Mathew Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Firstly, b****ing helps. It shows one cares about the team and is not afraid of expressing raw emotions. Secondly, what can be done? How about letting the Dodgers, Mets or the Yankees pay Magglio to their hearts' content? I show emotion to the team by not jumping bandwagon season after season and show raw emotion in saying I don't pay them and don't care who does. 2nd letting whoever wants to pay them is what I suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted April 17, 2004 Author Share Posted April 17, 2004 Reinsy should invoke the diminished skills clause on his ass just our of spite for all his whining. With every passing day this clown becomes more of a liability. The diminished skills clause no longer exists. It was dropped when they negotiated the current deal. I'm sure it was a major reason Frank signed this deal, to get out from under that cloud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 I show emotion to the team by not jumping bandwagon season after season and show raw emotion in saying I don't pay them and don't care who does The first one doesn't even count -- staying loyal is the least a fan can do; otherwise you can't be a real fan. And second part....If you cared about the Sox as much as you say you do, you'd know that, barring an unexpected gesture of super-generosity on Chariman's part, Sox can't afford Ordonez at the figure that is being bandied about. That's something to care about as it closely pertains to Sox' ability to field a winning team....Team, remeber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 I'll say this again for those who weren't paying attention: IT's NOT THE RAW NUMBERS, BUT RATHER THE COMPARISON TO OTHERS THAT SHOWS THE VALUE OF A PLAYER! Pointing out that Maggs has ranked in the top 11 in RPG in the AL the past 3 yrs does NOT suggest he deserves to be paid in the ranks of the top 10 that precede him. There is a MAJOR drop off in production from the top 5 to the next 5 & then the next 5 after that. Take a look & learn: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/alb03.htm #01 8.61 Delgado TOR #02 8.50 Ramirez BOS #03 8.17 A-ROD TEX #04 7.99 Nixon BOS #05 7.91 Giambi NYY #06 7.88 Thomas CHW (-09% below Delgado) #11 7.34 Magglio CHW (-18% below Delgado) If you are going to suggest that Magglio is deserving of top 10 $$$, then how can you suggest Thomas is not? http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/alb02.htm #1 10.31 Ramirez BOS #2 10.19 Thome CLE #3 09.56 Giambi NYY (-8% below Ramirez) #4 08.24 A-ROD TEX #5 08.15 Sweeney KCR #6 07.88 Magglio CHW (-31% below Ramirez) #9 07.59 Delgado TOR #22 6.10 Thomas CHW http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/alb01.htm #1 11.30 Giambi OAK #2 08.79 Thome CLE (-29%) #3 08.60 A-Rod TEX #7 07.60 Delgado TOR #11 07.20 Magglio CHW (-57%) http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/alb00.htm #1 11.77 Giambi OAK #2 11.29 Delgado TOR #3 11.20 Ramirez CLE #4 09.41 Thomas CHW #12 7.76 Sweeney KCR #23 7.10 Magglio CHW Are you seeing the pattern here? The top 10 adjust to the scale of RPG for that year. This is what separates them from the rest of the pack. In Magglio's case he doesn't adjust to the scale, but rather his 7.50 avg adjusts his rank. In other words, if Giambi & company avg around 9.00 RPG Maggs avg's around 7.00. That's about a 28% drop off in production. Even the year Thomas avg'd a 09.41 it was still a 25% drop off from the leaders. What the RPG scale shows is that when those top 5 guys suffer DL time the scale shrinks. When they are healthy the scale grows. Maggs has yet to grow with the scale in terms of production. Now this is just the AL. If you look at the NL Maggs 7.20 avg or if you prefer is 7.34 RPG of 2003 is no better than 11 either. That means there are 20 hitters in MLB baseball that have outperformed Maggs. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nlb03.htm Check any year you want & you find about the same. A player who consistently avgs betw 7.10-7.70 RPG ranks betw 11-15 in both leagues. Now consider that Maggs is making 14 MIL this year. I didn't do the NL but in the AL he's in the top 5 in $$$ for position players. Frank is not even in the top 20 at 6 MIL. There is absolutely no question based on Frank coming off a 42 HR season that he is grossly under paid this year. That stings more when the same team is paying a guy top 5 $$$. A guy you outperformed the year before. The SOX should be offering Maggs Sweeney type $ & not a dime more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 There is absolutely no question based on Frank coming off a 42 HR season that he is grossly under paid this year. Actually, there is a question. A big-ass question. Literally. Frank is almost 36, overweight, had a serious injury not long ago. Today he has a 950 OPS at 5 Million. Tomorrow he succumbs to age-related chronic back pain and barely plays at 6 Mill. Do you understand why Frank's "value" may not be anywhere near 10 Mil per? I am sure I mentioned it, Edgar Martinez had 960 OPS in a pitcher's park last year up until he broke his foot in late August. He is making 3 Mill, which is 1/25 of his team's payroll. Don't compare Frank to Delgado's 20 Mill per -- nobody pays obscene amounts anymore. David Ortiz had a 900+ OPS last year at 3 Mill and he is a wholalot younger than Frank, playing for a big-money team like the Red Sox. And yet he still can't make what Frank makes today. Frank's intristic value is no longer where he thinks it is. Neither is Maggs's, but at least he is not as delusional as Frank when it comes to what non-Sox teams will pay him; Sox can't pay Magglio his 14 Mill, but you can bet your ass somebody ELSE will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Maggs comes before Frank by far, we can't afford to loose Maggs stats and power he brings to this team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSHarris1 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 frank will dislioke ozzie again if he gets traded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSHarris1 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 frank will dislioke ozzie again if he gets traded we gotta keep maggs on our team were done if we dont have him. or well be outta playoff territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I'm not trying to be a dick here, just to explain how the media works. I am a sportswriter, have been one forever. We ask guys like Big Hurt questions. They sometimes, usually answer. The Daily Southtown guy, who is a good writer, asked Hurt about his contract. Hurt didn't call him over. Hurt didn't say, "Joe let's chat contract." Hurt responded to Joe's questions! Belive me, it's true!! Hurt in my mind is not whining. He said he'd keep playing. He just said he thought he was getting screwed. I think that's fair. And in this day and age of greed and talking to the media about money, I think Hurt was fine, as Maggs has done fine. Remember, it's the f***ign MEDIA, OF WHICH I know better than anybody, I've been a writer 25 years, that is asking the questions. Hurt and Maggs are just answering and I believe answering fairly with due respect to the sox management and the great fans. Agree or disagree?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Agree totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Thanx Yasny! I've always respected your posts also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I totally agree, and it's nice to have someone on the board part of the media that can help us see that point of view. I kind of figured that it could have been quoted in that manner. I appreciate you pointing that out Greg because I unfortunately feel this won't be the last we hear of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Agree or disagree?? Look, most reasonable people here understand the media dynamic. Nobody suggests Frank hunted anyone down just to make that comment. That still doesn't mean his asnwers are impervious to criticism. That still doesn't change the fact that he is not worth anywhere near the amount he is looking for -- when you use words like "disrespect" publicly, you're clearly not even close to being happy with your 6 Mill today and 8 Mill tomorrow. Compounded by his HISTORY of putting foot in mouth. Frank is not Mike Tyson -- he is actually sane and smart, so he is judged by a different standard, by me anyway. I was one of the suckers who thought Frank really has changed. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I really think Frank IS trying to change. Everything he's said this year has been team oriented, and I'm not going to hold one quote, taken out of context, against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I'm not trying to be a dick here, just to explain how the media works. I am a sportswriter, have been one forever. We ask guys like Big Hurt questions. They sometimes, usually answer. The Daily Southtown guy, who is a good writer, asked Hurt about his contract. Hurt didn't call him over. Hurt didn't say, "Joe let's chat contract." Hurt responded to Joe's questions! Belive me, it's true!! Hurt in my mind is not whining. He said he'd keep playing. He just said he thought he was getting screwed. I think that's fair. And in this day and age of greed and talking to the media about money, I think Hurt was fine, as Maggs has done fine. Remember, it's the f***ign MEDIA, OF WHICH I know better than anybody, I've been a writer 25 years, that is asking the questions. Hurt and Maggs are just answering and I believe answering fairly with due respect to the sox management and the great fans. Agree or disagree?? agree totally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I really think Frank IS trying to change. Everything he's said this year has been team oriented, and I'm not going to hold one quote, taken out of context, against him. What was taken out of context Yas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 What was taken out of context Yas? It was more of a case of Mariotti's commentary changing the context of the quote. He did, in fact, use the whole quote. But, with the way he surrounded it with his "selfishness" type comments, it just wasn't right. I mean, a reporter asks a question, it gets answered honestly, but this dirtbag takes the quote and twists it to his own selfish agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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