Bighurt52235 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Josh Fogg or Kip Wells. I was upset in losing Fogg, because I thought he had enormous potential. I think Kip had his chance, but wasn't too impressive. Fogg= 12-12, 4.35 Wells= 12-14, 3.58 Fairly similar numbers, but I believe Fogg will have more success over his career than Wells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Fogg by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Kip Wells. Mark my words Fogg will never be more then an average pitcher on a bad team. His numbers will be much worse this year and I actually think at best he'll be a #5 pitcher, more likely a middle reliever. Kip has a lot more talent and I think he'll do pretty good. I don't see either making the hall of fame and I doubt either make an all star game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkDJ Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Gotta go with Kip Wells on this one. I think Fogg will be a good reliever but I don't know about starter. Wells I think will be a decent starter as his ERA showed last year. He probably needed to get away from Nardi and the gang in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Unless Fogg can pull a Buehrle(and really only one pitcher has pulled a Buehrle...I hope I don't have to tel you who it is), Wells will be the better potcher over time. Wells threw a complete game earlier this year....and he struck a guy out with his last pitch...a fastball....that reached 97 MPH. That's Colon-esque without the blubber or afro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I never really liked either of them, but probably Wells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 Come to think of it, I really hated losing Sean Lowe. Just kidding. I couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 kip wells was throwing 97 mph in the 8th inning last year in a few of his starts...thanks nardi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Josh Fogg for sure. Kip Wells overthrew way to much and walked too many batters, though a HUGE part of that was due to the pitching coach. But Josh Fogg still has better potential and i believe he will be the better pitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 That trade represented the worst judgement of pitching ability I have ever seen. Kenny should have been fired and castrated. I will always wonder if his boss (JR) knew about the trade in advance, signed off on it, or what. No one tells. I wish I knew. Before he hit the bigs, Wells was THE most promising pitcher in the minors. Then he came up to the Sox at the end of the year (1999) and won six, count 'em, six games. Then in 2000, he shut out the Indians at home on a three hitter and was a frigging stud. Then Nardi and Jerry did something to his brain and/or his arm. Fogg came up in 2001 when the Sox were struggling and he was fearless. He threw the ball over the plate and got guys out. Meanwhile, Biddle, Garland, and I don't remember who else were getting rocked. So we trade Wells and Fogg to the Pirates for a guy who was less than a .500 pitcher with a big salary. This is not second guessing; I was pissed from moment one. What do we need a general manager for? I don't know who will be better between Fogg and Wells. Who cares? It (the trade) represents incompetence. Those two pitchers will both be first class players for years to come. They were great for Pittsburgh from day one. And now we have Ritchie's 2002 record to live with, and let's face it, that destroyed the team in 2002. Nice legacy, Kenny. But now we have Heredia and Loaiza wearing Ritchie's number. The beat goes on. How many of our stud pitching prospects will end up elsewhere before they throw a meaningful pitch for the Sox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Lol, after that deal, I had my signature for a while that Kenny Williams should be castrated and fired. I never liked that trade from the get go, but it was one deal and I've came to forgive him for it and I've been one of his biggest supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Easily Kip Wells. He clearly had a great upswing that wasn't fully able to be viewed in 2001. He was just beginning to show what he was made of, and then he was traded. But now I'm thinking that if this trade never happened, would we have gone for Colon this offseason? I'm a firm believer of fate, knowing that things happen for a purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 If you watched the first half of last year, then both, if you watched the second half then the answear is neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 What ticked me off about the deal was that the Pirates were practically begging someone to take Ritchie from them, and give them ANYTHING in return. Giving them 2 pitching prospects, plus a third prospect (I forget his name, I think he was another pitcher?) in exchange for a poor-man's Rick Helling was completely unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 If the Sox were as patient with Kip Wells as they have been with Garland and Wright, we would have three guys with the potential to really break out this year. Wells is a solid pitcher and would be much better on a team other than Pittsburgh. Basically, if Kris Benson is not healthy, then Wells is their #1. That is a bit much to ask of him right now. Wells has a much higher upside than Fogg and will become a solid starter in the big leagues. The jury is still out on Fogg as many of you have mentioned may end up in the bullpen. I too hated this trade from the first time I read it. If it were for Todd Ritchie and Brian Giles, then that to me would have been more reasonable based on the timing of the trade. Before you say i am nuts, remember that Giles was on the "block" and discussed heavily at that time as well. Also, Sean Lowe was coming off a great season for the Sox both as a spot starter and out of the pen. Combine that with the Pirates desire to get rid of Todd Ritche, and that trade would have not been out of the question. Rumors were flying at that time that the Sox were going after Giles. In my mind, Ritchie was no better than Kip Wells at the time of the trade, so it made no sense to make the deal. Definitely KW's worst move (other than trading for the wrong guy -Barry/Berry- from the Dodgers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 wells always looked scared on the mound fogg who knows what he will turn into, if anything I guess I am not much missing either of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I think the Sox expected too much too soon from Wells. They weren't patient enough. Wells will definitely be the best player in that trade from either side. Come to think of it, he already is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 you mean i beat baggs to saying sean lowe???? geez us your slippin pal........ i dont miss kip "deer in the headlights" wells one bit.... and fogg wasnt here long enough to get fully attached to so i couldnt honestly miss him ... sean was a great work horse for us though, as i recall he ate through quite a few innings for us and did his best......and i fully believe he got jerked around by management up here...........so that is who i miss mostly out of that deal........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 you mean i beat baggs to saying sean lowe???? geez us your slippin pal........ i dont miss kip "deer in the headlights" wells one bit.... and fogg wasnt here long enough to get fully attached to so i couldnt honestly miss him ... sean was a great work horse for us though, as i recall he ate through quite a few innings for us and did his best......and i fully believe he got jerked around by management up here...........so that is who i miss mostly out of that deal........... it goes w/o saying ill always miss sean...glad he is back in the AL central..have to take in a royals game this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 If the Sox were as patient with Kip Wells as they have been with Garland and Wright, we would have three guys with the potential to really break out this year. Wells is a solid pitcher and would be much better on a team other than Pittsburgh. Basically, if Kris Benson is not healthy, then Wells is their #1. That is a bit much to ask of him right now. Wells has a much higher upside than Fogg and will become a solid starter in the big leagues. The jury is still out on Fogg as many of you have mentioned may end up in the bullpen. I too hated this trade from the first time I read it. If it were for Todd Ritchie and Brian Giles, then that to me would have been more reasonable based on the timing of the trade. Before you say i am nuts, remember that Giles was on the "block" and discussed heavily at that time as well. Also, Sean Lowe was coming off a great season for the Sox both as a spot starter and out of the pen. Combine that with the Pirates desire to get rid of Todd Ritche, and that trade would have not been out of the question. Rumors were flying at that time that the Sox were going after Giles. In my mind, Ritchie was no better than Kip Wells at the time of the trade, so it made no sense to make the deal. Definitely KW's worst move (other than trading for the wrong guy -Barry/Berry- from the Dodgers). I don't think you're nuts. The first question I asked when I heard about the deal is "Where the hell is Brian Giles?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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