Elcaballo45 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Its very early, too early in the season, but Im not sure I can look at Valentin K 3 times a game and have 2 errors in one inning like the ones he had in todays 2nd inning... Mark made a great pitch on Sheffield, and it cost him a tie ball game... I think Uribe is a much better SS than 2nd baseman, why cant he flip around with Valentin if Harris is getting the starts at 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Amazega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I'd love to have two speed demons batting 1 and 2 in the lineup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Since roughly last mid-May (with Spring training that includes 5.5 months) when Sanatana tweaked his throwing motion, Jose only comitted 10 errors while leading the majors in range and DP efficiency. So he overthrew a couple 2000-style, cry me a river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 We can put this on hold as of 12:45.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elcaballo45 Posted April 10, 2004 Author Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hahah.... Very nice, This thread sparked Valantin for a 2 run blast! Someone may now yell at me for starting this thread! 5-2 Sox! On a side note and edit: Did I put Urible for the subject line? That would be a cool name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Uhh Hmm.......let me see here.......uhh HELL NO!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I told you people last year: if Jose doesn't over-stride/submarine and keeps the arc low on his throws, he'll be a good SS as it would literally eliminate half of his errors and his range/arm/release/willingness to go for a risky play would paint over whatever other mistakes he does make.. Today he tried to do too much, too quickly and got burned on it. Hopefully he learns his lesson and stays contained as he did since last May. It's up to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Amazega Jason, it's Almezaga! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 No way. Just have Santana smack around Jose for dropping down twice, he will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Btw....those who don't think range matters.....Jeter just dove for the ball that Jose or Berroa wouldn't even have to dive for. Base hit. Runner on base. How is it different from an error? A runner reaches base on a play he shouldn't have. And pitcher's ERA can suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Jason, it's Almezaga! Isn't it Amezaga? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Isn't it Amezaga? Yes it is, and you should hear Vin Scully pronounce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokona Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Btw....those who don't think range matters.....Jeter just dove for the ball that Jose or Berroa wouldn't even have to dive for. You're right. Becasue they'd be watching it roll to Rowand/Beltran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 You're right. Becasue they'd be watching it roll to Rowand/Beltran. Check your Zone Ratings again. Jose is top notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 You're right. Becasue they'd be watching it roll to Rowand/Beltran. :dips*** Rowand/Beltran would be watching Jose/Berroa throw it to Konerko/Sweeney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Check your Zone Ratings again. Jose is top notch. Check out a weighted ZR, esp since last May. Or his career range factor (highest in ML) Better yet, watch some games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Better yet, watch some games. Always has been and always will be the best way to judge a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I like Jose. Keep playing Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I like Jose. Keep playing Jose. Just drop him in the order as punishment for over-swinging. I am fine with Rowand/Olivo in the 2-spot against lefties and Perez/Lee against righties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Check out a weighted ZR, esp since last May. Or his career range factor (highest in ML) Better yet, watch some games. Sometimes I wonder if people have been watching the same shortstop as I have for the last few years. Jose Valentin is an above average shortstop. He's no Ozzie Smith or Luis Aparicio, but he is a good shortstop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Sometimes I wonder if people have been watching the same shortstop as I have for the last few years. Jose Valentin is an above average shortstop. He's no Ozzie Smith or Luis Aparicio, but he is a good shortstop. I can only judge from the last two times I've seen him play SS full-time: In 2000, he was below-average-to-average. As documented, most errors didn't lead to runs and were partially compensated for with above-average range, arm, DP, etc. Still a minor liability defensively but not nearly as big as mindless casual fans like J-Hood seem to think. In 2003, he was average-to-above-average -- bad in the first 6 weeks and GG-caliber in the last 4.5 months. This spring training, playing on inferior quality infield, he's been flawless. Btw.....even when he was at his worst early in 2003, check this out: Especially if the cost of those errors in minimal. And they are. Don▓t believe me? Here is a rundown of each one. March 31, at Kansas City. Error came in third inning, no runs resulted. April 3, at Kansas City. Error in first inning, no runs resulted. April 12, at Detroit. Error in third inning, no runs resulted. April 15, home vs. Kansas City. Error in fifth inning, led to one run, which cut the Sox▓ lead to 4-3. Sox lost game 8-5 when Billy Koch gave up a four run ninth. April 22, at Baltimore. Error in sixth inning, no runs resulted. April 25, home vs. Minnesota. Error in eighth inning, one run resulted. This run extended the Twins lead to 6-1, which became the final score. May 1, home vs. Oakland. Error in second inning, one run resulted. Sox won game, 7-5. Out of seven errors, only one, the April 15 misplay, could be reasonably classified as causing any damage. And that game was actually lost in December, when Kenny Williams traded Keith Foulke to Oakland for Billy Koch. But that▓s another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I take it someone will revive this thread whenever Jose makes an error. Honestly, I'm not all that over impressed with the little I've seen of Uribe's D, I wouldn't bring him as a late inning replacement for Jose and definitely not for Willie who I think may be a GG candidate in a couple of yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnSoxFan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Anybody who does not appreciate Jose's range, well I do not know what to tell ya. He had a fantastic year last year, he is so much better defensive SS than a guy like Jeter, he has pop in his bat when he makes contact. He is best SS we have had for 3-4 season in Chicago since Ozzie, and I was not a big Ozzie fan, tho I like him as a manager. Jose has far better arm, better range (even before Ozzie was hurt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Anybody who does not appreciate Jose's range, well I do not know what to tell ya Part of the reason it's not appreciated is because Jose doesn't look like your typical lanky athlete at SS; he doesn't make acrobatic stops like Ozzie Smith, Ray Ordonez or Clayton on every other play because, well, he doesn't need to -- just as he gets good jumps on the base-pads despite not having much speed, his quick first step and anticipation/positioning skills at SS create for an above-average range. Then you add a pretty strong arm, quick release on the DP pivot AND Jose's willingness to go for a risky play like a force-out at 2nd instead of an easy out at 1st.....and you got a make-up of a pretty good defensive player. The only knock: patented concentration lapse. Shoulder dips, too much is put on the throw and it sails. If Jose can keep his error total under 25, he'll be a solid SS. If under 15, a Gold Glover. Before I forget (scroll down a bit) http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/gg2003.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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