ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!!!

[israel4ever]

And asking for Apaches to attack a funeral isn't incindeary?

Israel is at war with these "people"...in a war, you have to take out your enemies if/when/where you can!

[Gene Honda Civic]

Israel is at war with these "people"...in a war, you have to take out your enemies if/when/where you can!

believe it or not thier are rules to war too..

 

Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War

[israel4ever]

believe it or not thier are rules to war too..

 

Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War

I understand that.

 

I also understand that Israel is at war with an enemy(ies) who hide amongst their civilian population, behind women and children. The "palis" have chosen to fight a guerilla war.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

believe it or not thier are rules to war too..

 

Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War

How many times do I have to repeat this. Civillians are not deliberatley targeted. If Isreal wanted to kill every pali on the Gaza Strip they could do it in a few days with little trouble. :banghead

[southsider2k5]

How many times do I have to repeat this.  Civillians are not deliberatley targeted.  If Isreal wanted to kill every pali on the Gaza Strip they could do it in a few days with little trouble. :banghead

A few days nothing. This was in the Trib yesterday.

 

Eighteen years after he was kidnapped by Mossad agents and imprisoned for exposing Israel's nuclear program, Mordechai Vanunu is to go free this week, raising Israel's fears of unwelcome attention on its "bomb in the basement."

 

In remarks broadcast Monday, Vanunu, 50, said he has no more secrets to reveal and that he would like to see Israel's nuclear reactor destroyed.

 

 

 

 

The audiotape of a conversation in prison between Vanunu and Shin Bet security agents marked the first time Israelis heard him explain his actions. Vanunu's brother said Monday the prisoner didn't know his remarks would be published.

 

Anti-nuclear crusaders were flying in from Europe and the United States for his release Wednesday, but they won't be able to embrace their hero. The security services have barred Vanunu from speaking to foreigners, traveling abroad or approaching foreign embassies for fear he might seek asylum.

 

Vanunu's campaign began in 1986, when he gave The Sunday Times of London a description and photographs of Israel's Dimona reactor, where he worked. Based on his account, experts at the time said Israel had the world's sixth-largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. The revelations undercut Israel's policy of "nuclear ambiguity."

 

There is little sympathy for Vanunu in Israel, a country where just about everything is debated openly--except nuclear weapons. The phrase "bomb in the basement" has been frequently used to describe Israel's secret nuclear program.

 

Vanunu was snatched from Rome by the Mossad after being lured into a rendezvous by a female agent. He was smuggled to Israel by yacht, tried behind closed doors and sentenced to 18 years for treason.

[israel4ever]

And...?

[EvilMonkey]

Israel was born by many of the world's countries. Sadly, it could be destroyed just as easily. No one can withstand the onslaught of the entire world. Like it or not, if the world leaves Israel to its own, it will not last.

Israel is already by itself, except for the US. Even the UN, which formed Isreal, is against it. You have resolution after resolution condemning Israeli attacks against the terrorists, but never hear a peep about all the suicide bombers. How about the UN cutting off the funding to the PLO and Yassar? He hasn't done a thing to control the terrorists, why is the UN funding him and the PLO?

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Israel is already by itself, except for the US.  Even the UN, which formed Isreal, is against it.  You have resolution after resolution condemning Israeli attacks against the terrorists, but never hear a peep about all the suicide bombers.  How about the UN cutting off the funding to the PLO and Yassar?  He hasn't done a thing to control the terrorists, why is the UN funding him and the PLO?

Newsflash, shortie. The US funds the PLO as well. And hey, when you kinda sorta steal a person's land, occupy their country illegally, kill children with missiles and running them over with tanks, use F-16s to combat rock throwing kids...yeah that tends to come under the scope of the international community as a bit of overkill. Perhaps if you educated yourself as to what is going on in the region re: body counts, you'd see that a vastly disproportionate amount of Palestinian civilians are being harmed compared to Israelis.

 

But the land grabbing occupying power Israelis are the good guys, right?

[LowerCaseRepublican]

And...?

And....?

 

Israel had a nuke program and didn't feel the need to discuss it's capabilities to have a WMD with the rest of the world. Seeing how there was a crazy blood soaked tyrant in Iraq who supposedly hid WMD from the UN and the US...wouldn't it make sense for the US to invade this blood soaked butcher (Ariel Sharon...and he is a butcher, research Sabra and Shatila war crimes he committed) as well. I mean, if we are really worried about WMD and all.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

How many times do I have to repeat this.  Civillians are not deliberatley targeted.  If Isreal wanted to kill every pali on the Gaza Strip they could do it in a few days with little trouble. :banghead

They might not be targets but that doesn't lessen the anger and outrage that people have when they gotta pick their kid up in a plastic bag. Let's say a military operation blew up your home and killed your family. Oops. Collateral damage, we didn't mean to. Seem kinda hollow to you too?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Israel is already by itself, except for the US.  Even the UN, which formed Isreal, is against it.  You have resolution after resolution condemning Israeli attacks against the terrorists, but never hear a peep about all the suicide bombers.  How about the UN cutting off the funding to the PLO and Yassar?  He hasn't done a thing to control the terrorists, why is the UN funding him and the PLO?

are you sure the UN helped create them? Cuz i dont think so. Apu, do you know? I thought it was the British that were the leaders of it and was there even a UN then?

[cwsox]

are you sure the UN helped create them? Cuz i dont think so. Apu, do you know? I thought it was the British that were the leaders of it and was there even a UN then?

your information is totally wrong.

 

I am not doing your homework for you

 

but study the Balfour Declaration, what it was, what it was not, and then review the origins of the state of Israel including the UN actions in 1947 and 1948 and especially note Truman's struggle to make a decision

 

check with the official Israeli history of the state of history, and get their version of when the state of Israel was founded, based on what, and what date is their "anniversary" date.

 

Apu you will find is exactly right.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

your information is totally wrong.

 

I am not doing your homework for you

 

but study the Balfour Declaration, what it was, what it was not, and then review the origins of the state of Israel including the UN actions in 1947 and 1948 and especially note Truman's struggle to make a decision

 

check with the official Israeli history of the state of history, and get their version of when the state of Israel was founded, based on what, and what date is their "anniversary" date.

 

Apu you will find is exactly right.

1) where did i say Apu was wrong?

2) it's not "homework" it was a legit question cuz i thought otherwise

3) i've heard of the Balfour Declaration but frankly i dont give two s***s about it so i havent taken any classes on any modern stuff since high school, so i was thinking this was about 20 years earlier

 

Which is why i ASKED, implying i may be wrong. No need for the friggin superiority attitude. But what's new right?

[Texsox]

Using 4E's numbers

 

One of the 30% of Palistinians who just wants peace and hasn't yet developed a hatred for Isreal is driving down a highway to attending his daughter's fotball game. Unfortunatly, at the same time, a Hamas leader decides to use that same stretch of highway. Israel helicopters launch missles into the Hamas leaders car, delighting 4E and Nuke who jump up, cheer, yell, toast, and delight in the bastard dying. But the person in the other car is just as dead. He is "collateral damage". A nice way of saying his life wasn't worth living, if a Hamas leader could be killed.

 

Two days later, his widow and two children are trying to make sense of it, why someone who wanted peace, who never voted for these Hamas, has been taken away. They plan a quiet funeral for just their family and curse the Hamas and the Israeli missle that killed him.

 

Hamas sees this a perfect time to recruit new mercenaries. Hamas learns when and where the funeral shall be and send over fanatics to wave AK-47s in the air and shout death to the people who did this to you!

 

Now, 4E believes the "collateral damage's" children must be killed at their father's funeral. They are powerless against Hamas. They have even less than Hamas. They have no guns to chase Hamas away. But 4E is in charge, and he orders an attack on the funeral. So the helicopters roll in and the grieving children are killed also.

 

And 4E and Nuke cheer and toast each others. They shout we killed the bastards at their own funeral! Nuke explains how "collateral damage" is ok and 4E explains the children probably weren't innocent anyways. Maybe make a few jokes. 4E can feel like a real man, safe in his home in Chicago.

 

And then the percentage of Palistinians who think Israel is bloodthirsty goes up by a few more. And another 12 year old decides that Israel must be stopped at all costs, certainly before his mother is killed. And he kisses his mother good-bye, walks to a Hamas hideout, straps on a bomb, and climbs on a crowded bus in Israel . . .

[cwsox]

No need for the friggin superiority attitude. But what's new right?

I resent that deeply.

 

There is no superiority, none.

 

I wonder when someone states (or "suggests") someone else is wrong on a matter of fact (not opinion, fact) and doesn't take a few minutes on line to look up the information.

 

Israel was created by the UN. Pure fact.

 

You said

are you sure the UN helped create them? Cuz i dont think so. Apu, do you know? I thought it was the British that were the leaders of it and was there even a UN then?

 

Apu is sure. Your thinking is wrong. Yes Apu knows. Last sentence, 1st clause, because of the Balfour Declaration, they had a stake; second clause, your guessing is wrong.

 

a few minutes searching on google could have told you all that.

 

I wonder why things can't be looked up before the implication is tossed that someone else is wrong. That is not arrogance, that is just wonder.

 

And I apologise for anything that seemed arrogant to you for it was not meant that way. No offense was intended.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Israel is at war with these "people"...in a war, you have to take out your enemies if/when/where you can!

If Osama Bin Laden was dumb enough to attend a funeral and stand out there in the open I'd plaster the whole place with every aircraft I had on station. Isreal is in the same boat as we are and I4E is right. Opportunities to take out the leadership of your arch enemy do not present themselves often.

[israel4ever]

If Osama Bin Laden was dumb enough to attend a funeral and stand out there in the open I'd plaster the whole place with every aircraft I had on station.  Isreal is in the same boat as we are and I4E is right.  Opportunities to take out the leadership of your arch enemy do not present themselves often.

Some people are so naive (ignorant) it's sick!

 

They think that Rantisi (or Bin Laden) cared enough about his people that he wouldn't hide amongst (behind) them. If these people gave a rat's ass about theor people, they would do their terrorist acts themselves; not send others to do it for them!

[israel4ever]

Hey Nuke...check out

 

www.aggressive-voice.com/zz623.html

 

 

Everyone else should check it out too!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Some people are so naive (ignorant) it's sick!

 

They think that Rantisi (or Bin Laden) cared enough about his people that he wouldn't hide amongst (behind) them. If these people gave a rat's ass about theor people, they would do their terrorist acts themselves; not send others to do it for them!

I never accused radical islamists of being very bright but this is another example from Fallujah.

 

 

For that reason, General Conway said, the marines are poised to spend tens of millions of dollars on public works that would employ hundreds, perhaps thousands of residents. "But we can't do that," he said, "when you can't go into downtown and have a meeting for more than 45 minutes without getting shot at."

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I resent that deeply.

 

There is no superiority, none.

 

I wonder when someone states (or "suggests") someone else is wrong on a matter of fact (not opinion, fact) and doesn't take a few minutes on line to look up the information.

 

Israel was created by the UN.  Pure fact. 

 

You said

 

Apu is sure.  Your thinking is wrong.  Yes Apu knows.  Last sentence, 1st clause, because of the Balfour Declaration, they had a stake; second clause, your guessing is wrong.

 

a few minutes searching on google could have told you all that.

 

I wonder why things can't be looked up before the implication is tossed that someone else is wrong.  That is not arrogance, that is just wonder.

 

And I apologise for anything that seemed arrogant to you for it was not meant that way.  No offense was intended.

i was responding to what the evil monkey guy said, not apu, which is why i asked apu if it was right. I havent studied the World Wars since high school and i could have sworn the Israeli creation occured between the two. Obviously, i was wrong, which is why i asked. By the "homework" comment, to me, it had a negative implication, and that is the second time in short time you have responded to me in a similar way. You say it wasnt intended, ok fine, i'm sorry. But thats the way it came across. And, i would have searched on google but for the past week my computer has been running extremely slow, and jobs that used to take 2 minutes now take about 10 (only a few regular sites i visit i'm not having problems with). So, at the time, i didnt feel like spending ten minutes or care enough to check. Plus, i figured there'd be a good chance someone would see it and respond anyways.

[EvilMonkey]

Newsflash, shortie.  The US funds the PLO as well.  And hey, when you kinda sorta steal a person's land, occupy their country illegally, kill children with missiles and running them over with tanks, use F-16s to combat rock throwing kids...yeah that tends to come under the scope of the international community as a bit of overkill.  Perhaps if you educated yourself as to what is going on in the region re: body counts, you'd see that a vastly disproportionate amount of Palestinian civilians are being harmed compared to Israelis.

 

But the land grabbing occupying power Israelis are the good guys, right? 

So you are saying that there are more Palastinian 'innocents' killed than there are israeli civilians killed? What world do you live in? A few people dying in 'collateral damage' during a missle strike on a Hamas target is nothing compared to a suicide bomber walking into a deli or a disco and blowing themselves, and everyone else, up. If they hate Disco, there are better ways to stop the music.

 

As for the overkill aspect, what would you have soldiers do when they are attacked? Rocks can kill, and all it takes is for one person among the rock throwers to have a grenade. If you throw rocks or otherwise attack ARMED SOLDIERS, you should expect to be shot at.

 

There are probably very few 'retirement' communities in the Palastinian communities, so I doubt very many people were alive during the 'land grab'. Most of them were born where they currently are now, so why do they want the right to 'return'? These people are incorrectly labeled 'refugees', which is why the 'problem' seems worse than it is.

 

How's this for a solution? Give Israel the Gaza Strip, remove all the settlements in West Bank, give that to the Palastinians, let Israel put up it's security fence/wall, and have an international team police the Holy City, so neither side can claim it as solely theirs. Temporary? maybe. Will it work? Well, nothing else has so far, so odds are not good, but you never know. but maybe with something like that, the Palastinians can actually start to DO something, like create an economy, where they make something other than suicide bombers. Maybe.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

So you are saying that there are more Palastinian 'innocents' killed than there are israeli civilians killed?  What world do you live in?    A few people dying in 'collateral damage' during a missle strike on a Hamas target is nothing compared to a suicide bomber walking into a deli or a disco and blowing themselves, and everyone else, up.  If they hate Disco, there are better ways to stop the music. 

 

As for the overkill aspect, what would you have soldiers do when they are attacked?  Rocks can kill, and all it takes is for one person among the rock throwers to have a grenade.  If you throw rocks or otherwise attack ARMED SOLDIERS, you should expect to be shot at. 

 

There are probably very few 'retirement' communities in the Palastinian communities, so I doubt very many people were alive during the 'land grab'.  Most of them were born where they currently are now, so why do they want the right to 'return'?  These people are incorrectly labeled 'refugees', which is why the 'problem' seems worse than it is. 

 

How's this for a solution?  Give Israel the Gaza Strip, remove all the settlements in West Bank, give that to the Palastinians, let Israel put up it's security fence/wall, and have an international team police the Holy City, so neither side can claim it as solely theirs.  Temporary?  maybe.  Will it work?  Well, nothing else has so far, so odds are not good, but you never know.  but maybe with something like that, the Palastinians can actually start to DO something, like create an economy, where they make something other than suicide bombers.  Maybe.

Read the casualty reports from the IDF and the Red Crescent (aka Red Cross in that region) It's vastly disproportionate.

 

 

 

 

Where were your facts again? Oh yeah...just guesses made because the US media doesn't cover Israel running over people with tanks, attacking schools, snipers shooting children etc. And if you're in a f***ing tank...a rock is not going to kill you. But whatever justification you can make in your mind to have a sniper shoot an 8 year old child...go for it.

 

It's difficult to create an economy when your job is located past the checkpoint and IDF troops don't let you get to your job because they harass you for hours. They've done it to expectant mothers too. Or having Israel constantly level and buildings you do make be they "collateral damage" or not. Check out Ran HaCaren's columns for a lot more info. He's a Jew living and teaching in Tel Aviv and vastly against Zionism because it's destroying Israel.

 

Here's a fun chart from an Israeli group B'Tselem

 

 

For example, it turns out that over 80 Palestinian children, many shot in the head, were killed BEFORE the first Israeli child died. At least 127 Palestinians were killed before the first Jewish Israeli lost his life on Israeli land. (The Palestine Red Crescent Society, a very reliable medical organization gives this number as 147, but in the interest of using the same source for Israelis and Palestinians, we are using the more conservative numbers provided by the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem.) During the first month 121 Palestinians and 11 Israelis — virtually all either illegal settlers or soldiers on Palestinian territory — were killed.

 

Included in the number of Palestinian dead are three Palestinian women and girls who died due to restrictions placed on their movement by the Israeli military:

 

Ten-year old ’Ala Hamdan ’Abd al-’Aziz Ahmad died when her appendix burst after Israeli soldiers prevented her father from taking her to a hospital.

Twenty-seven-year-old Na’im ’Attallah a-’Abd Ahmad Huas, a liver patient, died after Israeli soldiers prevented her from obtaining dialysis treatment at a hospital in Nablus.

 

Masiona Hussein, age 60, a diabetes patient, died after being forced to travel to

the hospital along treacherous paths because of physical roadblocks placed on the main roadways by Israeli forces.

 

In addition, an important fact often left out of U.S. reports is that in this war the Israeli side is armed with high-tech, high-cost weaponry: a large arsenal of nuclear weapons, F-16s, helicopter gunships, top-of-the line tanks, sniper scopes, the best helmets and personal safety gear money can buy. Palestinians, on the other hand, whose land has been invaded by Israel (this fact is also usually omitted) are largely unarmed. Some have a small supply of rifles, handguns, and home-made mortars; very few have uniforms, helmets, etc.

 

For Israel it is, basically, a turkey shoot. The only “weapon” that Israel fears is that tragic result of such an unequal conflict: the suicide bomber.

 

One other critical fact that is also consistently omitted from U.S. coverage is the local connection: Israel’s power comes from the over $10 million per day that American taxpayers give it. This is more aid than goes to any other nation on earth. In fact, Israel, with a population of 6 million, receives more US tax dollars than all of Sub-Saharan Africa put together.

 

Let's not condemn people like Baruch Goldstein...nah, where would the fun in that be right? Israel Uber Alles, right? Actually a lot of people were and are alive. They do have a right to return to their land. Your argument that "It took place in the past so they have no right." is goddamn moronic. Cuz that could be turned on its head and say "Yeah, well the Jews had it in the past so they have no right to get the land either." See how terrible the argument you made is?

[israel4ever]

So you are saying that there are more Palastinian 'innocents' killed than there are israeli civilians killed?  What world do you live in?    A few people dying in 'collateral damage' during a missle strike on a Hamas target is nothing compared to a suicide bomber walking into a deli or a disco and blowing themselves, and everyone else, up.  If they hate Disco, there are better ways to stop the music. 

 

As for the overkill aspect, what would you have soldiers do when they are attacked?  Rocks can kill, and all it takes is for one person among the rock throwers to have a grenade.  If you throw rocks or otherwise attack ARMED SOLDIERS, you should expect to be shot at. 

 

There are probably very few 'retirement' communities in the Palastinian communities, so I doubt very many people were alive during the 'land grab'.  Most of them were born where they currently are now, so why do they want the right to 'return'?  These people are incorrectly labeled 'refugees', which is why the 'problem' seems worse than it is. 

 

How's this for a solution?  Give Israel the Gaza Strip, remove all the settlements in West Bank, give that to the Palastinians, let Israel put up it's security fence/wall, and have an international team police the Holy City, so neither side can claim it as solely theirs.  Temporary?  maybe.  Will it work?  Well, nothing else has so far, so odds are not good, but you never know.  but maybe with something like that, the Palastinians can actually start to DO something, like create an economy, where they make something other than suicide bombers.  Maybe.

Right on, Evil Monkey!!!

[israel4ever]

Read the casualty reports from the IDF and the Red Crescent (aka Red Cross in that region)  It's vastly disproportionate.

 

 

 

 

Where were your facts again?  Oh yeah...just guesses made because the US media doesn't cover Israel running over people with tanks, attacking schools, snipers shooting children etc.  And if you're in a f***ing tank...a rock is not going to kill you.  But whatever justification you can make in your mind to have a sniper shoot an 8 year old child...go for it.

 

It's difficult to create an economy when your job is located past the checkpoint and IDF troops don't let you get to your job because they harass you for hours.  They've done it to expectant mothers too.  Or having Israel constantly level and buildings you do make be they "collateral damage" or not. Check out Ran HaCaren's columns for a lot more info.  He's a Jew living and teaching in Tel Aviv and vastly against Zionism because it's destroying Israel.

 

Here's a fun chart from an Israeli group B'Tselem

 

 

For example, it turns out that over 80 Palestinian children, many shot in the head, were killed BEFORE the first Israeli child died. At least 127 Palestinians were killed before the first Jewish Israeli lost his life on Israeli land. (The Palestine Red Crescent Society, a very reliable medical organization gives this number as 147, but in the interest of using the same source for Israelis and Palestinians, we are using the more conservative numbers provided by the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem.) During the first month 121 Palestinians and 11 Israelis — virtually all either illegal settlers or soldiers on Palestinian territory — were killed.

 

Included in the number of Palestinian dead are three Palestinian women and girls who died due to restrictions placed on their movement by the Israeli military:

 

Ten-year old ’Ala Hamdan ’Abd al-’Aziz Ahmad died when her appendix burst after Israeli soldiers prevented her father from taking her to a hospital.

Twenty-seven-year-old Na’im ’Attallah a-’Abd Ahmad Huas, a liver patient, died after Israeli soldiers prevented her from obtaining dialysis treatment at a hospital in Nablus.

 

Masiona Hussein, age 60, a diabetes patient, died after being forced to travel to

the hospital along treacherous paths because of physical roadblocks placed on the main roadways by Israeli forces.

 

In addition, an important fact often left out of U.S. reports is that in this war the Israeli side is armed with high-tech, high-cost weaponry: a large arsenal of nuclear weapons, F-16s, helicopter gunships, top-of-the line tanks, sniper scopes, the best helmets and personal safety gear money can buy. Palestinians, on the other hand, whose land has been invaded by Israel (this fact is also usually omitted) are largely unarmed. Some have a small supply of rifles, handguns, and home-made mortars; very few have uniforms, helmets, etc.

 

For Israel it is, basically, a turkey shoot. The only “weapon” that Israel fears is that tragic result of such an unequal conflict: the suicide bomber.

 

One other critical fact that is also consistently omitted from U.S. coverage is the local connection: Israel’s power comes from the over $10 million per day that American taxpayers give it. This is more aid than goes to any other nation on earth. In fact, Israel, with a population of 6 million, receives more US tax dollars than all of Sub-Saharan Africa put together.

 

Let's not condemn people like Baruch Goldstein...nah, where would the fun in that be right?  Israel Uber Alles, right?  Actually a lot of people were and are alive.  They do have a right to return to their land. Your argument that "It took place in the past so they have no right." is goddamn moronic.  Cuz that could be turned on its head and say "Yeah, well the Jews had it in the past so they have no right to get the land either."  See how terrible the argument you made is?

All these quotes and figures "statistics" are complet bulls***!

 

What are your sources? The Red Crescent??? Why don't you get your "facts" straight from Arafat?

[israel4ever]

"Pali" children get shot because "pali" gunmen use them as shields!!!