights-out for Stanford in a College World Series and had been projected as a 1st rounder but slipped in the draft due to his commitment to Stanford. A Diamondbacks offer of $1 million didn't change his mind. Anyway, he then transferred to Georgia Tech and experienced forearm problems and was shut down. The Sox signed him in late 2001, he has great size, 6'5", 230, great fastball and slider when healthy. It turns out he had some minor nerve surgery to correct the forearm problem, then a lingering shoulder problem which started at Stanford cropped up again, and they scoped his shoulder. He's on the mend, won't be ready to start the season, but Williams and Hahn said they have high hopes for him if he stays healthy. Hahn commented his rehab was going well and they expected him to stay in extended spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 welcome aboard, jim. i see that you get the BA prospect book as well. i been a big follower of sager when they drafted him. he had a rough outing last yr and that may have affected the outlook for some of the sox org. i still think he is a good prospect and i hope he develops. ref to barcelo i been a huge fan of him since he came over in the white flag trade. barcelo was one of the key in the trade that shcu wanted. i just hope he come thru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 yeah but kw is not a doctor.. and when a guy comes to him and says his arm is sore he should send him off to the right persons to have it checked out ........kw waited too long and tried to talk lorenzo through being hurt... so i would say it safe to believe that this one is on kw's shoulders........... i will agree with that. i agree too....thinking back on all of KW's blunders...that one could very well top the list...how can he say that about a guy thats had 4 operations???...is it any wonder we lead the league in torn labrums?? We can thank Nardi for that. No way can you thank a Gm for something like that. Oh ya, Barcelo was afraid to throw the ball. I know he had injuries but all the mri's that came back said he was healthy, but he refused to throw it. He was simply afraid. I can't blame him, but I also can't blame KW for being upset. I think he knows how good Lorenzo could be. Some guys arms just can't handle it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 yeah but kw is not a doctor.. and when a guy comes to him and says his arm is sore he should send him off to the right persons to have it checked out ........kw waited too long and tried to talk lorenzo through being hurt... so i would say it safe to believe that this one is on kw's shoulders........... i will agree with that. i agree too....thinking back on all of KW's blunders...that one could very well top the list...how can he say that about a guy thats had 4 operations???...is it any wonder we lead the league in torn labrums?? We can thank Nardi for that. No way can you thank a Gm for something like that. Oh ya, Barcelo was afraid to throw the ball. I know he had injuries but all the mri's that came back said he was healthy, but he refused to throw it. He was simply afraid. I can't blame him, but I also can't blame KW for being upset. I think he knows how good Lorenzo could be. Some guys arms just can't handle it though. but does mri really show all injuries? he was complaining that there was something wrong with his shoulder at the time. later it was found that he did have an injury. that is how i remembered the story. now i may be wrong on this part but that is how i remembered the story. you are right, his arm and joints can not handle the stress that his body puts on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I think most of the xrays/mris and whatever else you can call them do a pretty good job showing tissue and ligament damage. I'm not a doctor though, so if there is someone out there more familiar on the issue, please fill us in. Great point though LDF. I've always assumed, its pretty cut and dry looking at that stuff. Then again, they always have so many experts opinions, so it can't be that easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 All of you are making good points. Rehab could be one of the most painful things a person can go through and when you multiply it by four and when you have a high pain sensitivity, I can understand a youngter getting anxious and overprotective, especially if one of the causes of injury were improper mechanics (thank you Sox minor league system and San Francisco!) and pitching-through pain (thank you KW and a AA pitching coach). The reason I am more pissed off than usual about this is that even if Barcelo's first operation didn't allow him to be a great starting pitcher in the majors (like you said, some guys' arms just can;t handle it), he could have been a lights out closer. I've seen him throw as a 20yo and 21 yo who was relatively healthy (as healthy as a power pitcher can be only 2 years after TJ). Granted, it's very rare for a power pitcher with only 2 some years of proball to have anything in the way of breaking pitches or control, Lorenzo was AWESOME. I saw him pinpoint spot two consecuve 97 mph on the outside corner in the 7th (!!!) inning to go up 0-2 on a batter and then finish him off with an amazing (movement, location wise, esp. after the heat) hook... Like I said, if Barcelo was healthy, with a couple of Garland-esque years of learning at the bigs, he would proabably be Pedro Lite, with little more velocity and not as good a change.. Yes, IMO, he had a potential to be that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 All of you are making good points. Rehab could be one of the most painful things a person can go through and when you multiply it by four and when you have a high pain sensitivity, I can understand a youngter getting anxious and overprotective, especially if one of the causes of injury were improper mechanics (thank you Sox minor league system and San Francisco!) and pitching-through pain (thank you KW and a AA pitching coach). The reason I am more pissed off than usual about this is that even if Barcelo's first operation didn't allow him to be a great starting pitcher in the majors (like you said, some guys' arms just can;t handle it), he could have been a lights out closer. I've seen him throw as a 20yo and 21 yo who was relatively healthy (as healthy as a power pitcher can be only 2 years after TJ). Granted, it's very rare for a power pitcher with only 2 some years of proball to have anything in the way of breaking pitches or control, Lorenzo was AWESOME. I saw him pinpoint spot two consecuve 97 mph on the outside corner in the 7th (!!!) inning to go up 0-2 on a batter and then finish him off with an amazing (movement, location wise, esp. after the heat) hook... Like I said, if Barcelo was healthy, with a couple of Garland-esque years of learning at the bigs, he would proabably be Pedro Lite, with little more velocity and not as good a change.. Yes, IMO, he had a potential to be that good. i agree he was a very good prospect and too bad for his injuries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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