witesoxfan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 is mags worth the same amount of money that vlad is making? it was mention last yr that he was going to test the market, nothing has change in his stand............ and i just came back to the site and i am still hearing the same thing. as much as i like mags and i am a fan of his, his best value is to trade him, as i mention that we should have traded him last yr. but i was flame for mentioning that back then. Why would you have traded him when you are in the middle of a pennant race? You wanna talk about pissing the fans of Chicago off, holy s***. Last year would not have been the time to trade Maggs. This year, the only way we trade Maggs is if we are out of it at the deadline, and considering Minnesota has looked s***ty as hell, KC has looked s***ty, Cleveland has been awful, and Detroit is, well, Detroit, you have to look at us and really see a team with a hell of a good shot to win the division. I highly, highly, highly doubt we are out of it at the deadline; in fact, I see us being buyers at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Regarding Robin V, two noted posters said I was wrong about the Sox offering RV $7MM per year. I think it was was for three years, but still $7MM per yr. I hope my memory isn't going completely. Is anyone else old enough to remember? I still stand on my thesis that the current Maggs situation is nothing like Ventura's. Maggs is ten times the player that Ventura was, and he did have a lousy attitude his last year with us, and JR did not have the ovaries to dump RV for prospects like he did in the White Flag deal, and RV did demand Matt Williams money, and there was no way he was coming back to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Look at it this way: --Rowand, Perez, Anderson will be competing for CF position --Lee, Reed, Gload for LF --Maggllio, Sweeney, Borchard for RF. Obviously, Lee and Magglio would have to out-perform their competiion by a WIDE-ass margin -- Reed's 830 OPS at 300K are worth more than Lee's 850 OPS at 8 Mill just as, say, Sweeney's 850 OPS at league minimum would be worth more than Maggs' 920 OPS at 13+ Mill. Right? Yes, but in rookies their is no proof they are going to come and burst onto the scene. Its why if your team isn't in a rebuilding mode you have to stagger the number of rookies you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 if it happens, it will be for 4 years and will average more than 14 and begin at more than 14 Then he'd be getting paid more then Vladdy Guerrero, who is, no offense to Maggs, superior in pretty much every aspect of the game. This is a very good deal. First off, its 6 years and right now it appears that the market value for players is going to go DOWN, not up. So he is securing his future and is safe if he does (I sure hope not) get injured. Secondly its for a little over 11 mill a year. If I recall, Sheffield got like 12 mill a year and he is another player that is offensively superior to Maggs at this stage of the game. Since the deal is longer, Maggs will take less money and just becuase he is making 14 mill this year, doesn't mean thats what the contract should start out with. His contract was staggered to this point and I'm still shocked the Sox are paying it. All along I felt the Sox should go long term, give him around 11 mill a year and give him the heavy years so he can retire a Sox. I think in the end the deal will end up being more like 6 yr 70 or 75 mill and it will be the biggest deal in franchise history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Maggs is ten times the player that Ventura was, and he did have a lousy attitude his last year with us, 10 times the player Ventura was in 1998-2002? I doubt he is twice the player Robin was. Maggs is not a supestar and most likely will never be one. 15-17 Mill a year figure that some of you are proposing is grotesque. Even the Great Barry Bonds is only making less than 25% of the entire Giants payroll -- and Bonds, unlike Ordonez, actually puts fannies in seats. Billy Beane was smart enough not to pay Tejada 75 Million and instead put a rookie Crosby at SS at league minimum. Right now, A's are in 1st place and with smarter dead-line acquisitions, might just win that division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Yes, but in rookies their is no proof they are going to come and burst onto the scene. Its why if your team isn't in a rebuilding mode you have to stagger the number of rookies you have. Yeah, but Sox will have a lot of option in 2005-2006. When you have 3-4 players vying for a single position AND you are smart enough to grab a bargain off the market.....Yoy'd be suprised how expendable "stars" like Magglio and Lee and Konerko (before 2003) can become. Giants could have replaced Jeff Kent with a cheap Robbie Alomar last year and they still would have won that division. If Maggs doesn't have a career year in 2004 and doesn't lead Sox into ALCS, there is not reason to bring him back. None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 If I recall, Sheffield got like 12 mill a year and he is another player that is offensively superior to Maggs at this stage of the game If Magglio could run, field and throw like Ichiro, then I could understand it, but Maggs has been overrated in those aspects of the game for 2 years now. And, of course, people forget that Gary Sheffield brings fans to the stadium, generates higher ratings and sells merchandise like few others. Finally....and this gets missed all the time in these emotional debates......YANKESS HAVE A 190 MILL PAYROLL. They could theoretically pay Sheffield 50 Mill a year and STILL field a good team. In 2003, Sox payroll barely cleared a 50 Mill mark -- and that was the year division was up for grabs and Sox hosted the All-Star Game......The only way Maggs is worth 15-17 Mill is if Reindorf goes insane and has a 100 Mill payroll. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Bruce Levine was on the pregame today and Wills asked him about the Maggs contract situation (mentioning the Southtown article). Levine said the sides have been talking for awhile now. Basically Maggs wants 5 years at 15m per, Sox want to give him 3 years. Levine says that if Sox offer 4 years at 13-14m per year he will sign Levine said that Maggs is resigned to the fact that he's not going to get as much as he is getting this year (14m) and will sign for less... not for 10m a year though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Basically Maggs wants 5 years at 15m per, Sox want to give him 3 years. Levine says that if Sox offer 4 years at 13-14m per year he will sign Good-bye Maggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 in big frank's prime, he did put fans in the seats. look at some of the other so called superstars, do they put fans in the seats? now for mags, how many has he put there. can anyone honestly say that mags, thru his performance has put fans in the seat??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Winning Baseball teams will put people in the stands....Maggs is a big part of our success. I dont care how good your best player is, if you team sucks nowone will go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Winning Baseball teams will put people in the stands....Maggs is a big part of our success. What success? Sox fans do NOT support a winning team. Check 2000 attendance, ratings, merch sales., etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 thats a good point... man i really hate JR, maggs is worth 4 years @ 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Winning Baseball teams will put people in the stands....Maggs is a big part of our success. I dont care how good your best player is, if you team sucks nowone will go. until then, some of your players need to put fans in the seat. to have the suspense of what will your favorite will do. will he do something great and you were there to watch it. that is what a superstar does. that is what a player who has that something special about him. however, as i always have said, if you build a team that will win, and i do not mean win in one season and struggle the next, the fans will come. until you build your team, you need to use what you have as trade bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 What success? Sox fans do NOT support a winning team. Check 2000 attendance, ratings, merch sales., etc that was one year, and i hate using this "what if", but what if the sox came out smoking in 2001, and the excitement was there................... the fans would have come out. we are not stupid here, fans will not be fooled by 1/2 season wonders............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 that was one year, and i hate using this "what if", but what if the sox came out smoking in 2001, and the excitement was there................... the fans would have come out. we are not stupid here, fans will not be fooled by 1/2 season wonders............ How do you spell 'BULLs***' in Bengalese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Look at the attendance, the Sox have led Chicago in attendance numerous times and it can happen again. It takes consistent winning and playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 How do you spell 'BULLs***' in Bengalese? :dips*** care to expand on your reply of a fine rebuttal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 So then the all mighty Brando, what should the Sox do? You seem to have all the answers.... Grow up, kid. I am just stating the facts here. Nothing more nothing less. My favorite player is Jose Valentin, whom I consider to be underrated in the 4 years I've watching him play. But even I would NEVER suggest he is worth more than 2 Mill a year. And yet here we have people who suggest that Magglio is worth 5/75 and even 4/68, which might be as high as 30% of the entire Sox payroll in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Grow up, kid. I am just stating the facts here. Nothing more nothing less. My favorite player is Jose Valentin, whom I consider to be underrated in the 4 years I've watching him play. But even I would NEVER suggest he is worth more than 2 Mill a year. And yet here we have people who suggest that Magglio is worth 5/75 and even 4/68, which might be as high as 30% of the entire Sox payroll in the future. so are you saying that mags is not worth it............. what do you think he is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 so are you saying that mags is not worth it............. what do you think he is worth. Magglio is worth whatever someone wants to pay him. The point is that if the Sox payroll is going to stay at 60 million or less, it's tough to put 25-30% of it in one guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Magglio is worth whatever someone wants to pay him. The point is that if the Sox payroll is going to stay at 60 million or less, it's tough to put 25-30% of it in one guy. who said that the sox would not be willing to spend the money for a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 who said that the sox would not be willing to spend the money for a winner. Nobody, but until they show people that they will spend the assumption will be that they won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Nobody, but until they show people that they will spend the assumption will be that they won't. first they need to put the product out on the field first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 1. so are you saying that mags is not worth it............. 2. what do you think he is worth. 1. To the Sox? No way. Even in 2002 he wasn't worth it. 2. 5/70 is what the market will give him. My problem? Sox could barely pay that kind of money to Barry Bonds and Magglio will never be Bonds. That's why I was so pissed in 2002 and 2003 when we played s***ty ball and owndership refused to spend more than 50 Mill. THEN, while Maggs, Lee, Burhle and Co. were underrpaid, coming on the heels of 2000 triumph.....THEN, Reindorf should have been spending 75-80 Mill and building a Championship caliber teams......NOW, its's become that much harder -- very little payroll room and people want to get paid big-time. Now, we cannot afford Magglio. Not even close. The only way Sox could keep him if the following occurs: --Magglio breaks out for a Sammy Sosa 1998-type season --Sox blow everybody away, win the division and make noise in the playoffs Cubs-style --At least 2.4-2.5 Mill fans go through the gates to show Reinford fans WILL come out fi the team is winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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