cwsox Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Hey, if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question. whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 How many games can you win with ZERO run support??? The way Danny was pitching, he "deserved" to get tagged for 5-6 ER easy. You can't expect Sox to score 5-6 runs in every road game just to tie it up. Paul Abbott was getting his breaker over, Sox needed Danny to come through for once against a weak-hitting team. He tanked badly. Stop making excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 So? How? Very f***ing simple: Had a 6.00 ERA in the first half. Sox fell out of contention. In pressure-free situations, Danny stopped sucking badly and somehow managed to bring it down to still bad 5.20. In 2003 he was even worse -- much worse. This year, worse still. Boring, eh? Tell me, how do you like losing the s***tiest division that ever s***tied by a few games in September partly because a mental gimp choker scumbag Wright is missing strikezone by feet and is afraid of his own shadow? I bet you find it exciting, don't you? If you cheer for him like you cheer for Jose...please don't. If your a sox fan you cheer for every man on the roster. I'm not a fan of danny in the rotation either, but I want him always to do well, I want the sox to win. I don't want to put words in cwsox's mouth, but of course he wants danny to win, danny is on the sox, I'm not sure if cwsox likes danny or not but he wants the sox to win, and if your a real sox fan you should cheer for him too, not root against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 But when everyone is screaming I can't hear a word. A typical Brando post; a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 If Danny gives up only 3 runs in every outing he makes, I'd take that. He doesn't deserve to be 0-2, Loaiza's pitched as bad as him so far this year, and he's 2-0, only because he's had run support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 If your a sox fan you cheer for every man on the roster. I'm not a fan of danny in the rotation either, but I want him always to do well, I want the sox to win. I don't want to put words in cwsox's mouth, but of course he wants danny to win, danny is on the sox, I'm not sure if cwsox likes danny or not but he wants the sox to win, and if your a real sox fan you should cheer for him too, not root against him. Yes, because well-deserved criticism is = rooting against a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 If you cheer for him like you cheer for Jose...please don't. To me that says your not cheering for a guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 A typical Brando post; a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. If you can't debate the facts, rip into the poster. Blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 If you can't debate the facts, rip into the poster. Blah. Don't flatter yourself so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Don't flatter yourself so much. How did he flatter himself? You pretty much called him stupid because you don't agree with what he posted. That is a pretty weak thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 How did he flatter himself? You pretty much called him stupid because you don't agree with what he posted. That is a pretty weak thing to do. Whatever, he sounds like a broken record most of the time on here. I'm sure he enjoys the attention though, it seems to be what he lives for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Lets get some things straight. No one is rooting against Wright. As Sox fans we want every Sox player to excel, but thats just not how things happen. Some players just don't have the talent to play everyday in the majors, and there is nothing wrong with getting on their case when they don't play well. Its a business, and if one of us didn't perform well at work, than we should suffer the consequences(being fired in most cases), and struggling major leaguers should be no different. Wright isn't a good pitcher, and its that simple. Please don't give me that 14 win BS, because you guys should be smart enough to realize that wins are a terrible way to judge how effective a pitcher is. When people say that he has potential, I think they mean the potential to give up the longball, because thats all he has done over his career. Combine that with his high walk total, and you have a pitcher with a high ERA who shouldn't be in the majors. I think the Sox should move him to the pen. He pitched pretty decent in that role last year. Move either Cotts or Rauch into the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted April 17, 2004 Author Share Posted April 17, 2004 Keep marching DW out there and please play Rowand everyday the potential these 2 guys NEVER will show is amazing. Keep waiting for the breakthrough that will never come. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Keep marching DW out there and please play Rowand everyday the potential these 2 guys NEVER will show is amazing. Keep waiting for the breakthrough that will never come. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Keep marching DW out there and please play Rowand everyday the potential these 2 guys NEVER will show is amazing. Keep waiting for the breakthrough that will never come. :puke i just saved that post... There was a thread on here last week about how noone forsaw Kip wells being any good... He had simillar control problems, and was shown the same love by the fans that DW is recieving now... You may get you wish... He may just go away, nad blossom into a good pitcher for another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted April 17, 2004 Author Share Posted April 17, 2004 i just saved that post... There was a thread on here last week about how noone forsaw Kip wells being any good... He had simillar control problems, and was shown the same love by the fans that DW is recieving now... You may get you wish... He may just go away, nad blossom into a good pitcher for another team. Glad you saved it be sure to talk about it when one is out of the rotation and the other on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 I am always amused by people who say wins count for nothing. Yeah, say DW's 145 wins in 2002 are bs. Say it all one wants. Clap your hand and Tinker Bell will live! This is not figure skating where you get points for style. It is about wins and losses. Danny has a 14 win season. That is reality. He has struggled, That is realty. He pitched a 3 run game, gave up three walks. Would we have won if he only gave up 2 runs or 1 run? No, we would have lost. The lack of offense cost us this game. The Sox had three big games and a long flight and it was one of those things. But tonight Danny put us in position to win, if only we hit and scored. There are ways to critique a player and those are informative as we evaluate. Bashing however makes no point. (And winning is the stat that counts despite anyone saying it is a meaningless stat.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Glad you saved it be sure to talk about it when one is out of the rotation and the other on the bench. Aaron will be fine; don't drag him into the puddle of choke and chaos where DannyBog is currently splashin' around. Aaron, even at his near-fatal crash worst, was still an average ML'er. Whereas Danny never came close to being an averahe ML'er, and yet he's received twice as much hype and benefit of the doubt since 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted April 17, 2004 Author Share Posted April 17, 2004 Aaron will be fine; don't drag him into the puddle of choke and chaos where DannyBog is currently splashin' around. Aaron, even at his near-fatal crash worst, was still an average ML'er. Whereas Danny never came close to being an averahe ML'er, and yet he's received twice as much hype and benefit of the doubt since 2001. AR rides with DW in the sit your ass down boat. The hype for AR from Sox has been sicking for this hack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 If you can't debate the facts, rip into the poster. Blah. lol, I proved and showed facts about the Konerko/Perez post, and all you could come up with was "little s***". So, speak for yourself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 I am always amused by people who say wins count for nothing. Yeah, say DW's 145 wins in 2002 are bs. Say it all one wants. Calp your hand and Tinker Bell will live! This is not figure skating where you get points for style. It is about wins and losses. Danny has a 14 win season. That is reality. He has struggled, That is realty. He pitched a 3 run game, gave up three walks. Would we have won if he only gave up 2 runs or 1 run? No, we would have lost. The lack of offense cost us this game. The Sox had three big games and a long flight and it was one of those things. But tonight Danny put us in position to win, if only we hit and scored. There are ways to critique a player and those are informative as we evaluate. Bashing however makes no point. (And winning is the stat that counts despite anyone saying it is a meaningless stat.) Wins aren't a good stat for judging how effective a pitcher is. Its that simple old man. A pitcher that wins 20 games with a 6.00 ERA because he has a great bullpen, defense, and offense(in other words plays for the Yankees) isn't a better pitcher(or more effective for that matter) than a pitcher that wins 10 games with a 3.00 ERA because he has a terrible bullpen, defense, and offense. Yet, with the crackhead logic that you use you would argue otherwise. Yes wins and loses are the only things that matter, but thats a team stat that relies heavily on how te team plays. The team determines if they win or lose(errors, run support, bullpens, luck, ect all things a starting pitcher has no control over), and a starting pitcher is a small part of the team. The stat that measures a pitchers effectiveness the best is ERA, since the amount of EARNED RUNS are the only aspect that he can control. Only old guys like you who have hit the crack pipe one too many times believe that wins are the best way to measure a pitchers effectiveness. Keep running Wright out their every 5th day because you think he is a good pitcher(as you think his 14 wins indicate), and than you question why this TEAM has gotten nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Wins aren't a good stat for judging how effective a pitcher is. Its that simple old man. A pitcher that wins 20 games with a 6.00 ERA because he has a great bullpen, defense, and offense(in other words plays for the Yankees) isn't a better pitcher(or more effective for that matter) than a pitcher that wins 10 games with a 3.00 ERA because he has a terrible bullpen, defense, and offense. Yet, with the crackhead logic that you use you would argue otherwise. Yes wins and loses are the only things that matter, but thats a team stat that relies heavily on how te team plays. The team determines if they win or lose(errors, run support, bullpens, luck, ect all things a starting pitcher has no control over), and a starting pitcher is a small part of the team. The stat that measures a pitchers effectiveness the best is ERA, since the amount of EARNED RUNS are the only aspect that he can control. Only old guys like you who have hit the crack pipe one too many times believe that wins are the best way to measure a pitchers effectiveness. Keep running Wright out their every 5th day because you think he is a good pitcher(as you think his 14 wins indicate), and than you question why this TEAM has gotten nowhere. Wow..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 AR rides with DW in the sit your ass down boat. The hype for AR from Sox has been sicking for this hack. I agree with Brando on this one. Rowand has at least proven to be an average major leaguer(as his .742 career OPS and solid D would indicate). Wright on the other hand has proven nothing. His career ERA of 5.55 is down right terrible any way that you slice it. In regards to the guy that compared Wells to Wright, you need to understand that for every Wells that develops into a decent starter there are 10 other youngsters with decent potential that never make it, so don't pretend that Wells is the norm and compare every struggling youngster to him. Furthermore, Wells numbers were quite a bit better that Wright's numbers when they were both 25, so thats really not a good comparison. I think you have to accept the fact that not all of the Sox young pitchers are going to develop into solid major league pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Wow..... I might have gone a little overboard there, but cwsox is an old stubborn man who is unwilling to see things any other way than his own. If you asked 100 experts which is a better stat to judge a how good/effective a pitcher is(wins or ERA), I guarantee that the overwhelming majority, if not every single one of them would say ERA. Win and loses are a team stat that a pitcher has very little control over, yet cwsox things its a better indication of how good a pitcher is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Wins aren't a good stat for judging how effective a pitcher is. Its that simple old man. A pitcher that wins 20 games with a 6.00 ERA because he has a great bullpen, defense, and offense(in other words plays for the Yankees) isn't a better pitcher(or more effective for that matter) than a pitcher that wins 10 games with a 3.00 ERA because he has a terrible bullpen, defense, and offense. Yet, with the crackhead logic that you use you would argue otherwise. Yes wins and loses are the only things that matter, but thats a team stat that relies heavily on how te team plays. The team determines if they win or lose(errors, run support, bullpens, luck, ect all things a starting pitcher has no control over), and a starting pitcher is a small part of the team. The stat that measures a pitchers effectiveness the best is ERA, since the amount of EARNED RUNS are the only aspect that he can control. Only old guys like you who have hit the crack pipe one too many times believe that wins are the best way to measure a pitchers effectiveness. Keep running Wright out their every 5th day because you think he is a good pitcher(as you think his 14 wins indicate), and than you question why this TEAM has gotten nowhere. I don't think W-L is "meaningless" (let's face it, some pitchers are more clutch than others and have consistently outperfomed their ERA peers in W-L category....alas, Danny Wright is not one of those tough pitchers), but I do think it's HIGHLY overrated. I also agree with the "and then you wonder why the TEAM has gotten nowhere" part. If you think about 2003, you could literally make a case for a single player killing the team -- when teams are as closely matched up in talent as Sox were with Twins, little things like using DW two times too many or not benching Konerko/Koch quickly enough are the difference between playing in the postseason....and not. And the worst part is that DW is incomparably better in the bullpen -- his volocity and break are crisper and hitters can't time him as well without seeing him more than once. Whereas as a starter.....Did you see his two homers to "super-men" Lugo and Crawford? The first one was a knee high 89 mph fastball on the inner half and the second one was an 88 mph thigh-high SMACK in the middle of the damn plate. Both had little movement. As if that wasn't enough, judging by the hitters' reaction, he may have TELEGRAPHED the pitch when he released it, Billy Koch-style. I am sorry, but that's batting practice at the ML level -- hell it's batting practice in single-A. That he only gave up 3 ER was pure luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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