Bush finally gets one right!

[israel4ever]

By agreeing with Ariel Sharon's plan of unilateral withdrwal from Gaza, and denying the "Palestinian refugees" the "Right of Return", Bush showed that even he can get something right.

 

Bush also said that the "Security Fence" is legal, and a necessary measure to prevent terrorist attacks.

 

As much as it pains me to say so, The Prez should be commended for these decisions.

 

[southsider2k5]

So is that important enough to you to get you to change your vote to Bush? Just curious, as we all know John Kerry won't support Israel nearly this much.

[israel4ever]

Israel is an important issue to me; probably the most important one. But, it's not the only issue.

 

I am pro-choice and pro-environment. Bush has screwed up the economy, his foreign relations are a joke, he lied about WMD re. Iraq.

 

I will be voting for Kerry; I have confidence that he is the better candidate, and will do alright by Israel.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

By agreeing with Ariel Sharon's plan of unilateral withdrwal from Gaza, and denying the "Palestinian refugees" the "Right of Return", Bush showed that even he can get something right.

 

Bush also said that the "Security Fence" is legal, and a necessary measure to prevent terrorist attacks.

 

As much as it pains me to say so, The Prez should be commended for these decisions.

 

Where have you been?? Bush has been one of the most pro-isreal presidents in History. I haven't seen or even heard of a prez that has toed Isreals line as much as Bush has.

[israel4ever]

Where have you been??  Bush has been one of the most pro-isreal presidents in History.  I haven't seen or even heard of a prez that has toed Isreals line as much as Bush has.

He HAS been a supporter, probably it's staunchest supporter since Raegan, but, he only supports up to a point.

 

For example, when he criticizes Israel for assassinating Yassin, and other targeted assassinations, he is not supporting Israel, especially when "he" did the same thing with Hussein's sons.

 

When he makes statements like, The Security Fence is an impediment to peace, he is not supporting Israel.

 

When he cozies up to the Saudis, he is not being supportive of Israel.

 

I think Bush supports Israel to appease the Christian Right, and to try to woo the Jewish vote.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

He HAS been a supporter, probably it's staunchest supporter since Raegan, but, he only supports up to a point.

 

For example, when he criticizes Israel for assassinating Yassin, and other targeted assassinations, he is not supporting Israel, especially when "he" did the same thing with Hussein's sons.

 

When he makes statements like, The Security Fence is an impediment to peace, he is not supporting Israel.

 

When he cozies up to the Saudis, he is not being supportive of Israel.

 

I think Bush supports Israel to appease the Christian Right, and to try to woo the Jewish vote.

He supports a Jewish state to appease Christians? Somehow that doesn't make any sense.

[israel4ever]

He supports a Jewish state to appease Christians? Somehow that doesn't make any sense.

To the best of my knowledge (key point, I don't know for sure!) the Christians believe that Israel cannot fall under Muslim control if Jesus is to resurrect.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Queen Prawn]

To the best of my knowledge (key point, I don't know for sure!) the Christians believe that Israel cannot fall under Muslim control if Jesus is to resurrect.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's been awhile since I've gone to Church, but I have no memory of that being said or taught. Maybe that's in another arm of Christianity...

[israel4ever]

I said I don't know...I have NEVER studied the New Testament.

[Queen Prawn]

I said I don't know...I have NEVER studied the New Testament.

And I said that I never heard that . Relax, will ya?

[israel4ever]

I was just saying I don't know.

 

Everything's cool.

 

[Texsox]

The Book of Revelation is possibly the most studied, and twisted Book in the New Testament. Of course the legion of "Doomsday Prophets" and Cult Leaders all have a certain affinity for Revelation. Given enough time, anything from the Twin Towers to the Water Tower could be "proven".

 

IMHO, every person should read Revelation and reach their own conclusion.

[Queen Prawn]

Right now I am reading 'The Da Vinci Code.'

 

Very interesting read.

[southsider2k5]

Right now I am reading 'The Da Vinci Code.'

 

Very interesting read.

I have actually read both of the bible code books, that the Da Vinci Code was based on. It is interesting stuff.

[Queen Prawn]

I have actually read both of the bible code books, that the Da Vinci Code was based on.  It is interesting stuff.

That's next on my agenda actually!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

He HAS been a supporter, probably it's staunchest supporter since Raegan, but, he only supports up to a point.

 

For example, when he criticizes Israel for assassinating Yassin, and other targeted assassinations, he is not supporting Israel, especially when "he" did the same thing with Hussein's sons.

 

When he makes statements like, The Security Fence is an impediment to peace, he is not supporting Israel.

 

When he cozies up to the Saudis, he is not being supportive of Israel.

 

I think Bush supports Israel to appease the Christian Right, and to try to woo the Jewish vote.

I am totally with you there. Bush is a hypocrite for condemning the assassination of terrorists when we are actively and openly trying to do the same thing. We are not, nor should we be, the only country with a terrorist hunting license with a no-bag limit.

 

Along those same lines I was incredulous when he condemmed Russia for aggressively targeting Chechen terrorists earlier this year.

 

He needs to get on the same sheet of music with the allies because the more fronts we attack these scumbags from the better off we will be in the end.

[israel4ever]

My point is (was) that there is a huge Christian Zionist bloc in the US.

[israel4ever]

I am totally with you there.  Bush is a hypocrite for condemning the assassination of terrorists when we are actively and openly trying to do the same thing.  We are not, nor should we be, the only country with a terrorist hunting license with a no-bag limit. 

 

Along those same lines I was incredulous when he condemmed Russia for aggressively targeting Chechen terrorists earlier this year. 

 

He needs to get on the same sheet of music with the allies because the more fronts we attack these scumbags from the better off we will be in the end.

Right on, Nuke.

 

[JUGGERNAUT]

Addressing all pts discussed:

Religious implications: It is true that Israel must remain in control of Jerusalem to fullfill some of the end time prophecies.

 

Why did he chance his stance on this issue?

We all know Bush hates to read, so obviously some one brought to his attention the economic impact if israel was to give up all of the West Bank to pre-1948 borders.

 

Economically this is pretty simple. The settlements today add X $'s to the world economy. Swapping the settlements for Palestinians will add Y $'s to the world economy. X >> Y, so there is no real value in doing so.

 

What is better for the US? A militant Palestinian state closer to the only democracy in the region or fortifying the only democracy in the region?

 

That's an educated general point of view.

 

Here's a personal one:

F the Palestinians! I went to school with the murderous son's of b****es!

Not only did they work the system to get the govt to pay but they also miked the GSL program to STEAL 1000's that they never intended to pay back.

 

They were so F'g arrogant in their hatred towards the Jews that they did not hide the fact that they were going for ME & EE degrees so that they would be better at bomb making at home.

 

If you think this is anything BUT hatred towards the Jews, you are CRAZY!

 

Did you not see on the news this week the many 10's of 1000's of mosques in India & Pakistan that teach nothing but memorization of every line in the Koran? If you think the majority of Muslims in this world are rational, pro-democracy, & pro-capitalist people then I suggest you continue memorizing the Koran!

 

It's funny, because when I heard this I said to myself well there's a group of people

that will never be qualified for outsourcing!

[JUGGERNAUT]

Right on, Nuke.

 

Once again there is a need for an intelligent response.

If the same sheet of music does not lead to greater wealth, security, or prosperity for the US then has top dog above & beyond any one else F the aliies.

 

Of course which allies are you referring to?

Are you talking about the ones intimately involved in the Oil for Food scandal that's painted UN as nothing more than a whore recently?

It's kind of hard to get UN backing to oust a murderous dictator when that dictator has essentially bought the votes against you.

 

There is only one thing that will bring the aliies to this war: terrorism in their own countries. Anything short of that & they will play the fence like they always do.

 

What's more, is that the strategic importance of Germany & France in the modern world has diminished considerably. Iraq has a far greater strategic importance to the US then either of these countries.

 

Perhaps, we can't get allie support because the mere thought of a democracy built on LARGE oil reserves in the middle east scares the living s*** out of them & their socialist way of life. Heaven help the French if Iraq should become an economic power in the region in the next 10 years. How would they be able t sustain their 30 hour work weeks when the capitalist driven Iraqi's are working 50 hour weeks?

 

Perhaps the fact of the US having a large military presence in iraq for decades to come scares the s*** out of them. It's not beyond reason to believe that the US could establish both major air & naval bases near Iraq. It's further not beyond reason that with a continous presence in the region the US would have first strike capability against every threat in Europe & Central Asia.

 

That's why any comparison to Iraq as another Vietnam is stupid.

Vietnam had ZERO strategic importance to the region. S Korea had greater importance than Vietnam. As it is how do you lose a war in which you protected

the democracy of S Vietnam? Was that not the whole point to the war in the first place? In any case if you were to compare these countries to chess pcs .. Vietnam was just a pawn .. probably protecting a knight. But Iraq is like a Bishop. As long the US maintains the ability to station a large expansive force in Iraq, those that oppose will remain scared s***less.

 

Do you not wonder that during this entire conflict the Saudi's have all but been silent?

This coming from a nation that in the last military assessment considered Saudi Arabia one of the toughest military strongholds to defeat.

[israel4ever]

I agree with you "110%" about the "Palestinians"; they are scum.

 

I think that the reason Sharon is going to put 'em all in Gaza, is so that he can keep 'em all in one place, and not let them be dispersed around Israel.

 

If that were to occur, and then you let them have their independant nation, and cut them off from any (all) Israeli businesses, infrastructure, etc. and let them be self-sufficient, you would see their (the "palis") state crumble faster than stale crackers. They are too stupid and technologically retarded to be able to survive on their own.

[JUGGERNAUT]

One more thing about our so-called need for bankrupt allies:

There have been papers written wrt to the US & the World economy that strongly suggest the US does not need these so called allies for trade any more.

 

These papers discuss the vast potential that lies in the W Hemisphere vs the need for the US to maintain trade relations with the E Hemisphere. The conclusions are significant: drastically reduced trade deficit, stronger economies in Latin America, greater potential for what is called import-export swaps, greater security in the hemispehere as economies will be linked to one another, & greater potenital for human rights & wage equality.

 

So the need for Eastern allies from an economic perspective is weakening as well.

 

Now of course all these papers are nice & of course we all appreciate the people who take the time to write them but they don't mean squat when the Microsoft's of the world run the world. As long as they can make the most profit with the slaves in the East there will be no change. Wages in the US will deflate under the pressure & the MS's of the world will turn to new economies for profits. They won't give a s*** about the US economy or standard of living.

 

That's the only real truth.

[israel4ever]

Here are some intersting articles/websites for you to read. Enjoy.

 

http://aggressive-voice.com/zz623.html

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=12903

 

ID=12857

 

 

And one for Apu, read the following article, then invite Walid Shoebat to speak at your University.

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=12855

 

Or do a Google Search on "Walid Shoebat".