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cheap shot at thomas???


baggio202

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this is from the cubune....talks about what foulke and MJ said at the A's fanfest...read the end carefully...the author makes a serious reach when he says foulke is criticizing thomas....i dont see how anyone can draw that conclusion..if you do..please explain it to me cause i dont get it...

 

Foulke talks of demotion, commotion

 

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By Teddy Greenstein

Tribune staff reporter

 

February 9, 2003, 10:16 PM CST

 

 

The way Keith Foulke sees it, the White Sox didn't reward him for being a team player last season. If anything, they punished him for it.

 

Foulke told reporters Saturday at the A's annual fanfest that after manager Jerry Manuel demoted him from closer to setup man, he probably should have pushed to get his old job back.

 

"I've never been one to make a whole lot of waves," he said. "I'll tell the manager what I think, but I do what I'm told. This time it didn't work out."

 

Foulke said that after blowing two saves in May, he walked into Manuel's office and told him he was embarrassed to face his teammates.

 

"I said if he wants to take me off the job, fine," Foulke recalled. "He said, 'Hey, when you get your stuff back, you'll get your role back.' I worked hard ... and continued to be in there in the seventh and eighth innings."

 

Catcher Mark Johnson, who also was dealt to Oakland in the December deal for Billy Koch, said Foulke should not have been demoted.

 

"When Frank Thomas goes through an 0-for-20 slump, you don't take him out," Johnson said. "You work through it."

 

Foulke rebounded to post a 0.74 ERA after the All-Star break. But he didn't close again until mid-September because his replacements were lights out.

 

Antonio Osuna and Damaso Marte combined for 21 saves in 23 chances over the season's final three months.

 

And in what appears to be a veiled criticism of Thomas, Foulke spoke of the Sox's unpleasant clubhouse atmosphere.

 

"A lot of things that went on there should have been stopped, and it wasn't," Foulke said. "That was kind of the demise of the team.

 

"I'll leave it at that. I'm happy to be in Oakland."

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Well, I think he may be taking a cheap shot at Manuel.

 

I know one thing and this is an article that pushes my belief that Manuel is an asshole that needs to shutup.

 

He goes out and tells people this is what they have to do to get there job back and when they do it, he just ignores them. I remember he kept saying Foulke was the closer, then he never even would come into close another game. It was really ridiculous. You need to have your players knowing there roles. If he's not going to close, tell him that, don't give him some bulls*** story that he's the closer, if he's never going to be out there.

 

Either way, I'm glad we have Koch, cause his role is in the closer slot and I feared with Foulke, Manuel would of still dicked him around the pen. It really pisses me off when a manager believes he can tell his players whatever he wants. You got to be honest with them, if you lie, then they won't trust you.

 

Oh ya, I don't see how that talks about Thomas. For all we know it refers to Konerko speaking out or the so called spies in the locker room.

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Yes, it sounds like a cheap shot to me.  What does Frank's position in the lineup have to do with Foulke's role on the Sox?  Just shut up and play the game.  We are capable of sorting it out.

You almost wonder if these people are just pissed the Sox dealt them or if they have legit complaints.

 

I know most of the Sox seem to love the team and organization.

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Part of it might be the "sports writer syndrome."  You know, if they hang around you long enough, you will eventually say something stupid, and it gets printed.  Bring Frank Thomas into the equation was stupid.

It also looked to me like those quotes could of been taken out of context. I'm referring to his very last quotes.

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I think it is a stretch to conclude that the last quote is definitely a reference to Thomas. I agree with Jasons assessment earlier in the thread. This is an example of why some athletes eventually cease speaking to the media. This to me is someone trying to create his own story.

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...my belief that Manuel is an asshole that needs to shutup.

 

He goes out and tells people this is what they have to do to get there job back and when they do it, he just ignores them.  I remember he kept saying Foulke was the closer, then he never even would come into close another game.  It was really ridiculous.

but as the article says, "Foulke rebounded to post a 0.74 ERA after the All-Star break. But he didn't close again until mid-September because his replacements were lights out. Antonio Osuna and Damaso Marte combined for 21 saves in 23 chances over the season's final three months."

 

Hard to argue with 21 of 23. Timing is everything and Foulke's timing sucked and reclaiming the closer spot was impossible with 21 out of 23 as his replacement. And thus Foulke contributed in a very positive way and that's baseball. I don't think this reflects badly on Manuel.

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...my belief that Manuel is an asshole that needs to shutup.

 

He goes out and tells people this is what they have to do to get there job back and when they do it, he just ignores them.  I remember he kept saying Foulke was the closer, then he never even would come into close another game.  It was really ridiculous.

but as the article says, "Foulke rebounded to post a 0.74 ERA after the All-Star break. But he didn't close again until mid-September because his replacements were lights out. Antonio Osuna and Damaso Marte combined for 21 saves in 23 chances over the season's final three months."

 

Hard to argue with 21 of 23. Timing is everything and Foulke's timing sucked and reclaiming the closer spot was impossible with 21 out of 23 as his replacement. And thus Foulke contributed in a very positive way and that's baseball. I don't think this reflects badly on Manuel.

Thats a great point Vince and I didn't think of it that way. Still, don't you think Jerry could of went up to Keith and said hey, "I'm going to stick with this bullpen by comittee. They too have worked hard and I can't deny their numbers or yours. Either way your an intragal part to this bullpen and I'm proud to see that you've got things figured out. Don't worry, you'll get your innings and your chances. "

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And in what appears to be a veiled criticism of Thomas, Foulke spoke of the Sox's unpleasant clubhouse atmosphere.

 

"A lot of things that went on there should have been stopped, and it wasn't," Foulke said. "That was kind of the demise of the team.

 

"I'll leave it at that. I'm happy to be in Oakland."

Either this guy is an incredibly poor writer who didn't explain the possible text from Foulke beforehand or he's really stretching and assuming that Foulke was talking about Big Frank.

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Guest hotsoxchick1

well in all honesty the only cheap shot i see being tossed was in johnsons comment.......

 

Catcher Mark Johnson, who also was dealt to Oakland in the December deal for Billy Koch, said Foulke should not have been demoted.

 

"When Frank Thomas goes through an 0-for-20 slump, you don't take him out," Johnson said. "You work through it."

 

in all reality i would take that as a pot shot...no one takes frank out but they do tend to make others sit the bench.. ask cw's boy clayton about that one lol.........

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well in all honesty the only cheap shot i see being tossed was in johnsons comment.......

 

Catcher Mark Johnson, who also was dealt to Oakland in the December deal for Billy Koch, said Foulke should not have been demoted.

 

"When Frank Thomas goes through an 0-for-20 slump, you don't take him out," Johnson said. "You work through it."

 

in all reality i would take that as a pot shot...no one takes frank out but they do tend to make others sit the bench.. ask cw's boy clayton about that one lol.........

Well MJ, considering he could of went 0-60 and still had his avg above yours doesn't say much does it?

 

Oh ya, don't you think Maggs would as well.

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Guest hotsoxchick1

lol jas i didnt say i disagreed or agreed with the comment i just tried to point out to baggs the cheap shot in the article as i saw or should i say read it...... lol.......

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lol jas i didnt say i disagreed or agreed with the comment i just tried to point out to baggs the cheap shot in the article as i saw or should i say read it...... lol.......

i didnt think that was a cheap shot by johnson..i think what mark was trying to say was foulke was to the bullpen what thomas was to the lineup..and when frank went in a slump you didnt replace himand the same should have been extended to foulke...atleast thats how i saw it..

 

i think mark was taking a shot at JM not FT

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Guest hotsoxchick1

i guess one could take it that way baggs.. but then again like i said one could take it as .. well they dont pull frank out when he sucks up the joint..how come they pull me out.....wahhhh.......... dont ya think it could go that way too?????? i just guess it depends on how the whole situation came about and such.. maybe one of those you had to be there to hear the tone of the voice and see the facial expressions that went with the comments to fully understand it all...... huh.......

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I think that by attributing the comment by Foulke, to be about Thomas, without anything more substantial than what was printed, was a cheap shot by the writer. If he doesn't know, and cannot back it up with quotes, he shouldn't say that it was a shot at Thomas by Foulke, nor should he imply it. I guess the writer is pissed at Frank because Frank won't talk to the press.... and yet this is a perfect example of why.

 

As for Foulke, he had the closers job, faltered and lost it, and because the others were nailing down over 90% of the remaining save situations, he couldn't get it back. Sounds like sour grapes to me. If Keith had have nailed down 90%, then he would have a a ligitimate b****.

 

As for Johnson, he got 75 more opportunities to prove himself than he deserve. He should just shut the hell up.

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I think that by attributing the comment by Foulke, to be about Thomas, without anything more substantial than what was printed, was a cheap shot by the writer.  If he doesn't know, and cannot back it up with quotes, he shouldn't say that it was a shot at Thomas by Foulke, nor should he imply it.  I guess the writer is pissed at Frank because Frank won't talk to the press.... and yet this is a perfect example of why.

 

As for Foulke, he had the closers job, faltered and lost it, and because the others were nailing down over 90% of the remaining save situations, he couldn't get it back.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.  If Keith had have nailed down 90%, then he would have a a ligitimate b****.

 

As for Johnson, he got 75 more opportunities to prove himself than he deserve.  He should just shut the hell up.

i agree, it was bush league reporting. there should have been more of a story to support the statement.

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