BRAVO SOX!

[DonkeyKongerko]

Todd Helton's Contract:

 

Todd Helton 1B COL Signed Mar 2001 - 9 years/$141.5M

2003: $10.6M

2004: $11.6M

2005: $12.6M

2006: $16.6M

2007: $16.6M

2008: $16.6M

2009: $16.6M

2010: $16.6M

2011: $19.1M

2012: Team option $23.0M or $4.6M buyout

-Can void the deal after 2007

 

Courtesy of MLB Player Contracts

[sox-r-us]

Yes it is great to see the team go 3-3 on the road, 4 of them against the all stars.

 

BUT....the biggest problem with this team since 2000 has not been beating the Yanks oir Bo Sox of the world.....their problem has been beating the Tigers and DRays of the world

 

They HAVE to play at least 0.700 ball against the Tigers and Injuns to stay in contention with the Royals and Twinkies.....both Royals and Twinkies have started their come from behind wins.....we better keep pace with them

 

Remember last year when time after time we got our asses handed to us by the freaking tigers?

 

[BrandoFan]

That's the key. If they start dumping players for prospects, we win

 

Yep, Twinkies were 5 games under .500 back in May-June and were ready to call it quits if Royal lead was to stretch to double-digits (or was it 12) at the ASB.

 

This year Twins and Royals won't have as easy a schedule in August and September, so I am guessing 8 game lead at ASB and at least one of them cashes their chips.

 

I am happy neither team is playing well, but their comebacks are alarming. It may mean they are ready to OVER-achieve once more and stay in the haunt until the end. Hope we beat their brains in head-to-head and put it out of reach.

[BrandoFan]

Here's a list of the free agents to be.

 

2005 Free Agents Class

(Contract as of 12/09/03):

 

SP Kevin Appier

OF Garret Anderson

SP Tony Armas

SP Kris Benson

OF Lance Berkman

OF Carlos Beltran

3B Eric Chavez

SS Orlando Cabrera

1B Carlos Delgago

RP Octavio Dotel

OF Steve Finley

SS Nomar Garciaparra

3B Troy Glaus

SS Alex S. Gonzalez

SS Christian Guzman

RP Trevor Hoffman

SP Orlando Hernandez

OF Geoff Jenkins

OF Jacque Jones

OF Brian Jordan

RP Billy Koch

3B Corey Koskie

RP BH. Kim

OF Carlos Lee

SP Esteban Loaiza

C Paul LoDuca

RP Braden Looper

SP Derek Lowe

SP Pedro Martinez

C Mike Matheny

SP Eric Milton

SP Matt Morris

1B Kevin Millar

RP Rob Nenn

SP Hideo Nomo

OF Xavier Nady

OF Trot Nixon

1B John Olerud

OF Magglio Ordonez

SP Russ Ortiz

SP Ramon Ortiz

DH David Ortiz

RP Troy Percival

SP Brad Penny

SP Brad Radke

3B Aramis Ramirez

SP Mark Redmond

SP Aaron Sele

UT Richie Sexson

SP Steve Sparks

OF Ichiro Suzuki

UT Mark Teixeira

C Jason Varitek

2B Jose Vidro

SS Jose Valentin

SS Omar Vizquel

SP Javier Vazquez

SP Jarrod Washburn

2B Eric Young

 

 

Some of these guys have already signed extensions, like Eric Chavez and Ichiro - but that's the jist of it.

See......losing Maggs won't be fatal.

 

Hell, I'd rather have Evrett at 3.5 Mill than Magglio at 15

[CWSHarris1]

This is probably the best i have seen the sox play against teh yanks.

[BrandoFan]

Thomas's timing is off as he has had two balls that he has hit that normally would be gone if he had his timing down correctly but were about 10-20 feet foul just due to him being a tenth of a second too early

 

Frank has to let things come to him. Use CF/LCF instead of exclusively LF

 

A 475-foot foul ball is just that - a mere strike.

[CWSGuy406]

See......losing Maggs won't be fatal.

 

Hell, I'd rather have Evrett at 3.5 Mill than Magglio at 15

No, I'd rather have Mags. Mags is a franchise player - consistent, good on defense, great at the plate. He's a superstar - and the only reason he isn't considered a superstar is because he doesn't talk as much as others do. You don't have to worry about Mags getting in trouble...

 

Ill take Mags at 13-15 million, regardless of our prospects in the minors. Why? Because prospects don't always pan out. Mags is everything you can want from a player - resign him, and make him our franchise player.

[OZZ-fest 2004]

I can't wait till the ballgame tomorrow. Should really be a different mood from the fans. Coming back 3-3 instead of being swept like last year. I'm very happy with what they did on the road. They are looking good.

[witesoxfan]

No, I'd rather have Mags.  Mags is a franchise player - consistent, good on defense, great at the plate.  He's a superstar - and the only reason he isn't considered a superstar is because he doesn't talk as much as others do.  You don't have to worry about Mags getting in trouble...

 

Ill take Mags at 13-15 million, regardless of our prospects in the minors.  Why?  Because prospects don't always pan out.  Mags is everything you can want from a player - resign him, and make him our franchise player.

Maggs at $15 mill, or Everett at $3.5 mill?

 

Maggs will put up good numbers...maybe .325 40 140 .950 at his very best...he's a great guy in the clubhouse, never complains, busts his ass all the time. The kind of guy any fan can enjoy watching play, whether you love the White Sox or hate them.

 

 

And, even after saying all that, I still agree with Brando 100%.

 

Everett can be a show-boat, can be rub some people the wrong way, is not always great in the media...but that's about the only negatives about him. He still busts his ass all the time, is a fun guy to watch, and is a great guy to have on the team. The fact that you can get him and a .270 25 80 .800 or so for $3.5 mill is pretty damn good. Consider the fact that we are saving $11.5 mill by taking Everett, and we could then bring in Mark Loretta, Ugeuth Urbina, and Kris Benson and could still be under the $15 mill we spent on Maggs.

 

The best way to win games and to win a lot of games is not to spend boatloads of money on 1 or 2 guys, but rather spread it out equally and have a team of good players, instead of a team with 2-3 superstars and the rest mediocre players(unless you can get 2-3 players that are Curt Schilling or Vladimir Guerrero good, and even then you may not be able to compete).

 

So I'll let you take Maggs, and I'll take Everett, Loretta, Urbina, and Benson. Is that OK?

[BrandoFan]

So I'll let you take Maggs, and I'll take Everett, Loretta, Urbina, and Benson. Is that OK?

 

Substitute Benson for Washburn and Loretta for Edgar Martinez.

[CWSGuy406]

Maggs at $15 mill, or Everett at $3.5 mill?

 

Maggs will put up good numbers...maybe .325 40 140 .950 at his very best...he's a great guy in the clubhouse, never complains, busts his ass all the time.  The kind of guy any fan can enjoy watching play, whether you love the White Sox or hate them.

 

 

And, even after saying all that, I still agree with Brando 100%.

 

Everett can be a show-boat, can be rub some people the wrong way, is not always great in the media...but that's about the only negatives about him.  He still busts his ass all the time, is a fun guy to watch, and is a great guy to have on the team.  The fact that you can get him and a .270 25 80 .800 or so for $3.5 mill is pretty damn good.  Consider the fact that we are saving $11.5 mill by taking Everett, and we could then bring in Mark Loretta, Ugeuth Urbina, and Kris Benson and could still be under the $15 mill we spent on Maggs. 

 

The best way to win games and to win a lot of games is not to spend boatloads of money on 1 or 2 guys, but rather spread it out equally and have a team of good players, instead of a team with 2-3 superstars and the rest mediocre players(unless you can get 2-3 players that are Curt Schilling or Vladimir Guerrero good, and even then you may not be able to compete). 

 

So I'll let you take Maggs, and I'll take Everett, Loretta, Urbina, and Benson.  Is that OK?

That's fine with me, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think you can carry a contract of fifteen million dollars, not be the Yankees, and still be a good baseball team. I believe that if money is spent in the right places, than you can have a good baseball team. IMO, spending big money on Mags is spending it on the right places, but some people may differ, oh well. We're all after the same goal - a World Series Title on the Southside, we're all just wanting to take different routes to get there.

[hammerhead johnson]

Substitute Loretta for Edgar Martinez.

[witesoxfan]

That's fine with me, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I think you can carry a contract of fifteen million

I agree you can. You have to have a s***load of young talent on your roster for very cheap and you have to get lucky as hell too. Over the past 3 years, do we fit that criteria? Personally, I say we do not; therefore, we cannot spend $15 mill on one player per year...it just doesn't bode well for your future success.

 

I believe that if money is spent in the right places, than you can have a good baseball team.

 

Which is exactly what I'm suggesting we do.

 

IMO, spending big money on Mags is spending it on the right places, but some people may differ, oh well.

 

And that's your opinion and I respect that. I do not feel the same way you do.

 

Let it be known that I do want Maggs resigned and I think he is a very good player...but not at $15 mill a year. If he does it at $12-$13, I'll take it. $2-3 mill may not seem like a lot, but really, for a team like the White Sox, it could really be the difference between hoisting the World Series trophy above their heads and watching the playoffs from their home in Chicago/watching from their offseason home, as proven quite well by Brando. We had 3 wins out of our 5th starter last year, and if we have 5 or 6 in April through August, the division is quite possibly ours. Basically, it was signing Jeff Suppan for $1 mill, or trading for Paul Wilson in Tampa Bay. We do that, and we see the White Sox bathing in champagne and preparing to destroy the Yankees in the first round. But enough on 2003...that year was so hard to take as a fan, and I'm still a young guy...I can't imagine what it was like to be one of our "old-timers" who have seen dozens of Sox teams and seeing that Sox team. I know for a fact that that team had just as good a chance to be a big winner than any in the past 30 years, and I've only been around for 16 of those years..that team could have been that good. But as I said, enough of that s***.

 

Just so you know, Maggs at $15 mill is not as bad as Konerko at $7.5 mill a year, or even Buehrle at $6 mill a year(with a backloaded contract). I would much rather have a guy on my team in Maggs at $15 mill that I know will give me .310 30 110 .900 OPS every year than a guy in Konerko who is slower then frozen honey and is a guy who usually only gives you one good half for $7.5 mill, or even Buehrle who while is a solid starter is not a great starter who is among the league's best. For $6 mill? I kind of question that move. Also, Carlos at $9 mill next year could be just a bit much. Just so it is known.

 

We're all after the same goal - a World Series Title on the Southside, we're all just wanting to take different routes to get there.

 

 

 

 

 

Brando...I'd take those 2 as well. Just saying that, in this situation, quantity is more important than quality.

[BrandoFan]

Maggs (15) - 930 OPS

 

>>>>>>>

 

LF Everett (3.5) 840 OPS #5 hitter, similar speed and defense

RF Reed (0.3) 820 OPS, better running and defense

SP Washburn (5) 3.65 ERA, #2 starter

C Urbina (4) 2.90 ERA, closer

Edgar (4) - 850 OPS, #4 hitter

 

>>>>>>>

 

Ok, so you're gonna have to pay 2 mill extra for that bunch, but you can't tell me you're better off with Maggs than those 5 players.

[rafacosta]

Maggs (15) - 930 OPS - great player, will get on his prime in the next season, maybe this season.

LF Everett (3.5) 840 OPS - For today's number, he is overrated.

RF Reed (0.3) 820 OPS, How do you know he will be a great player?

SP Washburn (5) 3.65 ERA, #2 starter - OK

C Urbina (4) 2.90 ERA, closer - OK

Edgar (4) - 850 OPS, #4 hitter - End of career, we have already a DH in Frank, a mujch better DH.

 

 

Choose better players next time.

[BrandoFan]

Choose better players next time

 

Next time choose a different sport.

 

GOOOOOOOOLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

[rafacosta]

Next time choose a different sport.

 

GOOOOOOOOLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

In which sport you will be so boring? Or will try to change the others opinion?

 

[witesoxfan]

LF Everett (3.5)  840 OPS - For today's number, he is overrated.

RF Reed (0.3)    820 OPS, How do you know he will be a great player?

SP Washburn (5)  3.65 ERA, #2 starter - OK

C Urbina (4)    2.90 ERA, closer - OK

Edgar (4)  - 850 OPS, #4 hitter - End of career, we have already a DH in Frank, a mujch better DH.

 

 

Choose better players next time.

Maggs is in his prime.

 

Everett will give you .275 25 80 .800 or so every year. They are not great numbers by any means, but are very solid, especially for $3.5 mill.

 

Reed, while he will not necessarily be great, would probably put up atleast .275 10 60 .700 numbers(and those could possibly be much better), and for the league minimum, I'll take that from a #8 hitter or so.

 

Washburn is a good pitcher, and I'll take him...as you said

 

Urbina is a good reliever, and I'll take him...as you said

 

Who says that Thomas and Edgar could not just platoon at 1B and trade Konerko for another need? While it could be awful to watch, I wouldn't mind seeing Thomas and Edgar at 1B. They would compliment each other very nicely.

 

 

 

Regardless, I do not necessarily think Brando is trying to point out that those are guys who the Sox should target in trades(though they are not bad ideas by any means). He's just saying that we can do a whole hell of a lot more with $15 million then give it to one player, when you can have all those players for right around $15 mill. That I agree with.

[BrandoFan]

Regardless, I do not necessarily think Brando is trying to point out that those are guys who the Sox should target in trades(though they are not bad ideas by any means). He's just saying that we can do a whole hell of a lot more with $15 million then give it to one player, when you can have all those players for right around $15 mill. That I agree with.

 

Yep. Give Billy Beane 15 Mill and he will ressurect Yeeesooosss.

 

And I don't know what our Brazeeelian brother is talking about -- If Everett's

840 OPS is nothing special, then how is Magglio's 930 worth 4 times more?

 

And Jeremy Reed thoroughly out-hit one Joe Mauer when they played in AA. With his eye and coordination, I don't see what's so ureachable about 820 OPS.

 

Finally....Edgar will have 850 OPS in a hitter's park (USCF) when he is 50. [/slight exaggeraton]

[witesoxfan]

Finally....Edgar will have 850 OPS in a hitter's park (USCF) when he is 50. [/slight exaggeraton]

How do we know he is not already 50? He looks likehe could be 50 to me, albeit a young 50.

[rafacosta]

Maggs is in his prime. 

 

Everett will give you .275 25 80 .800 or so every year.  They are not great numbers by any means, but are very solid, especially for $3.5 mill.

 

Reed, while he will not necessarily be great, would probably put up atleast .275 10 60 .700 numbers(and those could possibly be much better), and for the league minimum, I'll take that from a #8 hitter or so.

 

Washburn is a good pitcher, and I'll take him...as you said

 

Urbina is a good reliever, and I'll take him...as you said

 

Who says that Thomas and Edgar could not just platoon at 1B and trade Konerko for another need?  While it could be awful to watch, I wouldn't mind seeing Thomas and Edgar at 1B.  They would compliment each other very nicely.

 

 

 

Regardless, I do not necessarily think Brando is trying to point out that those are guys who the Sox should target in trades(though they are not bad ideas by any means).  He's just saying that we can do a whole hell of a lot more with $15 million then give it to one player, when you can have all those players for right around $15 mill.  That I agree with.

I dont think Maggs is on his prime. He can be and will be a much better hitter. You will see on the end of the season. On the defensive side, he can get better.

 

Ev, if he is so good, why he is on Montreal? And only getting paid 3.5 mill.

 

Reed, he is still a prospect. You dont kniow what he can be.

 

Thomas and Edgar platoon on 1B????????

 

 

Maggs is the man. He is a guy that can carry a team on his back like he has done a hundred times for this team. He is a fan favorite. He should be paid 12 mill/year.

He is player that you should create a team around him.

Above this, he isnt worth, especially with a payroll like the team has.

[rafacosta]

Next time choose a different sport.

 

GOOOOOOOOLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

In soccer, you know s***.

 

In baseball, you know a lot, but you are so idiot. You are always trying to put down the throat your opinions to others.

 

It's waste of time read your posts, always criticizing and never happy with situation of the team.

[witesoxfan]

I dont think Maggs is on his prime. He can be and will be a much better hitter. You will see on the end of the season. On the defensive side, he can get better.

Maggs is statistically in his prime. If you are in the ages of 28-31, you are in your prime. You can improve after that, but very rarely do you. There are exceptions(Bonds and McGwire being the main ones off the top of my head), but the prime is when you really peak as a player and do not improve much(and rule of thumb is that this occurs at about the age of 28). Maggs could very well put up .330 45 150 1.050...but he could also put up his usual .310 30 110 .900(not bad, but not of superstar status either). Who knows?

 

Ev, if he is so good, why he is on Montreal? And only getting paid 3.5 mill.

 

You say that like I think Everett is the second coming. For starters, Everett is a solid ball player, nothing spectacular...maybe .275 25 80 .800 or so(as I said before). There is nothing incredible about those numbers, but for slightly above the league average(which he is getting), I'd take those numbers.

 

The reason he is in Montreal could, but not necessarily does, have something to do with the way he plays the game. He showboats, he can be bad with the media, he can be a troublemaker...plain and simple, he can rub people the wrong way. Teams want to have a good chemistry, so they'll take a player with less talent and worse numbers. He signed with Montreal, who has to take risks to win. The same thing applies to Tampa Bay. There was a reason that those are the two teams who pursued Everett the most.

 

A reason he is making $3.5 mill this year could have something to do with the market being down. Juan Gonzalez only got $4 mill, Ugeuth Urbina got $3 mill, Benetiz got $3 mill...these examples are all around. Hell, Vlad got $15 mill a year, and I can almost guarantee that two years ago he gets somewhere between $20-25 mill a year. The market is way down.

 

For $3.5 mill a year? I'll take him(and several others) over one player making $15 mill(unless that guys name is Barry Bonds).

 

Reed, he is still a prospect. You dont kniow what he can be.

 

Considering he hit .375 or so and I believe led the minor leagues in average last year(going from low-A ball to AA ball IIRC) with his average increasing at each level, I'd say he could put up .275 10 60 .700, and that .820 OPS Brando had is very reachable as well.

 

For the league minimum of $300,000, I'll take him as well.

 

Thomas and Edgar platoon on 1B???????? 

 

What's wrong with that? That answer of course is nothing, which is exactly my point. Criticize with nothing to back it up. As they say in the Guiness commercials...

 

"BRILLIANT!"

 

Maggs is the man. He is a guy that can carry a team on his back like he has done a hundred times for this team.

 

Just as a question...how many times has he led us to the playoffs? The answer, as of right now, is the same number of World Series appearances the Chicago White Sox have in the past 40 years.

 

Maggs has been in the playoffs before, in 2000, but Thomas led the team to the playoffs.

 

He is a fan favorite. He should be paid 12 mill/year.

 

I have no problem with $12 mill a year. Maggs and his agent apparently do. They asked for $15 mill a year for a reason(and it wasn't for s***s and giggles). There is a reason the point of the discussion is basically "what is the best way to spend $15 mill"

[BrandoFan]

Maggs is statistically in his prime.  If you are in the ages of 28-31, you are in your prime.  You can improve after that, but very rarely do you.  There are exceptions(Bonds and McGwire being the main ones off the top of my head), but the prime is when you really peak as a player and do not improve much(and rule of thumb is that this occurs at about the age of 28).  Maggs could very well put up .330 45 150 1.050...but he could also put up his usual .310 30 110 .900(not bad, but not of superstar status either).  Who knows?

 

 

 

You say that like I think Everett is the second coming.  For starters, Everett is a solid ball player, nothing spectacular...maybe .275 25 80 .800 or so(as I said before).  There is nothing incredible about those numbers, but for slightly above the league average(which he is getting), I'd take those numbers. 

 

The reason he is in Montreal could, but not necessarily does, have something to do with the way he plays the game.  He showboats, he can be bad with the media, he can be a troublemaker...plain and simple, he can rub people the wrong way.  Teams want to have a good chemistry, so they'll take a player with less talent and worse numbers.  He signed with Montreal, who has to take risks to win.  The same thing applies to Tampa Bay.  There was a reason that those are the two teams who pursued Everett the most.

 

A reason he is making $3.5 mill this year could have something to do with the market being down.  Juan Gonzalez only got $4 mill, Ugeuth Urbina got $3 mill, Benetiz got $3 mill...these examples are all around.  Hell, Vlad got $15 mill a year, and I can almost guarantee that two years ago he gets somewhere between $20-25 mill a year.  The market is way down.

 

For $3.5 mill a year?  I'll take him(and several others) over one player making $15 mill(unless that guys name is Barry Bonds).

 

 

 

Considering he hit .375 or so and I believe led the minor leagues in average last year(going from low-A ball to AA ball IIRC) with his average increasing at each level, I'd say he could put up .275 10 60 .700, and that .820 OPS Brando had is very reachable as well. 

 

For the league minimum of $300,000, I'll take him as well.

 

 

 

What's wrong with that?  That answer of course is nothing, which is exactly my point.  Criticize with nothing to back it up.  As they say in the Guiness commercials...

 

"BRILLIANT!"

 

 

 

Just as a question...how many times has he led us to the playoffs?  The answer, as of right now, is the same number of World Series appearances the Chicago White Sox have in the past 40 years.

 

Maggs has been in the playoffs before, in 2000, but Thomas led the team to the playoffs.

 

 

 

I have no problem with $12 mill a year.  Maggs and his agent apparently do.  They asked for $15 mill a year for a reason(and it wasn't for s***s and giggles).  There is a reason the point of the discussion is basically "what is the best way to spend $15 mill"

Damn, WITE, way to represen'

 

I definately think Everett is an 800+ OPS player when healthy, and much better defensively (even after knee tear) in RF/LF than in CF.

 

As far as Edgar...Let's put it this way: last year before breaking his foot in late August, the man had a 960 OPS in a Safeco, which would be closer to 980+ at USCF. Rumors of his great decline have been greatly exaggerated.

 

Magglio wants 15 Mill? How about a 150 RBI season? 10 RBI a Mill, sounds reasonable.