Attendance was only 11,000 today!!

[Texsox]

The more I think about it the more I think TV played a big role. I also think the DH may have hurt initially. The Brewers being in the AL might have hurt a little (Yankee fans going to Milwaukee)

 

Wrigley being more "family friendly"

The stadium neighborhoods

 

It probably takes a generation to turn things around.

[BrandoFan]

Can we please do something about those huge, ugly-ass billboard signs?

 

Anything is better in their place, especially if "anything" is something refreshingly inventive and architecturally magnificent.

[BrandoFan]

My general beef is that baseball is just too f'n expensive to watch in person

 

How come Dodger, Angel, Giant, Cub, Mets, Red Sox, Cardinal, Rockies, Ranger, D-Back, Oriole fans don't b**** about the winning tradition or the average ticket price/parking/commute/schedule/weather/game-time.......and instead pack the ballpark on a frequent basis?

 

Winning? Sox were winning big-time in 2000. Couldn't draw flies without promotions - and that with some of the cheapest tickets in the MLB. Were winning in the second half of 2003 as well, and couldn't even average 25K on non-promotional days in that span. That's little over half of the old capacity.

 

One can lie to himself and timidly spin it anyway one pleases, but the NUMBERS do not lie. Sox could win 100 games this year and they STILL wouldn't dent 2.5 Mill.

 

Could it be that many Sox fans of the New Generation are simply too cheap, too demanding, too grudge-holdy and/or are not loyal enough? Or is it that there are simply not that many of them out there anymore?

 

Tex says it would take a generation to turn the tide.....Go tell that to JR and his investors.

 

So again....WHAT will it take to draw 3 Mill at USCF in 2004-2005?

 

Yep...thought so.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Could it be that many Sox fans of the New Generation are simply too cheap, too demanding, too grudge-holdy and/or are not loyal enough? Or is it that there are simply not that many of them out there anymore?

What it means is that the established SOX fan base per year is now about 1.6 MIL fans (< 20K/gm). These are the die-hards that show up every year.

In comparison the established Cub fan base is about 2.5 MIL fans (< 31K/gm).

 

When you consider that the fan base grew to nearly 3 MIL when the new park opened & then dropped less than 10% each yr after that you would have to say the new park ignited or re-established a new fan base. But then the strike came with the SOX up by 1 gm in the div & seemingly looking like the best team in baseball after losing to the WS champs the Blue Jays a year ago. Everyone in Chicago directed most of the blame of the strike to JR. When baseball resumed the SOX lost nearly 1 MIL fans due to the strike & that group has never come back.

 

So now the SOX have to compete not just with the N Siders but also all the other entertainment venues in 2004. That's not an easy thing to do without marquee players. It's a simple fact that Kerry Wood & Sosa will sell more tickets than Thomas & Buehrle. Way more. Add Cy Maddux and the interest in the team has never been higher.

 

That's not something that happens over night. That's why the SOX need to do even more to promote the team. Much more. They need to attract the casual fan who chooses between bowling, a movie, arcades, or amusements. Advertise more.

The TV advertising doesn't seem to help much so maybe try newspapers or radio ads on mainstream FM stations. Maybe advertise more on kids networks. I don't know what the answer is exactly but the team alone will not sell tickets to the park.

Winning or not it's not going to pull another 500K fans to the park.

[JUGGERNAUT]

One more thing to add: don't blame the Cell. Wrigley Field is an enigma.

Take a look at 2004 attendance. Despite some quality players on CLE

they are behind the SOX in attendance this year.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

This is proof positive that attendance is more a factor of marquee players & winning

than anything else.

 

In the absence of marquee players you have to use promotions. Lots of them.

 

If you're trying to home grow your own marquee players it takes a min of 3 consistent yrs of winning. Notice where MIN is:

#19 26,463 Minnesota

#24 23,289 Kansas City

#25 22,196 Toronto

#26 21,540 Chicago SOX

#27 21,411 Cleveland

#28 20,172 Pittsburgh

#29 19,862 Detroit

#30 12,268 Montreal

 

KC's attendance is amazing. The team has not won a div is so long & yet

having one decent exciting year has boosted the numbers.

 

For those who think the SOX play in a mid market consider this:

If they had won the division the last couple of years instead of Minn what do you

think their attendance would be this year?

 

The team is 8-4 with a BIG series vs NYY that just played Friday night in prime time on FOX. If the SOX win that series the front office better crank up the promotion machine to build on this momentum. If KC can do it in one year so can the SOX.

[BrandoFan]

Everyone in Chicago directed most of the blame of the strike to JR. When baseball resumed the SOX lost nearly 1 MIL fans due to the strike & that group has never come back.

 

Not sure if I buy this, not the 1 Mill figure anyway.....but.....f***ing bastards, betrayed the team over what ultimately amounted to owners trying to keep salaries (and by extention ticket/concession prices) from escalating to insane levels.

 

Winning or not it's not going to pull another 500K fans to the park.

 

500K? Try 1.1 Mill.

 

You make good points, JAUGGS. Especially the

 

They need to attract the casual fan who chooses between bowling, a movie, arcades, or amusements

[Gene Honda Civic]

White Sox attendance history

 

Just support Jugg's claims.

[cwsox]

Jugg's analysis is essentially right on.

 

on another point:

 

The prime benefit to winning in terms of attendance comes the year after. There is no way we can draw 3,000,000 this year even if we win it all. I am not even sure we can hold 3,000,000 with the loss of upper deck seats, maybe we can, I haven't done the math because I am not sure of our current capacity.

 

But if are very successful on the field this year it will pay off in advance sales next year.

 

2000 was a wierd season. We had some of the worst weather all spring - I remember the Saturday before Memorial Day against Cleveland, big game, it rained all day solid and just at game time it stopped. The game was played with about 20,000 less in attendance because of the rain. (I of course was there, I have been rained out - but folks who were going with me bailed because of the rain, I mean it poured all day long, no one thought the game would get in.) That was not unusual that season - that was the pattern.

 

And then beginning with Labor Day weekend our atendance dropped through the bottom. My only guess is that people need to get in a habit. For me attending is a habit. But I don't think it dawned on a lot of people that they could go to games in Septemr because they had other plans - probably picnics on the Labor Day weekend, whatever. Attendance, core attendance, is in large part a habit.

 

And of course we started off so badly in 2001 that killed the spike in attendance we should of had.

 

TV is a huge factor, as well as media word of mouth. In 1977 the word got out that it was just plain fun to be at Comiskey. And it was. And people showed because they wanted to be where the action is, it was the place to be. And the games on tv looked like fun times at the old ball park, again encouraging people to go.

 

I think our own fans let us down because we gripe about the park too much. Our prices are reasonable compared to other parks, quite reasonable compared to some. Our concession prices are very inexpensive by MLB standards. The convenience of getting in and out can't be beat. The UD was never that steep. But we like to b**** and we have not helped ourselves much by being our own worst enemy.

 

And winning isn't eveything. People should go to be with their friends and enjoy a game. That is what the Trib figured out two decades ago for their dump. It does not have to be a beer garden though, in fact I would hate it if it were, it just has to be a place where you think of going. With my friends, it is the place we meet. If that is a part of more people's lives attendance increases.

 

I agree it is not advertised enough.

[zach23]

How come Dodger, Angel, Giant, Cub, Mets, Red Sox, Cardinal, Rockies, Ranger, D-Back, Oriole fans don't b**** about the winning tradition or the average ticket price/parking/commute/schedule/weather/game-time.......and instead pack the ballpark on a frequent basis?

 

Winning? Sox were winning big-time in 2000. Couldn't draw flies without promotions - and that with some of the cheapest tickets in the MLB. Were winning in the second half of 2003 as well, and couldn't even average 25K on non-promotional days in that span. That's little over half of the old capacity. 

 

One can lie to himself and timidly spin it anyway one pleases, but the NUMBERS do not lie. Sox could win 100 games this year and they STILL wouldn't dent 2.5 Mill. 

 

Could it be that many Sox fans of the New Generation are simply too cheap, too demanding, too grudge-holdy and/or are not loyal enough? Or is it that there are simply not that many of them out there anymore?

 

Tex says it would take a generation to turn the tide.....Go tell that to JR and his investors.   

 

So again....WHAT will it take to draw 3 Mill at USCF  in 2004-2005?

 

Yep...thought so.

Someone this worried about attendance must be a season ticket holder. So what section are your seats in?

 

Yep.. thought so.

[BrandoFan]

Someone this worried about attendance must be a season ticket holder. So what section are your seats in?

 

Yep.. thought so.

I am also "worried" about AIDS epidemic in Africa.

 

I do not have AIDS (yet). Nor am I from Africa.

 

Ya dig?

[BrandoFan]

Jugg's analysis is essentially right on.

 

on another point:

 

The prime benefit to winning in terms of attendance comes the year after.  There is no way we can draw 3,000,000 this year even if we win it all.  I am not even sure we can hold 3,000,000 with the loss of upper deck seats, maybe we can, I haven't done the math because I am not sure of our current capacity.

 

But if are very successful on the field this year it will pay off in advance sales next year.

 

2000 was a wierd season.  We had some of the worst weather all spring - I remember the Saturday before Memorial Day against Cleveland, big game, it rained all day solid and just at game time it stopped.  The game was played with about 20,000 less in attendance because of the rain.  (I of course was there, I have been rained out - but folks who were going with me bailed because of the rain, I mean it poured all day long, no one thought the game would get in.)  That was not unusual that season - that was the pattern. 

 

And then beginning with Labor Day weekend our atendance dropped through the bottom.  My only guess is that people need to get in a habit.  For me attending is a habit.  But I don't think it dawned on a lot of people that they could go to games in Septemr because they had other plans - probably picnics on the Labor Day weekend, whatever.  Attendance, core attendance, is in large part a habit.

 

And of course we started off so badly in 2001 that killed the spike in attendance we should of had.

 

TV is a huge factor, as well as media word of mouth.  In 1977 the word got out that it was just plain fun to be at Comiskey.  And it was.  And people showed because they wanted to be where the action is, it was the place to be.  And the games on tv looked like fun times at the old ball park, again encouraging people to go.

 

I think our own fans let us down because we gripe about the park too much.  Our prices are reasonable compared to other parks, quite reasonable compared to some.  Our concession prices are very inexpensive by MLB standards.  The convenience of getting in and out can't be beat.  The UD was never that steep.  But we like to b**** and we have not helped ourselves much by being our own worst enemy.

 

And winning isn't eveything.  People should go to be with their friends and enjoy a game.  That is what the Trib figured out two decades ago for their dump.  It does not have to be a beer garden though, in fact I would hate it if it were, it just has to be a place where you think of going.  With my friends, it is the place we meet.  If that is a part of more people's lives attendance increases.

 

I agree it is not advertised enough.

Fine, 3 Mill is obviously unreachable.

 

How about 2.4 Mill...how many wins would it take to draw that much THIS year? Would 100 games do it?

[southsider2k5]

Fine, 3 Mill is obviusly unreachable.

 

How about 2.4 Mill...how many wins would it take to draw that much THIS year?  Would 100 games do it?

The key is to keep up the 67% winning percentage in April. To lose all of that potential attendance early, will handicap us at the trading deadline.

[zach23]

I am also "worried" about AIDS epidemic in Africa. 

 

I do not have AIDS (yet). Nor am I from Africa.   

 

Ya dig?

Yeah I dig. You are worried about things, but it is beneath you to actually do anything to help. You find it much easier to complain that nobody else is helping.

If attendance worries you so much, try going to a few games.

[cwsox]

The key is to keep up the 67% winning percentage in April.  To lose all of that potential attendance early, will handicap us at the trading deadline.

I agree that keeping the winning going will help as you say.

 

 

Just had a thought - anyone know what our marketing is on the Latino/Hispanic stantions and with the Japanese community? Although it might be hard to market Mr Zero for attendance since one never kows if he is going to be in any particular game as opposed to an everyday player like Ichiro.

[BrandoFan]

If attendance worries you so much, try going to a few games.

 

Cute. And wrong.

 

But don't let it stop you or your baitess friend from pretending that you actually know anything regarding my attending habits. It helps to know whereof you speak, and you obviously know jack.

 

Oh and...stop hijacking the topic.

[BrandoFan]

The key is to keep up the 67% winning percentage in April.  To lose all of that potential attendance early, will handicap us at the trading deadline.

The Yankee sweep would go a long way toward accomplishing that goal.

 

From there on out, it gets easier schedule-wise.

 

2.4 Mill is about 28-29K a game, not sure.

[cwsox]

if we sweep or take 2/3 we might start rolling up some increased numbers big time.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I am also "worried" about AIDS epidemic in Africa. 

 

I do not have AIDS (yet). Nor am I from Africa.   

 

Ya dig?

coughcoughadhominemcoughcough

 

/just because I've seen you accuse others of it.

[BrandoFan]

Are there plans in place to do something about those damn boards, though? If they could chop off the UD, it would be piece of cake to tear them down and build something cool there in the off-season.

[YASNY]

I just want to add to cwsox's assessment of the 2000 season being strange. The preseason expectations of that team were nothing to get excited about. And therefore, the early season attendance suffered. When the Sox came back from that wonderful road trip to Cleveland and New York, there was plenty of excitement surrounding the team, but I still don't think most people actually "believed". Later in the season, it became obvious the Sox were going to win the division so there were no "crucial" series to whet the fans appetite. Then you take into consideration that team was barely playing .500 ball in the second half and the pitching staff was being held together with duct tape and prayer. Sox fans knew the division was in the bag, yet most did not really think we'd be able to do anything in the then upcoming playoffs with the pitching staff crippled as it was. Then the next year, as cwsox said, we got off to such a bad start that all of the "magic" from the previous year was lost. Sox fan's had experienced the same type of thing in 1984.

[southsider2k5]

Are there plans in place to do something about those damn boards, though?    If they could chop off the UD, it would be piece of cake to tear them down and build something cool there in the off-season.

I SERIOUSLY doubt it. That has got to be HUGE revenue, from a team that doesn't have nearly the sponsors, as the Northsiders. Consider their prominence in the stadium and their size. I'll bet they bring in in the neighborhood of $500,000 a year, each.

[cwsox]

I just want to add to cwsox's assessment of the 2000 season being strange.  The preseason expectations of that team were nothing to get excited about.  And therefore, the early season attendance suffered.  When the Sox came back from that wonderful road trip to Cleveland and New York, there was plenty of excitement surrounding the team, but I still don't think most people actually "believed". Later in the season, it became obvious the Sox were going to win the division so there were no "crucial" series to whet the fans appetite.  Then you take into consideration that team was barely playing .500 ball in the second half and the pitching staff was being held together with duct tape and prayer.  Sox fans knew the division was in the bag, yet most did not really think we'd be able to do anything in the then upcoming playoffs with the pitching staff crippled as it was.  Then the next year, as cwsox said, we got off to such a bad start that all of the "magic" from the previous year was lost.  Sox fan's had experienced the same type of thing in 1984.

just wanted to add i that after the road trip/home series with NY and Cleveland, I started meeting people at the park who hadn't been there since 1994 -

 

the highlights of that summer were, as I recall and experienced it, the Boston game on 30 June when he hit 50 wins and no expected to have 50 wins by the end of June 30th... and then the St Louis series which brought in a lot of Cards fans -

 

but it was from the first game home in the NY/Tribe series through the weekend before Labor Day that attendnance was good. Labor Day weekend we had those wild games with being down 8-3 to Anaheim in the 8th and winning, and whoever we played the following Sunday where the score went back and forth like an arena football game - great games, no people, for the reasons YASNY suggusts.

[BrandoFan]

When the Sox came back from that wonderful road trip to Cleveland and New York, there was plenty of excitement surrounding the team, but I still don't think most people actually "believed". Later in the season, it became obvious the Sox were going to win the division so there were no "crucial" series to whet the fans appetite. Then you take into consideration that team was barely playing .500 ball in the second half and the pitching staff was being held together with duct tape and prayer. Sox fans knew the division was in the bag, yet most did not really think we'd be able to do anything in the then upcoming playoffs with the pitching staff crippled as it was

 

Poor babies, they didn't "believe"......Am I the only one who sees what's wrong with the above scenario?

 

Excuses, excuses, excuses....Now, substitute 100 wins for 95 wins in the above (let's say, Sox get a few more wins out of May), and one could STILL make a neat case why Sox fans wouldn't/shouldn't have attended in bunches in 2000.

 

See, a nice thing about this board is that die-hards post here for the most part. But the flip-side is that it's harder to get a pulse of an average Sox fan.....of which there is a majority.

[Steff]

coughcoughadhominemcoughcough

 

/just because I've seen you accuse others of it.

No way... Are you sure you're not mistaken..?

 

 

Just a word... hypocrite.

[BrandoFan]

I SERIOUSLY doubt it.  That has got to be HUGE revenue, from a team that doesn't have nearly the sponsors, as the Northsiders.  Consider their prominence in the stadium and their size.  I'll bet they bring in in the neighborhood of $500,000 a year, each.

Yeah, I realize that it's a money-maker, but is there a way to shrink them and move them around the ballpark? Don't tell me ANYONE like the views of LF and RF when looking up -- concourse is great, fan deck in CF is great, the jumbothron, etc, but the BILLBOARDS are tacky and grotesque that it begins to spoil what otherwise would have been a GREAT park to watch a game in. Not for me, but I am guessing for a lot of casual fans.

 

The RF porch will be great and will eliminate one ofthe boards. I just hope they build something in LF -- look at every cool ballpark, they always have something in the outfield.