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The Continuing Decline & Fall of Mark Buehrle


C.Rector

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And I respect you for staying true to your opinion and stance Tex.  I think you have been the only one. :ph34r:

My opinion was Mark would have a better year and E-Lo worse and they would balance each other out. So far I think I'm close. But to not be concerned about Mark's last too seasons is crazy.

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My opinion was Mark would have a better year and E-Lo worse and they would balance each other out. So far I think I'm close. But to not be concerned about Mark's last too seasons is crazy.

Don't let the recent "fall" of ELo fool you. In two of his recent losses, he has pitched well enough to win (no offensive support) and in the other, he threw a complete game and lost.

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Don't let the recent "fall" of ELo fool you. In two of his recent losses, he has pitched well enough to win (no offensive support) and in the other, he threw a complete game and lost.

I just do not see E-Lo winning 21 games this season. Something in the 14-17 range seems more likely. I also see Mark winning 16-20, hence my prediction.

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Don't let the recent "fall" of ELo fool you. In two of his recent losses, he has pitched well enough to win (no offensive support) and in the other, he threw a complete game and lost.

I agree. And let's not all pee our pants at Mark's last 2 outings.. He did get 26 runs to back it up. Mark relaxes when he's got a lead - as I imagine most pitchers do. IMO, the more tense and close the game is, the more some pitchers make mental errors. We've all seen Mark crack under pressure a few times. While I don't agree with some of the things said early in this thread about him... I'm still not ready to call him the best thing since sliced bread. He's good. Can't argue with that.

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I just do not see E-Lo winning 21 games this season. Something in the 14-17 range seems more likely. I also see Mark winning 16-20, hence my prediction.

Me neither and I tend to agree with you. I was just pointing out that ELo could, conceivably, be 6/7-0/1 right now with just a little bit of offensive (and defensive: see Dransfeldt) support in his last 3 starts.

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I don't think anyone expected him to lose every game. I do not think his fans are expecting him to win every game. But let's see at the end of the season what happens to his stats. Of course then we can argue which stats matter.

If his ERA is up, his fans wil claim it's W-Ls that matter

If his Wins are down, his fans will point to ERA.  ;)

 

But to debate this after every start is a Soxtalk tradition, carry on  :lolhitting

I'll assume I'm being greedy, but how aboaut a W-L record AND a low ERA?? is that too much to ask for?

 

Zesty and Mark have both shown some great stuff this year. I honestly think they'll both get over 15 wins with the proper run support that should be there on a consistent basis.

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Buehrle got the standing ovation Sunday... :headbang  :headbang  :headbang

That was a class move by Ozzie -- I'm sure mark could have easily gotten the next guy out -- But he already had 115 pitches, and wasn't going to be put back ou tthere in a 11 run game -- Taking him out there gave teh fans a chance to acknowledge his perfprmace for the past tow games, otherwise he just would have been in the dugout--

 

Nice move Ozzie :headbang

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I found this interestin article on Buerhle from the Sun - Times, looks like he hasn't been usin the cutter;

 

CLEVELAND -- Mark Buehrle does not fret over potential injuries, which would help explain him passing the time during Monday's rain delay by diving onto a wet tarp at Jacobs Field.

 

It also would indicate he isn't worried about the arm strain it takes to throw a cut fastball, the pitch that has helped establish Buehrle as one of the top young, left-handed starters.

 

While Buehrle says he is aware of the talk that throwing a cut fastball for extended periods can lead to injury, that isn't the reason he is throwing fewer of them this season.

 

"That's what I was working on down there [in the bullpen] because it hasn't been as sharp as I want it to be,'' Buehrle said Tuesday. "Once I get it sharp and I have consistency throwing it like I had last year, then I'll throw it more.''

 

In his last start against the Minnesota Twins, Buehrle relied more on fastballs to the outside part of the plate because his cutter was up in the strike zone. He still threw 62/3 scoreless innings, his second consecutive scoreless outing.

 

But afterward, Buehrle admitted his strategy against the Twins.

 

"I shouldn't have said it in the paper that I'm going with my fastball away,'' he said. "Now that I'm going against Minnesota again [Friday], if they read that, they might say, 'OK, he's going with fastballs away.' I might have to throw more cutters that game.''

 

Whatever happens, he will leave it in the hands of Sandy Alomar Jr., who has caught a majority of Buehrle's games the last three seasons.

 

"Somebody said, 'What are you going to do when he leaves?' '' Buehrle said. "I said, 'He's playing for another 15 years, and he's catching just me.'

 

"It's going to suck once he retires and he's not my catcher, but he's meant a lot to me.''

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  • 2 weeks later...
Buehrle’s decline is an indication that his arm is getting progressively tired. One would think that the Sox would opt to limit Buehrle to no more than 5 innings per start or to a strict pitch limit in the 75-100 range or perhaps even place him in the bullpen in order to at least lengthen out his quality service for the team. This is especially the case since Buehrle recently signed a 3-yr. $18 Mil. in guraranteed money contract with the Sox. However, the Sox have not evinced any awareness of Buehrle’s decline and appear to have their problematic pitcher on course towards lengthened stays on the mound.

 

Up until last night's disaster at Comiskey Park vs. the Yankees, Buehrle was throwing an average 112 pitches per game.  Folks, this is Dusty Baker territory.  Unless Guillen institutes a strict pitch count on Buehrle, his decline will only continue to worsen.

:lolhitting :lolhitting :lolhitting :lolhitting

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Man this is funny stuff....

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Have some more crow, 5-1, 3.45 ERA, 57 K's....

If I were you, I'd take the gloating down a peg or two. Bad karma/luck is bound to rear its ugly head.

 

Last time Sox fans gloated, both Thomas and Jose pulled up lame in same game.

 

Mark is looking good, but let's be honest - he is still giving up too many hits. Tonight Soriano just caught the ball off the end of the bat, just missing a 3-run homer in the 1st. Texas threatened in a few more innings - who knows how things unfold if Sox didn't stake out to a quick 4-run lead? In fact, they've been giving Mark UNBELIEVABLE run support in many of his wins which is a big psychological boost.

 

If I am you, I enjoy the hell out of his 5-1 record and good ERA, but remember his 2-year trend is still a little disturbing and that it's only MAY.

 

We all know (read my reply earlier in this thread) that Mark is capable of a 3.75 ERA, which makes him a #2 on an average team. It remains to be seen if Mark can return to his 2001 ace form. I hope he does - should Sox reach postseason, he'll be starting against Vasquez or Shilling, and this back-to-back basehits s*** won't fly against the Red Sox and Yankees.

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If I were you, I'd take the gloating down a peg or two.   Bad karma/luck is bound to rear its ugly head.

 

Last time Sox fans gloated, both Thomas and Jose pulled up lame in same game.

 

Mark is looking good, but let's be honest - he is still giving up too many hits.   Tonight Soriano just caught the ball off the end of the bat, just missing a 3-run homer in the 1st.   Texas threatened in a few more innings - who knows how things unfold if Sox didn't stake out to a quick 4-run lead?   In fact, they've been giving Mark UNBELIEVABLE run support in many of his wins which is a big psychological boost.

 

If I am you, I enjoy the hell out of his 5-1 record and good ERA, but remember his 2-year trend is still a little disturbing and that it's only MAY.   

 

We all know (read my reply earlier in this thread) that Mark is capable of a 3.75 ERA, which makes him a #2 on an average team.   It remains to be seen if Mark can return to his 2001 form.   I hope he does - should Sox reach postseason, he'll be starting against Vasquez or Shilling, and this back-to-back basehits s*** won't fly against the Red Sox and Yankees.

So after he completely ripped apart Mark, we aren't allowed to ask him to eat crow after good performances...I wouldn't call it gloating, more like celebrating another stellar effort. :headbang :headbang :headbang

 

I am sure C.Rector will resurface if he has another bad game. Right now he is in witness protection. :lol:

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If I were you, I'd take the gloating down a peg or two. Bad karma/luck is bound to rear its ugly head.

 

Last time Sox fans gloated, both Thomas and Jose pulled up lame in same game.

 

Mark is looking good, but let's be honest - he is still giving up too many hits. Tonight Soriano just caught the ball off the end of the bat, just missing a 3-run homer in the 1st. Texas threatened in a few more innings - who knows how things unfold if Sox didn't stake out to a quick 4-run lead? In fact, they've been giving Mark UNBELIEVABLE run support in many of his wins which is a big psychological boost.

 

If I am you, I enjoy the hell out of his 5-1 record and good ERA, but remember his 2-year trend is still a little disturbing and that it's only MAY.   

 

We all know (read my reply earlier in this thread) that Mark is capable of a 3.75 ERA, which makes him a #2 on an average team. It remains to be seen if Mark can return to his 2001 ace form. I hope he does - should Sox reach postseason, he'll be starting against Vasquez or Shilling, and this back-to-back basehits s*** won't fly against the Red Sox and Yankees.

This is the Mark Buehrle the sox will have for the most of the year. His era should actually be much lower because of that game against the yanks where he just got blooped to death and let up 8 runs. Don't say this stuff won't fly against the yanks or bosox, the rangers are one of the best hitting teams in baseball and they didn't put anything up on him. Brando I know you really believe this sox team doesn't have an ace but Loaiza won 21 games last year and has seemed to regain his velocity from last year and Buehrle has been flat out awesome, I really believe by the end of the year these guys might be 1a and 1b. That being said I still am with you on wanting a top of the rotation starter. If the sox could get a 1, 2, or 3, then they are going to have one of the best rotations in baseball and if they did make the playoffs they'd be set up beautifully.

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So after he completely ripped apart Mark, we aren't allowed to ask him to eat crow after good performances...I wouldn't call it gloating, more like celebrating another stellar effort. :headbang  :headbang  :headbang

 

I am sure C.Rector will resurface if he has another bad game.

Corky.Rectum is a raging moron, I don't know why you bother with him.

 

As far as "celebrating", you don't see me opening threads about Valentin after 1 good game. Why? Because I know the season is young and that he has A LOT to improve upon, especially against LHP and on routine plays defensively.

 

Same with Mark. Him and Loaiza are earning that paycheck and then some. But they can definately get better - Buerhle's backdoor curveball and slider are still a bit erratic. Once he gets them going, he'll have a wholalot of new ways to set the hitter up.

 

Also Ozzie must absolutely stop allowing these pitchers to top the 100-pitch mark in blow outs. It's beyond stupid and unneccesary.

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Corky.Rectum is a raging moron, I don't know why you bother with him.

 

As far as "celebrating", you don't see me opening threads about Valentin after 1 good game.  Why? Because I know the season is young and that he has A LOT to improve upon, especially against LHP and on routine plays defensively.

 

Same with Mark. Him and Loaiza are earning that paycheck and then some.    But they can definately get better - Buerhle's backdoor curveball and slider are still a bit erratic. Once he gets them going, he'll have a wholalot of new ways to set the hitter up. 

 

Also Ozzie must absolutely stop allowing these pitchers to top the 100-pitch mark in blow outs.  It's beyond stupid and unneccesary.

Your points are well-taken Brando...But "Corky Rectum" is going to eat crow often for this, like it or not...

 

And by the way, although I am one of the biggest pornstache bashers out there, I will give him props for his recent play. If he can just eliminate all of the K's on the junk ball pitches from the lefties I think he can have a very solid season. He's looked better the past week with the glove as well as I felt he was very shaky those first few games back from Charlotte/the DL.

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Mark is looking good, but let's be honest - he is still giving up too many hits.   Tonight Soriano just caught the ball off the end of the bat, just missing a 3-run homer in the 1st.   Texas threatened in a few more innings - who knows how things unfold if Sox didn't stake out to a quick 4-run lead?   In fact, they've been giving Mark UNBELIEVABLE run support in many of his wins which is a big psychological boost.

He's giving up too many hits..........

 

Someone on the other team hit a ball to the warning track.........

 

Texas got a couple of guys on base...........

 

Jeez, will the carping never end. He just shut out one of the most potent offenses in the American Leauge & you have to find fault. I guess some people can't be satisfied. Just enjoy it will ya.

 

One more thing. It's about damn time the Sox started getting some runs for him. If the O had been supporting him consistently during his time here he'd have at least 10-15 more wins than he already has.

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