UPDATE: on Maggs contract situation

[Flash Tizzle]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, he lives in Miami in the offseason.

Possible he lives in both. When the Maggs/Nomar trade discussions began the Sun Times ran a quote of Maggs from Valenzuela. It said he spends his offseasons there.

[SoxAce]

Valenzuela is his home country. He visits there during the offseason for charity and such. He lives in Miami though with his wife and kids.

[cwsox]

Valenzuela  (posted by many)

I thought Valenzuela was from Mexico.

 

Wonder which is safer, VENEZUELA or Miami?

[False Alarm]

i haven't glanced at the stats and don't feel like looking them up right now, but i'm pretty sure vlad's been better (offensively) over the years. that said--and this is pretty much a hunch--i think maggs generally will be better than vlad over the next five years. i could see vlad tailing off a little earlier than most players cuz of his back, whereas i could see maggs being one of those who guys who's steady (or even improves some) well into his 30s. pretty much just bar talk though; maybe magglio'll hit .185 with 4 HR and a pair of RBI at age 31. anyway, i hope the sox keep him.

[BrandoFan]

10, 12, 10 and 7.

 

Contrary to the popular belief, a fielder's job is NOT to avoid errors, but to save

as many bases as possible.

 

Guerrero has had more range and a stronger arm than Magglio for at least 2 years now. He's averaged a few more errors, but he also prevented more runners from reaching on/advancing.

 

He may not be a much better defensive player than Magglio, but he is better.

 

If Vlad is a 14-15 Mill a year player in today's market, Magglio is 12-13. Too bad Sox can't pay that either, unless a bunch of it is back-loaded and deferred. Which is not gonna happen.

 

I don't blame Maggs here. I file it under "that's life".

[KevHead0881]

Contrary to the popular belief, a fielder's job is NOT to avoid errors, but to save

as many bases as possible.   

 

Guerrero has had more range and a stronger arm than Magglio for at least 2 years now. He's averaged a few more errors, but he also prevented more runners from reaching on/advancing.

 

He may not be a much better defensive player than Magglio, but he is better.

 

If Vlad is a 14-15 Mill a year player in today's market, Magglio is 12-13.    Too bad Sox can't pay that either, unless a bunch of it is back-loaded and deferred.  Which is not gonna happen. 

 

I don't blame Maggs here. I file it under "that's life".

But, by that logic, that would make Valentin a great defensive shortstop. He's got a strong arm and great range. I'd say that as an outfielder, most of Vlad's errors aren't just dropping the ball. I'd be willing to bet that most of his errors are throwing errors (as is with most outfielders). And like that hot dog on the north side, Vlad isn't known for hitting the cut-off man. Either way, an error is another word for a "fielding gaffe", or mistake if you will. And many times errors cost teams runs (I refer you back to our boy Jose). His totals are also much higher than any year Carlos Lee has had, and CLee's fielding use to be comical.

 

I'm not saying that Maggs is as good as Vlad. I'm just saying that the difference isn't big enough to say that Maggs isn't worth close to Vlad money. And I don't even think there is much to argue about here. Maggs is a great player and means a ton to this organization. It will look aweful if we end up losing him no matter how much he asks for, and 90% of Sox fans will s*** a brick if he goes.

 

Sincerely,

Bill Long

[BrandoFan]

But, by that logic, that would make Valentin a great defensive shortstop

 

Funny you should mention that...

 

http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/gg2003.htm

 

As far as missing cut-off men....I've seen Magglio blow 3 plays at home Sammy Sosa style in 1 gamea year or two ago. He didn't get a single error but at least 2 of them should have been thrown out if the crisp throw is made. And that wasn't the only game, just the most extreme example.

 

Last 2 years, his throws had less velocity and less accuracy and his range has suffered as well (as has his baserunnig, but that's another story); just because Maggs is less physically gifted and less aggressive than Vlad in the field in the last 2 years, doesn't mean he is better.

 

People don't run on Vlad nearly as much as they do on Maggs. The preventive value is higher but iyou won't find it judging by the fielding %, not even close.

[Reddy]

Funny you should mention that...

 

http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/gg2003.htm

 

ya know thats actually pretty interesting... and makes sense... maybe jose's not quite as bad as we think... cwsox should read this article

[Chisoxfn]

Funny you should mention that...

 

http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/gg2003.htm

 

As far as missing cut-off men....I've seen Magglio blow 3 plays at home Sammy Sosa style in 1 gamea year or two ago. He didn't get a single error but at least 2 of them should have been thrown out if the crisp throw is made.  And that wasn't the only game, just the most extreme example.

 

Last 2 years, his throws had less velocity and less accuracy and his range has suffered as well (as has his baserunnig, but that's another story);  just because Maggs is less physically gifted and less aggressive than Vlad in the field in the last 2 years, doesn't mean he is better.

 

People don't run on Vlad nearly as much as they do on Maggs.  The preventive value is higher but iyou won't find it judging by the fielding %, not even close.

Oh god Brando, I saw that and just thought ah cripes...now I have to hear you talk about Jose

 

I agree with kev that defensively Vladdy may be a little overrated, but he saves a whole lot of runs with his arm. I've seen numerous times already in the early part of the season where with any other outfielder the runner goes, but with Vlad they sit their and it saves the Angels a run. He definately makes errors, but he also has good range for a right fielder and does a lot of things.

 

Overall I give him a nod over Maggs. And when healthy, he is a stinking stud offensively. Holy macoral he hits the ball hard. Hit another bomb last night and his homers are just screaming line drives. Plus, I don't think Maggs has had one season with a .1000 OPS or higher and Vladdy has had three. He's also had a career .322 AVG, and he's had seasons of 40 and 37 stolen bases. RBI wise, maggs has had some years just as good as Vlad, but also has had a ton of weapons around him.

 

Vlads got protection this year and I think he will have his best year EVER.

[Chisoxfn]

Let me say one thing about that article...Valentin was way better then Eckstein defensively last year. Eck has horrible range and is piss poor at turning a double play.

[BrandoFan]

Let me say one thing about that article...Valentin was way better then Eckstein defensively last year.  Eck has horrible range and is piss poor at turning a double play.

Nobody says Valentin can make 35 errors and be a good SS; his range is not THAT good anymore.

 

But 20-25 errors you could definately live with. Not Vizquel-ian brilliance. Not even as good as A-Rod. But more than tolerable.

[Chisoxfn]

Agreed, I'm assuming right now he's in a rut mechanically with his arm. But usually he hits a streak where he is awful and then goes on a really good streak. Although he's already taken away quite a few plays this season.

[BrandoFan]

And Jason....that article is right on the money -- their approach is that of critical thinkers, not the usual popularity lemmings who reward Renteria with a GG over Gonzalez.

[Chisoxfn]

I agree with you. I also think Itzuris has tremendous range. You can count the 2 or 3 errors Jose makes above an average shortstop, but I think you can count a whole lot more balls that Jose gets to that an average shortstop doesn't or the DP's he helps turn that almost no other team would turn.

[BrandoFan]

I agree with you.  I also think Itzuris has tremendous range.  You can count the 2 or 3 errors Jose makes above an average shortstop, but I think you can count a whole lot more balls that Jose gets to that an average shortstop doesn't or the DP's he helps turn that almost no other team would turn.

The article makes another brilliant point about range in general: you do NOT judge it by the amount of acrobatic plays a SS makes -- nobody made more high-light reels than Carlos Lee last year, but he is average at best defensively.

 

A true range requires agility and quickness, but mostly it takes positioning, anticipation, reading the ball off the bat and not being afraid to make a throw on a play an average SS just sticks in his pocket for fear of getting an error.

 

It's not all that evident if you only watch one game, but over 160 games, it accumulates, and guys with an above-average range, arm and willingness to make a risky throw others wouldn't, save anywhere from 10 to 25 bases.

[BrandoFan]

I'm not saying that Maggs is as good as Vlad. I'm just saying that the difference isn't big enough to say that Maggs isn't worth close to Vlad money

 

Last time I checked, 12-13 Mill is pretty close to 14-15, no?

 

But you have to realize this reality too: Yankees can pay Magglio 100 Mill a year and still field a good team. While the Sox will be lucky if they could squeeze 60 over 5 into their budget and stay competitive.

[Chisoxfn]

You know whose freaking sick..speaking of range is the A's second baseman, Spattaro. Earlier this week he made what has to be the play of th year (threw the ball with his mit like 10 feet across to Crosby who barehanded it and they turned a DP). Last night he made two fantastic plays and another very good play and is hitting in the mid to upper .300's thus far.

 

I don't know who the heck he was before this year, but the A's have found themselves a heck of a middle infield combo in Crosby/Spattaro (I may have his name wrong).

[Xero]

Vlad is way better than Maggs, but really, Magglio basically carries this team so Reinsdork just cough up the extra dough if you want a winning team.

[Reddy]

along those lines i was watching a mets game and kazuo matsui can take up the middle singles away from guys with ease. it's amazing

[BrandoFan]

the A's have found themselves a heck of a middle infield combo in Crosby/Spattaro (I may have his name wrong).

 

You make anbother relevant point: A's could have paid the overrated Tejada a ton of dough, but they chose to go with Crosby.

 

They are in 1st place and because of they switch now have the money to get a huge bat at half the cost at the break and make a WS push.. They'll be more than ok.

[Chisoxfn]

You make anbother relevant point:  A's could have paid the overrated Tejada a ton of dough, but they chose to go with Crosby.

 

They are in 1st place and have the money to get a huge bat at half  the cost at the break. They'll be more than ok.

They also have Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Redman and Harden...makes things just a bit easier. And of course Chavez and Jermaine Dye (the rejuvanated and healthy Dye).

 

But point is well taken.

[BrandoFan]

They also have Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Redman and Harden...makes things just a bit easier.  And of course Chavez and Jermaine Dye (the rejuvanated and healthy Dye). 

 

But point is well taken.

No serisouly, in 2 years, Crosby is gonna come pretty close to Tejada's value, but at 12 Mill less.

 

Do you know what you could get for 12 Mill around July 30th? Holladay, Giles, Urbina AND Randy Johnson.

 

Blows one's mind, doesn't it?

[Chisoxfn]

Ya, when teams can pick up salary you can get guys. However, I don't think Roy is going anywhere. And if he is, I don't even want to think of what it will cost whatever team. He has a pretty affordable contract if I recall.

 

I wouldn't want Randy Johnson, I really believe he is done and his contract is awful.

[BrandoFan]

Ya, when teams can pick up salary you can get guys.  However, I don't think Roy is going anywhere.  And if he is, I don't even want to think of what it will cost whatever team.  He has a pretty affordable contract if I recall. 

 

I wouldn't want Randy Johnson, I really believe he is done and his contract is awful.

That's not the point.

 

What I wanted to convey is this: with 2 months to go, an extra 12 Mill saved on Tejada-Crosby switch (or 8 Mill saved on Konerko-Gload switch, etc) could buy you a s***LOAD of talent, provided you throw some nice prospects in.

 

A's might just make the playoffs without Tejada, but with monsters like Brian Giles, Edmonds and Halladay (or similar guys who are usually available from non-contending teams), you can do some SERIOUS f***ing damage in the playoffs, which you couldn't with choker Tejada.

 

300K + ok prospects = Alomar, Everett.

 

Can you imagine what you can do with 12 Mill and better prospects....Holy s***.

[Chisoxfn]

Well Kenny's approach last season was buy then, although he wasn't willing to add payroll. If you are willing to add the payroll, you don't have to give up much anything prospect wise.