sox4lifeinPA Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 With all the discussion surrounding the missing student and Christian's responsibility to forgive, what are people's thoughts on the current prison system? If anyone were to harm miss sox4life, I'd want blood at first. The man who most likely killed Dru, was a convicted sex offender. That blows my mind. I feel so much sorrow for that family. I'm definitely in favor of the death penalty, sometimes people just need to be removed from society permanently.... proper like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I definitely think some people are beyond rehabilitation. Bundy, the Hillside Stranglers and Gacy are a few that come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I think that the main pupose of our penal system should be to protect the residents of the US, not to rehabilitate the inmates. In the US, we seem to value the rights of evil-doers as much, if not more than those of the victims and/or the innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i am 100% against the death penalty, and i believe in imprisonment up until they are rehabilitated. This weekend i learned a good friend of mine beat his former girlfriend, with whom i am beginning a friendship. Violence is terrible, but i can't help wanting to really hurt this guy. So it is hard for me to say i want humane treatment for criminals, when i myself want to really hurt one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i am 100% against the death penalty, and i believe in imprisonment up until they are rehabilitated. This weekend i learned a good friend of mine beat his former girlfriend, with whom i am beginning a friendship. Violence is terrible, but i can't help wanting to really hurt this guy. So it is hard for me to say i want humane treatment for criminals, when i myself want to really hurt one. I suggest reading either a bio on the hillside stranglers or Ted Bundy. You may not have the same opinion on the death penalty after reading them. I did say 'may' because it may not affect you the way it did me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 forgiveness doesn't mean we should continue to be victims. Some people should never be set free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 forgiveness doesn't mean we should continue to be victims. Some people should never be set free. Thank you Tex, that was exactly how I was feeling. Personally, from studying the New Testament I cannot find any sort of support for the death penalty. My heart goes out to the Sjodin family, and I imagine the hurt, grief, pain and anger will live on for a long time with them--and they will find themselves surprised at benign events that make them question their faith, their forgiveness, and the purpose of their lives. I have never had a close loved one be murdered, but there are some "sins" (if you want to call them that) that murder aspects of ourselves and that people have to live with for the rest of their lives. I have seen and felt the ramifications of those acts in my life and those of my friends. I could never ask for a human life--nor accept one to be taken on my behalf to reconcile some wrong done to me. Violence will not save anyone from the pain they feel--it is a temporary fix. Lock up predatory people who feed on innocent lives, but taking a life only says that violence will save us from violence. And that's something I don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Hmmm......commit a violent crime, get sent to prision, get three square meals a day, cable TV, a job, free education, plenty of free time to find God, write poetry, etc....I think everyone should deserve to go to prision. :fyou I believe if you commit a crime against another person (murder, rape, molestation, beating, etc.) you lose any right to live in a free society and should be put to death or sent to prision with nothing in your cell but you and your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAVVY18 Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I like how they handle things in some of the 3rd world countries. If you steal...you lose your hand. If you steal again...you lose your other hand...again, there goes a foot. If you rape...there goes your dick. Murder someone...bye bye. None of this 15 years of appeals...you get 15 minutes to kiss your ass goodbye. Prisons aren't like club med over there. They are there to punish. That is a deterrent, not the crap we have here. Ever see Papillion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I like how they handle things in some of the 3rd world countries. If you steal...you lose your hand. If you steal again...you lose your other hand...again, there goes a foot. If you rape...there goes your dick. Murder someone...bye bye. None of this 15 years of appeals...you get 15 minutes to kiss your ass goodbye. Prisons aren't like club med over there. They are there to punish. That is a deterrent, not the crap we have here. Ever see Papillion? i believe in thailand (not quite for sure if its thailand but i know it's a smaller asian country) if you are convicted of murder they take you out back and shoot you and your family has to pay for the bullet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i believe in thailand (not quite for sure if its thailand but i know it's a smaller asian country) if you are convicted of murder they take you out back and shoot you and your family has to pay for the bullet... China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 im against the DP because the current system sucks, not because im against killing some f***s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 China well, i missed the boat on small asian country... my old tae kwon do sensai's wife is thai and he goes there all the time. i could swear he said it happens there too but i've never really found any proof for it or against it, so its just his word for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Thank you Tex, that was exactly how I was feeling. Personally, from studying the New Testament I cannot find any sort of support for the death penalty. My heart goes out to the Sjodin family, and I imagine the hurt, grief, pain and anger will live on for a long time with them--and they will find themselves surprised at benign events that make them question their faith, their forgiveness, and the purpose of their lives. I have never had a close loved one be murdered, but there are some "sins" (if you want to call them that) that murder aspects of ourselves and that people have to live with for the rest of their lives. I have seen and felt the ramifications of those acts in my life and those of my friends. I could never ask for a human life--nor accept one to be taken on my behalf to reconcile some wrong done to me. Violence will not save anyone from the pain they feel--it is a temporary fix. Lock up predatory people who feed on innocent lives, but taking a life only says that violence will save us from violence. And that's something I don't understand. The Bible is filled with parables and meaning that needs to be dug out from a personal perspective. What is plain to me is, Thou shall not kill. 1. Our system is not perfect. (OJ free) 2. Innocent people are convicted and later found innocent 3. Only God should have that power, not the government. CW wrote a couple days ago that an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted April 19, 2004 Author Share Posted April 19, 2004 I agree that our current system is full of crap public defenders and crooked individuals (see: why I have a disdain for police officers), but I have to say that people like timothy mcveigh deserve to be put out of their misery. I agree with the "crimes against the innocent" sentiment, and individuals that never learned that rape, murder, or abuse will never learn... keep 'em locked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I am opposed to the death penalty because I do not believe that the state can say "murder is wrong" yet condone sanctioned murders. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf has a lot of info. Like Albert Camus said "Capital punishment is the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal's deed, however calculated can be compared. For there to be an equivalency, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life." To perpetrate an execution at the hands of the state government is the supreme hypocricy. For a government to say that individuals taking life is illegal and morally bankrupt, then shouldn't this stand for the government as well? If they believe in the sanctity of life, then shouldn't it stand to reason that the state cannot violate such sanctity if it expects its people to do the same? Aside from the philosophical debate about capital punishment, there are plenty of practical reasons to oppose state sanctioned murder. As Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall stated: "The death penalty is no more effective a deterrent than life imprisonment...It is also evident that the burden of capital punishment falls upon the poor, the ignorant, and the underprivileged members of society." In the United States, the death penalty is often promoted as a way to deter violence and make society safer. Yet scientific studies have consistently failed to find convincing evidence that executions deter crime more effectively than alternative sentences. Not only is it not a deterrent but capital punishment is more expensive. Death penalty cases are much more expensive than other criminal cases and cost more than imprisonment for life with no possibility of parole. In California, capital trials are six times more costly than other murder trials. A study in Kansas indicated that a capital trial costs $116,700 more than an ordinary murder trial. Complex pre-trial motions, lengthy jury selections, and expenses for expert witnesses are all likely to add to the costs in death penalty cases. The irreversibility of the death sentence requires courts to follow heightened due process in the preparation and course of the trial. The separate sentencing phase of the trial can take even longer than the guilt or innocence phase of the trial. And defendants are much more likely to insist on a trial when they are facing a possible death sentence. After conviction, there are constitutionally mandated appeals which involve both prosecution and defense costs. Most of these costs occur in every case for which capital punishment is sought, regardless of the outcome. Thus, the true cost of the death penalty includes all the added expenses of the "unsuccessful" trials in which the death penalty is sought but not achieved. Moreover, if a defendant is convicted but not given the death sentence, the state will still incur the costs of life imprisonment, in addition to the increased trial expenses. For the states which employ the death penalty, this luxury comes at a high price. In Texas, a death penalty case costs taxpayers an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. In Florida, each execution is costing the state $3.2 million. In financially strapped California, one report estimated that the state could save $90 million each year by abolishing capital punishment. The New York Department of Correctional Services estimated that implementing the death penalty would cost the state about $118 million annually. A recent study of death sentences in Philadelphia found that African American defendents were almost FOUR times more likely to receive the death penalty than were people of other ethnic origins who committed similar crimes. Over 80% of people executed since 1976 were convicted of killing white victims, although people of color make up more than half of all homicide victims in the US. A defendant who can afford his or her own attorney is much less likely to be sentenced to die. 95% of all people sentenced to death in the US could not afford their own attorney. In 1987, McCleskey v. Kemp, a Supreme Court case brought forth the famous Baldus study that revealed facts that proved the following: "(1) defendants charged with killing white victims in GA are 4.3 times as likely to be sentenced to death as defendants charged with killing blacks; (2) 6 of every 11 defendants convicted of killing a white person would not have received the death penalty if their victim had been black; and (3) cases involving black defendants and white victims are more likely to result in a death sentence than cases featuring any other racial combination of defendant and victim. This case was defeated by a 5-4 vote given the reason by Justice Powell: "McCleskey's claim, taken to its logical conclusion, throws into serious question the principles that underlie our entire criminal justice system." How true. McCleskey can't be correct or else the whole system would be incorrect. God forbid we fix it instead of allowing the incredibly biased and flawed system to murder more people. 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Texsox Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Thank you APU. Well written. But revenge is sweet, and some people want blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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